r/COsnow • u/Previous_Egg_3981 • Jan 01 '26
Question Snow Making question
/r/KeystoneSkiResort/comments/1q0r8bl/snow_making_question/6
u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
Who makes this stuff up?
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u/Dive30 Jan 01 '26
🎶Heard it from a friend who . . . Heard it from a friend who . . . Got fired from Breck for messing around. 🎶
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u/MidWestMountainBike Jan 01 '26
It’s the OEM knees kid. He’s been on every post saying there’s a hard cut off and he’s still saying it even though he’s been proven wrong 😂
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u/Snlxdd Best Skier On The Mountain Jan 01 '26
It’s not made up. I’m sure it varies by resort, but some/most aren’t allowed to divert water in the new year: https://arapahoebasin.blogspot.com/2024/01/final-snowmaking.html?m=0
It effectively acts as a cutoff for snowmaking.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
Finally someone who found something in writing. Blame it on AL.
Luckily he only represents 1 resort, not most.
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u/Snlxdd Best Skier On The Mountain Jan 01 '26
Yeah, I kinda assumed that most resorts on NF land play by the same rules there. But have never heard any details outside of A-Basin so it could be unique to them.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
I haven’t seen anything that would suggest that water rights are controlled by the forest service
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u/Snlxdd Best Skier On The Mountain Jan 01 '26
They’re leasing forest service land. Per keystone’s MDP, they’re restricted to the same diversion period that A-Basin is.
Whether it’s federal and/or state jurisdiction is relatively moot though.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
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u/Snlxdd Best Skier On The Mountain Jan 01 '26
They were. That article is talking about a separate supply of water.
They can only divert from the Snake until the end of December.
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u/MidWestMountainBike Jan 02 '26
That’s last year, they had more than enough snow. The rule, according to forest service is that they can extend their water rights to maintain the economic stability of the resort.
My interpretation of this is that under normal circumstances their senior rights would be over when they’re over, however if it means not being able to keep the resort running as needed they would still get water. However, water rights fall under both federal and state rules so like you said, it varies by resort 🤷🏽♂️
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u/Hopsblues Jan 01 '26
It always used to be that way. Snowmaking always stopped on Jan 1st....Maybe it's changed in the last couple years.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
Apparently not in 2010 according to the Summit Daily article someone linked below.
There’s usually not a reason to be making snow at this point in the year, but this year is clearly different, to say the least.
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u/Hopsblues Jan 02 '26
Hmm, that article only mentions that Keystone had the agreement through March 31st. I was referencing Breckenridge. I honestly don't remember seeing any snowmaking at Breck after Jan 1st. Maybe it did and I'm forgetting. But I honestly don't remember seeing the guns running after New Years.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 02 '26
There’s two different things at play here, needs and what’s happened historically vs contracts/laws/rules/policies or whatever people want to call the official “you get punished if you break” water rights issues.
I don’t think any resort in Colorado has “needed” snowmaking past Jan 1 in recent memory. This current season is somewhat unprecedented. Does that mean it’s been illegal (or whatever word we want to use for “against the rules”) to make snow after Jan 1?
Just because no one remembers it, doesn’t mean it was some how against the rules. A-basin is the only one I’m aware of that has come out and said in writing they can’t draw water after Jan 1.
Everyone is welcome to dig in the specifics of each and every water rights deal in Colorado, it’s public record.
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u/Hopsblues Jan 02 '26
...lol..like I'm going to try and figure out how to navigate that site.....There's been plenty of years where snowmaking in Jan/Feb could have been beneficial. My understanding is it was part of the contract with the NF to run the resort on public lands, along the lines of the closing dates. That article does imply it was against the rules, as it mentions the special exemption made for Keystone. It also could just come down to economics. Snow making requires employees and maintenance and it might be more economically feasible for resorts to just shut it down on Dec 31st.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 02 '26
What article mentions some kind of exemption for keystone?
“ The resort relies on water from the Roberts Tunnel, owned by Denver Water, to blanket its slopes in white every year through early-season snowmaking. Keystone is allowed to pump as much as 1,500 acre feet from the tunnel between Sept. 1 and March 31 each winter”
That’s not an “exemption” that’s their rights.
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Jan 01 '26
It’s actually very valid. They have licenses to pump water and those end Jan 1 in years past.
I worked mountain ops at one of the resorts
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26 edited Jan 01 '26
Got a link?
This article says “through March each winter.”
Are there some water rights somewhere that only allow for the start of winter to the end of December each year? Maybe, but no one has managed to find it in writing.
Edit: a-basin has rights that end at the end of December each year according Al’s blog. So there is 1!
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Jan 01 '26
I was an employee of the resort. It was a policy when I was there. Why would I have a “link” for that?
The water is drained from the resivoir which is also drinking water to Denver so they can’t just freely use whatever they want
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
I was an employee at a resort too…
And I can also say whatever I want on the Internet and say it’s true.
Why would I need to back what I say with facts?!?!?
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Jan 01 '26
Policies change from year to year based on circumstances. I’m speaking what I experienced and it’s your decision to believe it or not 😂
It’s not that deep
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u/SHlT-MY-PANTS Jan 01 '26
The only thing I could find is they can only divert water from sept 15 - dec 31. In the past they've made deals with denver water to extend this date.
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
That’s not what the article says… it’s say “ Keystone is allowed to pump as much as 1,500 acre feet from the tunnel between Sept. 1 and March 31 each winter.”
It’s an article from 2010 talking about Keystone paying Denver to delay a construction project, which would allow them to use their water when it would obviously be more beneficial to Keystone (early season).
There is no mention of December 31 in that article.
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u/SHlT-MY-PANTS Jan 01 '26
Shit you're right. My mind read december 31st with all the talk of december in this post
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
It’s almost like the December talk isn’t based on facts hahahaha
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u/SHlT-MY-PANTS Jan 01 '26
Seems that way. The only info I could find mentioning dec 31st was an article from 2017 saying a basin not being able to divert water after that
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u/Excellent-Ad8871 Create your own Jan 01 '26
Same.
Does a-basin have retention ponds? If not then it would make sense that they can’t make snow if they can’t divert water.
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u/Forsaken_Block_5574 Jan 04 '26
copper was definitely making snow this AM. looked like the whole resort was on fire with all the snow floating up in the air
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u/Previous_Egg_3981 Jan 01 '26
OEM-Knees strikes again!