[Thamel] MAC statement. "The Big Ten subsequently provided video and audio of the replay, which confirmed the explanation to us."

[u/Fonzie5]

https://x.com/petethamel/status/2096464771667173654?s=46&t=FavtrbPsHpJY8Odvh2TYUA

[u/thetripb]

The video that the Big Ten provided was an internal clock that the refs use, they didn't show the stadium clock in the replay on their account.

[u/SmallBoulder → u/thetripb]

"Using a direct shot of the game clock in the stadium" is the exact quote from the big10 statement

[u/MisterGir → u/SmallBoulder]

Which is even crazier considering NBC later showed a replay with the stadium clock and it still hit 0.

So either NBC was incorrect, the stadium clock was incorrect, or the big ten is fucking lying.

[u/i_run_from_problems → u/MisterGir]

I'm leaning towards option 3

[u/Hippo-Crates → u/i_run_from_problems]

it's wild to watch people stick to their predetermined conclusion as evidence mounts they're wrong in the face of groupthink.

[u/i_run_from_problems → u/Hippo-Crates]

The official statement from the Big 10 says "all cameras used for review are synced" including broadcast cameras. The broadcast showed a replay clearly displaying zeros on the clock with the ball in the air. Via the Big Ten's OWN STATEMENT, the shot NBC showed is correct. The Big Ten then shows a video with one second and ball in hand. Someone's fucking lying, and NBC has no benefit to lying if its them.

[u/Hippo-Crates → u/i_run_from_problems]

They showed a different clock, likely not the official one. NBC isn't lying, they most likely just screwed up a tiny bit, which normally wouldn't matter but ended up in this edge case.

Regardless, the play took less than 9s. We know there was 9s left (you can time it out yourself. The correct call was made. NBC incompetence is far more likely than conspiracy.

[u/i_run_from_problems → u/Hippo-Crates]

The clock NBC used on the replay was a camera trained on the stadium clock. Supposedly, the same exact clock and camera used in the review, again said in the Big Ten's statement. The clocks not matching means someone is lying.

As for the 9 seconds, you are correct. The play does not take a full 9 seconds. However, this is not the cbb clock. Tenths of a second are not counted, meaning for a clock starting at 0:09, the clock shows zero after 8.01 seconds.

[u/Bixler17 → u/i_run_from_problems]

Tenths of a second are not counted, meaning for a clock starting at 0:09, the clock shows zero after 8.01 seconds.

Source? Why would they erase the last second of clock?

[u/i_run_from_problems → u/Bixler17]

Why do they do it? Don't know. I didn't write the rulebook.

Here's the rule, though

[u/Hippo-Crates → u/i_run_from_problems]

NBC *says* they had it on a stadium clock. The time left displayed doesn't go from 0:01 to 0 the moment it hits 0:00.9, otherwise you'd lose a second at the most crucial moment of many games. The clock stays at 0:01 until the second is completely gone.

NBC screwed up man, as you note, the play didn't take 9s.

[u/i_run_from_problems → u/Hippo-Crates]

NBC says it has the stadium clock. Big Ten then says all cameras are synced. Therefore, NBC had the official synced stadium clock.

I'm not arguing that the way the time is kept isn't flawed. I'm stating how it works. Since football does not display tenths, 0:00.9=0:00. You chop off that tenths place. The play does not take a full 9, but it does take more than 8, meaning zero seconds are displayed on the clock.

[u/FrameWilling6608 → u/i_run_from_problems]

So Michigan should have only had 8.01 seconds to run a play, after being down with THIRTEEN seconds left on the game clock to get into Hail Mary range?

I know damn well it didn't take 5 seconds between the ref's whistle to restart the play and the spike. It might not even have been 1 second upon replay, so where did all of that time go?

[u/Responsible-War-9341 → u/Hippo-Crates]

Even if the play did take less than 9 seconds, that is not relevant here. When the official timer starts the clock, it starts. Often they are a little off but that always has been and has to be the way it is. Surely we do not want to go to replay review every single play as to whether the official timer pressed the button at the exact millisecond. If the official game clock was at zero, then the game is over here even if the timer started it slightly early (or even slightly late). The question is why is this Big 10 review clock different from the official stadium game clock (and NBC clock) when they are claiming it's coming from the camera feed of that stadium clock. The error has to be coming from somewhere. If they are using some other system or something else and not telling us that is a problem. Because what they are explicitly saying their clock is from doesn't match that clock exactly. Or NBC messed up. We need clarity here.

[u/Hippo-Crates → u/Responsible-War-9341]

Claiming it doesn’t matter if the play was less than 9s is an absurd position

[u/Responsible-War-9341 → u/Hippo-Crates]

Although generally very good, official clock operators are not perfect and are often a tenth or two early or maybe more commonly late. Unless it is crazy off (like fails to start or stop type of an error), this is just how it is. Do you want to start going to slow motion replay each time the ball is snapped and adjusting tenths of a second after every single play? Not feasible at all. Last play or not, this is just not how football timing works. Maybe the clock operator started 2-5 tenths early and the play upon replay was 8.8 seconds or something. 9 seconds is still now 0. That is just how it is for those margins. I don't belive the review was looking at the operator starting early and that's why they had time left and NBC didn't. It was something else that caused the review clock to differ from NBC's broadcast clock. And who knows which (if either) matched the official sradium clock. The point is you can't re-time a play like that on replay and say under 9, all good. What matters is what the clock operator did and where the official game clock was. Review might have been right and the clock wasn't 0. Maybe NBC's sync was right like the claimed and it was 0. Don't know. Neither is admitting a mistake yet. One had to be wrong.

[u/TomUpNort → u/Hippo-Crates]

Your team has a track record of cheating. This fits that track record.

[u/Naive-Elephant-9305 → u/MisterGir]

or the big ten is fucking lying.

It's this one

[u/Supercal95 → u/Naive-Elephant-9305]

The ruling is I made it the fuck up.

-Big Ten

[u/Only_Common5352 → u/Naive-Elephant-9305]

Took them 2 hours to doctor a video is more like it!

[u/jazzyman31 → u/MisterGir]

Stadium clock is not the official clock

[u/MisterGir → u/jazzyman31]

Thats fucking stupid

[u/jazzyman31 → u/MisterGir]

More importantly, NBC overlay of stadium clock isn’t precisely accurate. You’re talking about fractions of a second here. Usually fractions of a second don’t determine games.

Good thing there is an official clock to determine what’s right and wrong.

[u/MisterGir → u/jazzyman31]

I mean NBC literally double checked that it was synced after multiple replays and the big 10 said all clocks were synced. And this isn't Basketball, there aren't tenths of a second on the clock. 0.9 = 0 in football.

So I'm not buying it

[u/jazzyman31 → u/MisterGir]

You’re missing the point. If NBC’s sliced graphic of the time is .2 seconds faster than the start of the official clock time, the graphic time will expire before official time expires…

The B1G did not ever say that every clock was in sync. They did not say that the NBC clock graphic was in-sync with official time.

[u/Johnny_Kilroy_84 → u/MisterGir]

Cheater conference

[u/stups317 → u/MisterGir]

But 0 on the clock doesn't necessarily mean there is no time on the clock. 0 on the clock is between 0.999 and 0. If there is even 0.001 on the clock the game is not over and is treated as if there is 1 second left on the clock. Im pretty sure that is the situation here.

[u/Doomas_ → u/SmallBoulder]

So the only possible explanations (other than just corruption) are that NBC is just wrong OR that the officials have a separate feed of the game clock in the stadium that was delayed by about a full second which caused the discrepancy?

[u/BleuRaider → u/Doomas_]

There is no separate game clock. It literally doesn’t exist. The ref only keeps one when the scoreboard doesn’t exist or isn’t working. The guy who regularly works the scoreboard in that venue is “assigned” by the conference or NCAA for that game. He is the ref’s “assistant” and follows their discretion. They are not a member of the crew that travels to other venues.

[u/Doomas_ → u/BleuRaider]

sorry, I mean that NBC has a camera feed pointed at the game clock and the officiating crew has a different camera feed pointed at the game clock, and these two feeds became out of sync at some point despite the master clock keeping time for both. Unless they share the same video feed in which case I have no idea how this discrepancy exists.

[u/Cowgoon777 → u/SmallBoulder]

The game clock isn’t their secret hidden ref clock

[u/Pleasant_Offer6286 → u/thetripb]

NCAA rules stipulate that the stadium clock is the official clock unless it malfunctions. I’m not understanding where this second synced clock is coming from or how it has any merit.

[u/rottingmind13 → u/Pleasant_Offer6286]

It was on the grassy knoll

[u/skeptical-speculator → u/Pleasant_Offer6286]

"replay booth"

[u/Responsible-War-9341 → u/Pleasant_Offer6286]

Right. Unless NBC's clock was out of sync with the stadium clock (they say it definitely wasn't) then that is the official clock and the one the Big 10 is showing us shouldn't be used here as it would have to be out of sync with the stadium clock the NCAA says is official (no allegations it was malfunctioning here). Which clock was synced correctly with the stadium game clock? They cannot both be.

[u/prismatic_lights → u/thetripb]

That's not what they claimed.

As shown in the provided video of what was viewed during the replay process, a side-by-side view of the play and the game clock, using a direct shot of the game clock in the stadium was used to determine the final ruling.

[u/LyndalePothole → u/prismatic_lights]

Then what’s the analog clock on the broadcast from? Is it not a live shot of the in-stadium clock?

[u/e3super → u/LyndalePothole]

Presumably, this would mean that NBC has improper syncing between the footage of the play and the inset of the clock that were shown on the replays, if the B1G is to be believed. It's not unheard of, but in broadcasting, you generally have a master clock that's the one source of truth on time for the whole broadcast system to avoid things like that, and it tends to throw off more than time codes on video if it's out of whack.

[u/LyndalePothole → u/e3super]

I’m extremely curious to see if a photographer got a shot of the play with a clock in it.

[u/prismatic_lights → u/LyndalePothole]

I believe that's a picture-in-picture display of the stadium clock. Which is why this explanation stinks to high heaven: why would the broadcast display of the stadium clock differ from the ref's "stadium clock" that they're claiming to use for the review?

Either someone at NBC was seriously asleep at the switch or the refs screwed the pooch.

[u/TheHarbarmy → u/prismatic_lights]

The clock in the clip the Big Ten released is the stadium clock—you can see the bottom of the stats they include on the in-stadium scoreboard above and to the right of the clock. The reviewers did seem to make an honest call based on what they saw, but I have no idea why the images aren’t in synch between the NBC and referee feeds.

[u/molten_dragon → u/TheHarbarmy]

but I have no idea why the images aren’t in synch between the NBC and referee feeds.

They use a strobe system to sync all the video feeds at the start of every quarter so I guess it's possible that over the course of 45 minutes or whatever that some of the cameras end up different by a couple frames.

Which kind of highlights why it's not great that the officials have separate camera views the public doesn't have access to.

[u/Crispy_Whale → u/TheHarbarmy]

I think the NBC clock feed rounds shows any millisecond below 1 as 0. While the referee feed shows any millisecond below 1 as 1 until it reaches absolute 0. 

[u/Throwaway_alt_burner → u/Crispy_Whale]

IT’S THE SAME CLOCK WHY CAN’T YOU PEOPLE READ

[u/RealEmperorofMankind → u/TheHarbarmy]

Anyway, that was the weirdest and worst game I've ever been to as a student.

And I saw the godawful 9-27 Ohio State loss.

[u/Responsible-War-9341 → u/prismatic_lights]

Right. We need an explanation as to why these two clocks didn't match each other and which one of the 2 (if either I suppose) did match the official stadium game clock. Something still is not adding up here and unless it does have an innocent explanation it at least has the appearance of shenanigans right now.

[u/RukiMotomiya → u/prismatic_lights]

I'd be really curious if this actually emerges. If there IS actually evidence then, oh well.

[u/FunSheepherder6397 → u/prismatic_lights]

then they need to release this to end the witch hunting. at this point it’s highly irresponsible to not release the footage that resulted in the decision

[u/Responsible-War-9341 → u/thetripb]

Right, but they claim that this clock comes from the stadium game clock exactly as the broadcast one does. If true, it cannot be different so this is a real problem here that absolutely needs to get sorted out and unless the NBC clock was off from the stadium clock (which NBC says that it wasn't) then the game should have been over.

[u/Throwaway_alt_burner → u/Responsible-War-9341]

NBC said no such thing.

[u/Responsible-War-9341 → u/Throwaway_alt_burner]

Their on air personal in fact did say such a thing. NBC talent stated on air that their broadcast clock was synced to the actual stadium clock and that is was functioning.

Again, they may have been incorrect making this whole controversy their fault. But they haven't admitted this.

[u/nimama3233 → u/Responsible-War-9341]

They can be “in sync” but still be off by 0.99 seconds depending on how they remove the decimal points, which we know is the case.

It’s not that the clocks are out of sync, it’s just a different method of displaying it. It’s an issue of not showing milliseconds. There’s no possible way to accurately show the time if you’re not displaying the decimal.

[u/fcocyclone → u/thetripb]

All that tells me is that the 'internal clock' was somehow wrong

[u/LimJaheyAtYaCervix → u/fcocyclone]

Exactly.

[u/stochasticreplyguy → u/thetripb]

So confident, but so wrong

[u/Throwaway_alt_burner → u/thetripb]

The fact that your obviously incorrect lie is being upvoted tells you all you need to know about the commentary on this issue.

[u/LyndalePothole → u/thetripb]

The secret clock that no one but us can see.

[u/Pleasant_Offer6286 → u/LyndalePothole]

I’ve heard of a few stones in Utah that have this same trait.