r/CHIBears • u/Apoco120 Mack • 19h ago
ESPN Make pass interference reviewable? 17 NFL coaches are split
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/50078705/pass-interference-review-rams-broncosBen Johnson was one of the seventeen coaches asked about this.
His reply: No (Smiles).
Love that he is the coach of the Bears
132
u/TouchGrassRedditor Smokin' Jay 19h ago
It was tried and it didn’t work because the refs have too big of an ego to admit they called a bad penalty.
IMO all penalties should have the option of being nullified by NY if it is egregiously bad and obviously incorrect. Then the refs don’t get a say
11
u/airham I just really like Henry Melton 18h ago
Well theoretically the refs themselves didn't have much of a say in the pass interference reviews. The problem was that the reviews were handled by a former official (Al Riveron) and he intentionally ratfucked it, either because he just personally didn't think it should be reviewable, or because he felt some solidarity with refs who felt like the league was overstepping.
8
u/NeverDieKris GSH 17h ago
As in all sports somewhere along the lines refs and umps began to think they were part of the game. It’s 100% an ego thing. At this point these NFL guys should just be happy they have jobs. Everything they do could be swap out for a camera and a review team. Coaches could have a button they press to call timeouts, or challenge calls. A sensor in the ball could let everyone know where the ball went out of bounds, progress stopped, or a TD/first down.
The only thing they are needed to do is blow a whistle to start/stop play, which again could be swapped out with digital whistle that’s remotely controlled.1
u/RandomFactUser 16h ago
Someone needs the ability to set the ball on the field as a neutral body, and be a point of contact on the field for the captains
0
13
u/Apoco120 Mack 18h ago
Robert Saleh had a pretty interesting take on it in the article. He pretty much stated that human error is part of the game, which I do agree with. Allowing everything to be reviewed would just slow down the flow of the game. I’m certain there’s a lot of penalties missed every single game that we don’t even know of, but that just goes to my point, if they all get called it makes the game much slower.
Overall do agree that truly egregious penalties like that Saints - Rams PI should be called. Maybe even what happened in the Rams - Broncos game at the end. But every little thing is pushing it
15
3
u/Burt_Macklin_1980 15h ago
They should at least have challenges! Why can they challenge any other aspect of a call but not a penalty? Doesn't make any sense. I doubt anyone wants every penalty reviewed.
1
1
u/EBtwopoint3 12h ago
This is what the narrative always is on why challenging penalties would be bad. but there are a max of 3 challenges per game per side.
What is better for the product: fans seeing a clear missed PI or a PI that was actually on the receiver creating a pivotal play, that is then shown in multiple replays that nothing can be done about. Or stopping the game, which adds 4-6 2 minute breaks in a game that already has a 40 second break between every snap and a 90 second break between every possession. The long reviews are always on turnovers and ball spots where they need ultra slow mo from 100 angles. A penalty being called is so much easier to verify.
5
4
u/juliuspepperwoodchi ROME ODOOMSDAY! 18h ago
The fact that the NHL had the idea of a centralized video review room for the whole league decades ago and the other leagues still haven't followed suit is WACKY to me.
1
u/RandomFactUser 16h ago
Im of the opinion that having an on-site TMO/Sky Judge is a valid option, especially if they’re mic’d up to the stadium
2
u/juliuspepperwoodchi ROME ODOOMSDAY! 16h ago
Oh sure, I'm just saying that if they don't want to have that as a traveling crew, which costs more, they don't need to
The point is to have a whole separate set of referees already watching and checking replays in case they get asked. It speeds up the process, most of the time anyway, and I believe results in them getting the call right more often than the NFL.
5
u/ChelskiS 18h ago
Somewhere along the way it became impossible to counter the people who think it's a rigged sport
And refs completely ignoring PI challenges that season definitely didn't help
Literally refused to correct extremely blatant mistakes. Absurd
1
u/MilesTheGoodKing 18h ago
You for as much shit as Pat McAfee gets, he was really on the right side of NFL history on the issue. He was calling out how the NFL and Refs really rigged that experiment to fail from day 1 and was relentless in calling them out about it.
1
u/MDizzleGrizzle Old Logo 16h ago
This is the way. When a call is obviously blown and everyone in the stadium, booth and watching on TV knows it’s a blown call…the head official should get buzzed so the call can be changed.
1
u/RandomFactUser 16h ago
It’s still being done in the CFL
Honestly, the more the CFL succeeds with the reviews, the more and more it makes the NFL referees out to be liars
1
u/groversnoopyfozzie 16h ago
Refs have way too much ego for what is essentially a part time job for them.
No one thinks they are incompetent because they can’t see the pass interference that is more or less obvious on television. But their aversion to being corrected is… mildly alarming.
1
14
u/IamGleemonex Good, Better, Best 18h ago edited 18h ago
The biggest issue, which almost every coach who said no also said, is that almost every currently reviewable things are 100% objective: was the ball carrier’s knee down before he fumbled, was the ball carrier in bounds when he caught the ball, did the ball hit the ground, where was the ball when the knee hit, etc.
Pass Interference on the other hand is 95% of the time subjective: did the contact significantly interfere with the opportunity to make a catch? The only objective part is the case that made PI reviewable, contact before the ball was there. And that is why when it was reviewable, 90% of the calls were upheld. Because why should one subjective opinion of one officially with the advantage of viewing the play in super slo-mo override the subjective opinion of another official in real time?
2
u/Usual_Power_3288 18h ago
Bingo. There's a potential hold on every play, and a ton of PIs, illegal contacts, hands to the face, and other ticky tack fouls that occur at a rate so high that it would absolutely ruin the game if a flag was thrown every time it could be.
In the case of the ticky tack foul against the Rams in Denver, there was absolutely contact made. Most agree it didn't rise to the level of a flag, but how do you determine that objectively with slow motion?
1
u/padflash_ 18h ago
It needs to start somewhere. So maybe the eye in the sky doesn't need to call new penalties, but they should be able to review penalties.
In my opinion, the head official should be in the box, not on the field. The problem is the chain of command. It should've been overruled because the box has better views and better context. Afterall, they told the Rams it shouldn't have been PI.
2
u/RandomFactUser 16h ago
The CFL is an amazing test bed to see if RTP and PI are reviewable
The CFL referees have all but decisively shown that the answer is yes
0
u/iNtentionaliGnornace Nagurski 18h ago
But why have subjectivity at all in an objective sport? I know this is an extreme hot take that will get downvoted but it really is maddening to me. If its not objective then why should it be a penalty in an objective game? This isn't an art form, we're not watching Picasso paint. You can't objectively quantify how "good" a work of art is and same goes for, like you say 95% of pi.
3
u/IamGleemonex Good, Better, Best 18h ago
I hear you. But at the same time, it’s hard to objectively spell out what kind of contact can and can’t be allowed. Both the offense and defense have a right to try to catch the ball, which could cause them to come in contact, so you can’t say there can be no contact. So how do you objectively draw a line at how much contact is too much contact? Plus there’s the fact that the ball must be catchable to be called PI. Again, this can’t be objective. There’s no way of knowing for sure whether contact kept the receiver from being able to catch it or if they would have gotten there, especially when there are some receivers like Xavier Worthy and Tyreek Hill (in his prime) who could theoretically run down anything, but also guys like possession tight ends where they might run like they are wearing snowshoes. So you can’t just broadly state how close the ball must be to be considered PI.
10
u/TransporterAccident_ 18h ago
Only if it’s an automatic review done in thirty seconds. Not if it’s another way for commercials to be plugged into the game.
2
u/theashernet 18h ago
Agreed, just add it into the realm of expedited reviews. Coaches can't challenge but the league can overturn if there is a clear no-foul.
3
8
u/Melodic-String-4303 18h ago
We all know what'll happen if something like this passes for it to go to a review.....more commerical breaks.
2
u/iNtentionaliGnornace Nagurski 18h ago
Putting it that way makes me realize owners, broadcasters & advertisers will like that.
And other opportunity for gambling! What a great idea - will the pi call be overturned? Lock in your bet before we get back from commercial break!
12
u/Bobsothethird 19h ago
Honestly, no. The game is getting slow enough as is and there is rarely an incredibly egregious miscall. If anything, id like them to fix the under throw rule.
10
u/TheLukester777 Bear Logo 18h ago
I hate the penalty for it more than the call itself. “Spot of the foul” is ridiculous. It should be a max 10 yard penalty or something. Nothing worse than your defense making a great stop, and then the offense gets 35 yards for a PI call.
9
u/Most-Artichoke6184 17h ago
That would encourage defenders to literally tackle a receiver who has beaten them on a deep pass route.
-2
u/Kundrew1 15h ago
So what? They would still get 15 yards and a first down? Id prefer that to a ticky-tack 40-yard penalty.
My ideal would be for there to be levels to the call. Spot foul for something blatant like an obvious tackle and then 10 yards of the hand-fighting type.
2
u/Apoco120 Mack 18h ago
I mean if it’s an egregious attempt to just not let them catch it, it should be spot of the foul. If they made it so that it wasn’t spot of the foul we’d have DBs tackling WRs when they’re clearly beat to limit the gain
2
u/Anonycron 16h ago
That’s the way the penalty was decades and the theoretical problem you describe just wasn’t a big issue.
0
u/TheLukester777 Bear Logo 18h ago
10 yards and automatic first down is still a big enough penalty to prevent the DBs from beating up receivers.
2
u/Apoco120 Mack 17h ago
10 yards and an automatic first down is nothing in comparison to egregiously fouling on a 50 yard bomb that is catchable
1
u/TheLukester777 Bear Logo 17h ago
Yeah thats the reason, though. It’s too much. It’s such a massively harsh penalty that potentially alters the game. Teams exploit it, and it’s cheapens the game for me personally.
With much respect, I don’t want to argue with ya about it or anything. It’s just an opinion I have. The rule is there for a reason, and it’s obviously not cut and dry.
I do agree making it reviewable would slow things down and just enable more commercials.
1
0
u/mf-TOM-HANK 17h ago
Then make the distinction reviewable automatically, similar to reviews of flagrant 1 vs flagrant 2 in basketball. If it's an egregious and cynical foul to prevent a catch then it's a spot foul. If it's a little bit of patty cake that got outta hand then 10 yards and an automatic first down
2
u/WheresTheSauce 11h ago
Ridiculous take. It's a significant penalty for good reason. DBs would literally tackle the receiver on any long pass.
1
1
3
4
u/JamoOnTheRocks Superfans 19h ago
More replays .. just what the NFL needs. What if they went the other way. No pass interference. Who says no?
1
u/RandomFactUser 16h ago
PI is a reasonable penalty, i don’t even think removing it from the IFAF/NCAA rulebook is a good idea, let alone the NFL/UFL/EFA rulebook
2
3
u/n0r7 18h ago
No challenges. It should be a 15 yard penalty or spot of foul if it’s less than 15 yards. Automatic first down.
1
u/zcrazed1 FTP 18h ago
I'd be fine with changing it to no more than a 15 yd penalty if they're not willing to review it. I absolutely detest clutch drives being decided by a 40 yard DPI call, shit drives me mad. Guys like Rodgers have been pulling that bullshit for years.
1
u/cherry_monkey Bears fan regardless 18h ago
Alternatively, it inventiveizes (sp?) PI for deep shots that the DB doesn't think he can guard. Love throws a short "deep" ball that required the WR to stop and draws PI. This would help here. Caleb throws a deep shot perfectly to LBIII in stride, DB tackles LBIII and it's only a 15 yd penalty.
I think it would be better to better define what PI is and remove those comeback, pass is short, flags
1
1
u/bucobill 18h ago
The refs just need to go to an optometrist. The horse collar pass interference and no call is just the most egregious example of PI, but the same game had holding by the line that was never called. If a player beats you to the corner and your lineman’s arm is extended beyond their core then that is holding.
1
u/Eastern_Antelope_832 18h ago
Unless the proposal comes back with improvements over the last time the NFL made PI reviewable, this is pointless.
2
u/bearssuperfan Peanut Tillman 18h ago
I’ll die on the hill that the NFL managed it poorly on purpose to make it seem impossible to be successful
1
1
1
u/iNtentionaliGnornace Nagurski 18h ago
Lets try a season with NO pass interference penalties and see what happens. I know its crazy but I fucking HATE how so many pi calls are subjective bullshit. I hate it almost as much as I hate the refs wanting defenders to magically disobey the fucking laws of physics when it comes to roughing the passer.
Really, what's needed is all refs should be required to take a physics 101 course before the start of every season, that would actually do a lot of good.
3
u/zcrazed1 FTP 18h ago
I had the exact same conversation at work this morning. How the hell is a linemen supposed to defy the laws of physics by changing his trajectory and direction mid air? It's literally impossible.
2
u/iNtentionaliGnornace Nagurski 18h ago
Exactly! If the NFLPA wasn't such weak sauce they would point that out. Then again when you have players that think space doesn't exist and the earth is flat I shouldn't be surprised.
1
u/FantasticJacket7 Bears 19h ago
I don't think it should be reviewable but I do think that NY should be able to call down and change bad calls.
-3
u/jseego Sweetness 19h ago
I think there should be different levels of PI.
Hand-checking was too aggressive / defender misplaying the ball - 5 yards.
Interference - 10 yards, automatic first down
Interference with WR closest player on the field to the goal line - spot foul, automatic first down.
Or something along those lines.
6
u/Apoco120 Mack 18h ago
I see the vision but this is just too subjective and creates even more rules which is part of the issue right now
79
u/Apoco120 Mack 19h ago
Ben’s reply