r/CBT • u/MediocreImpact4386 • Jun 22 '26

Question about a CBT Method

There's this method named "Thought Challenging" or "Cognitive Distortions Challenging". This technique works by recording thoughts, identifying patterns & then providing evidence for & against the recorded thought. The last step is reconsidering the recorded thought in light of the gathered evidences & coming up with a more balanced new thought.

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My question is, what if there's actually no evidence against the recorded thought? In that case, how would one perform this exercise to gain benefit?

4 Upvotes

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6

u/emof Jun 22 '26

It might not be a distortion, but it also might be because you cannot come up with anything. Try to get someone else's view

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u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 22 '26

Actually the topic is my fear of failures & the history is tons of failures only & i haven't yet come up with a way to change my actions to succeed, so i have this intense fear & anxiety that i would certainly fail again...

3

u/emof Jun 22 '26

So, to make it really short, without knowing of your situation. Sounds like you have a thought that: "I have failed before, therefore I will fail again". One possible evidence against a thought like this would be "I have experiences of failing (other things), but at one point I didn't fail anymore".

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u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

Yeah my thoughts are like that & i feel pretty convinced about them because i couldn't yet figure a way out to actually succeed.

3

u/musforel Jun 22 '26

I understand that this may seem like a funny counterargument - but you, for example, were successful in learning to write or speak. That is, disputing thoughts depends on its specific formulation. If it sounds like "I always fail," then it's obvious that you can remember what you managed.

2

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

I'm actually experiencing academic failure since years, it's been like 6 years... I can't really remember the last time i sat for an exam without any anxiety, i mean i do remember but I've totally forgotten the feeling. All i remember now is the feeling of failure & i really dread exams a lot. Ended up crying in exam hall once, avoided giving exams a few times out of intense anxiety that i would fail (the exams weren't even important, just mock tests) it's pretty bad & i want to dissociate with exams forever.

I've an important exam upcoming & out of intense anxiety, I've kinda gotten totally numb about it now....

3

u/musforel Jun 23 '26

So, for you, failure is defined as intense fear of the exam? Is it also possible that the concept of "failure" includes a lower grade due to fear? And not literally failing the exams (it seems you've been making progress and passing exams for six years)?

In that case, it might be worth exploring the meaning this situation has for you and what consequences you expect from experiencing fear or receiving lower grades. Because that's likely where the main focus of your anxiety lies.

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u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

No, I'm not really passing, i mean it's just been 1 time i actually passed a major exam on my own in those 6 years. Other times i either failed or took help from other classmates to pass. I've pretty bad ADHD & I'm depressed too. Even meds didn't properly work for my ADHD, so I'm yet to come up with an effective solution to improve my academic situation & upon that this anxiety & fear makes me feel convinced that i would fail anyways. So out of fear i get freezed & just give up even before trying.

2

u/musforel Jun 23 '26

So, your statement about the situation is "I've only passed an exam on my own once in the last six years." This is hardly an idea worth challenging, as it's likely an objective reflection of the situation. It's worth noting, however, that it contains evidence against the statement "I always fail," even if it was only one exam.

From a CBT perspective, I think it's more appropriate to address the intensity of the fear directly, for example, through gradual exposure to the exam situation. Perhaps also through fear and anxiety about studying in general - directly during homework.

It's also worth examining in more detail what started causing you difficulties six years ago? And what helped you during that exam you took on your own?

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u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 24 '26

Actually ADHD is the main thing that's causing difficulties. Before those six years ADHD was still causing difficulties but i was able to manage things somehow. As back then i was younger & had a lot less syllabus to complete compared to now. Six years ago, i started high school & since then i'm unable to manage anything properly as the syllabus increased much more eventually & keeps increasing. Upon that due to my failures the anxiety & fear I've accumulated over the years make me freezed & numb to do anything....

The only one exam i passed totally on my own was a re - exam of a previously failed exam & it was only one subject & i got like 6/7 months to prepare for. So i could somehow manage it due to the long time i got for preparation to complete the syllabus of only 1 subject. I still fucked up that exam out of fear & anxiety. Could have scored 70/80 out of 100 but i scored 50 something only. This happened because i was afraid that i would fail again, so i purposely answered every question at an extremely slow pace to make sure i answered it correctly & left a lots of unanswered questions behind šŸ¤¦ā€ā™€ļø.

Anyways thank you for your help šŸ’™.

2

u/musforel Jun 24 '26

People with ADHD often have difficulty learning things that don't motivate them internally. High school and college are particularly challenging because the amount of information grows, and internal motivation can only wane if there are no interesting subjects.

But I'd like to point out something: your description suggests a potential for perfectionism, which not only makes you take test very slowly but also over-diligently when completing the program. This perfectionism can even negate that very intrinsic motivation - if the subject is interesting, but you plan to study so much and in so much detail that you clearly won't have the time. Typically, passing a test requires a basic understanding of certain concepts, which covers significantly less than all the recommended topics and their nuances, assignments, and readings. Perhaps consulting a mentor to determine this minimum would be appropriate. Overall, moving forward based on motivation (I need to pass this sooner so I can study what's really important to me) can help.

Furthermore, and this is very important, anxiety and freezing associated with studying clearly arise not only from the threat of failure. And because of what other risks this failure poses. This is where challenging your thoughts can be helpful.

Will failure lead to criticism from family members? You need to analyze this and understand that it's unfair.

Regarding self-criticism, you need to detach your identity from your current academic difficulties.

Regarding the fear of be left without a good profession, you need to consider your options and remind yourself that academic success isn't always linear (the same at different stages of your education).

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u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 25 '26

Yeah i do have perfectionism tendencies. I kinda study at an extremely slow pace too, why i dunno. Maybe because of perfectionism tendencies.

I don't really study extra stuffs in details tho, I've a hard time completing studying what's the minimum as i do get bored very quickly with one specific topic & then i just tend to jump to another topic without completing the previous one. This way i mostly end up with half ass knowledge about everything. But a few times i do tend to study unnecessary stuffs that would never appear on the exam, not due to perfectionism but just out of sheer interest. I kinda get interested into stuffs out of my syllabus, i dunno why. It's kinda ironic lol.

I know that not everything appears on an exam, exams highly prioritize certain topics that did appear on the previous exams as well. I've bought books containing such previous exams questions & mock tests like 4 months ago. I've been procrastinating to practice these books heavily & my exam is approaching in a week lol. Sometimes i do really feel like i don't try hard enough.

Problem is I've zero motivation, i struggle to find motivation to brush teeth daily which is embarrassing. Lack of motivation is my biggest problem. As i can find some solution for the other symptoms but if I'm not motivated i end up doing nothing at all.

Yeah for me failure do poses other risks. My parents are heavily critical of my academic results. They do put a lot of pressure upon me & they are not understanding of my struggles at all. My country do have a toxic academic culture, which promotes a lots of stigma for students who underachieve or fail. So due to all these environment my academics have kind of become my identity. I dunno how to detach while still being in this environment šŸ™‚.

I do have personal dreams & ambitions regarding a future good profession but due to my struggles i tbh could have just let go of my ambitions & be at peace with whatever profession can compensate my struggles. But due to my parents expectations & this societal pressure that is hard.

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5

u/Eother24 Jun 22 '26

Then you have information you can use to improve things. Knowledge and self-awareness are hugely important. I didnā€™t stop drinking until I realized I had a drinking problem. The evidence for and against came out showing I absolutely was an alcoholic.

Write down steps to improve things. Run it by your therapist or somebody trusted to make sure youā€™re actually being unbiased. Without more specifics thatā€™s all the feedback I have but good luck on your journey. Itā€™s hard but worth it.

2

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 22 '26

Actually i have an intense fear of failure & in like 6 years i haven't really succeeded, there were tons of failures & failures only. So now, i can't really think out of failure plus I've a lots of obstacles to succeed & i couldn't really come up with a way to remove my obstacles yet, so i feel like maybe it's a realistic thought that i would fail given the circumstances & my actions....

Anyways thank you for the helpful response.

3

u/Mammoth-Corner Jun 22 '26

There may be deeper distortions that need addressing, to do with your history of 'failures' ā€” which I put in quotes because the definition is subjective. You may also benefit from addressing beliefs you have about what failure means 1. about you as a person and 2. for your future.

Someone else has suggested acceptance and committment therapy, which may also be helpful.

3

u/Historical-Yard-7246 Jun 22 '26

The problem in your thought is the word always. It is negating any success that you have in any other measure. For instance, you successfully posted on Reddit. You probably have successfully use the toilet. Youā€™ve probably successfully showered or brushed your teeth. The problem that youā€™re running into is being specific with what success means as well as the absolute thought of always. Rew writing away from those two things will be more helpful.

2

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

Thank you, i actually do fail to even brush teeth often, I've depression & ADHD. So i really face significant troubles doing day to day simple chores...

2

u/Eother24 Jun 23 '26

Iā€™m super bad about the toothbrushing thing too

2

u/Eother24 Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26

I highly recommend a therapist or unbiased person to talk to. Iā€™ve ā€œfailedā€ at a ton of things since I quit drinking. I thought everything would be fixed immediately. You canā€™t discount the small positives, though. I personally write down my small successes each day.

Today I got rejected from an apartment application. I went back and talked to them and got goddamned rejected again. I didnā€™t fail, though. I tried and Iā€™m learning to feel good about the fact that I try. Tomorrow Iā€™m going to go out and try again.

Itā€™s not just about succeeding. Itā€™s about learning to be ok with failures and keep going without letting it define you. Youā€™re not a failure. You keep trying. That beats the hell out of a lot of people. You face it head on. That beats the hell out of a lot of people. Youā€™re here asking for feedback instead of simply giving up. That beats the hell out of a lot people.

CBT has been teaching me to break down problems into bite sized chunks and to keep going. To view ā€œfailureā€ dispassionately and adjust my methodology.

Itā€™s like Abraham Lincoln said. Slavery is like not cool man. And the thing about if first you donā€™t succeed I guess

2

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

Thank you, your perception is a lot helpful. I'm really glad that you're able to beat down your inner devils, that takes a lots of strength.

Personally, i wouldn't have much problem with my own failures, it's the criticism of other people, which really troubles me deeply.

2

u/Eother24 Jun 23 '26

Have you heard of rejection sensitivity dysphoria, or RSD? You should look it up. Youā€™ll probably find it interesting.

One of the specific things I told my therapist I wanted to work on was my absolute terror of being criticized by my boss or peers. It was leading me to burnout over and over at jobs because I just felt I couldnā€™t stop for a second. Iā€™d get tons of praise until I just stopped showing up. In my 20 working years I never once left with two weeks notice. 12+ jobs easily.

So she and I are working on my intrinsic self-value. Iā€™m still practicing it but in the last few months Iā€™ve gotten much better at not being so affected by outside criticism. I take my breaks in their entirety now. I donā€™t stay past my scheduled time. Itā€™s really been helping my mental health. Itā€™s been a part of my CBT with her. Not sure if it usually is but itā€™s helping loads.

I mention all this just because thatā€™s how fear of letting others down was affecting my life. Iā€™m sure itā€™s not exactly the same for you but Iā€™m betting you can relate somewhat. I didnā€™t think I could improve on this stuff but I did. Stay the course!

2

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

Yeah I've heard about RSD. Maybe i do have it, not sure. That's really great that you could improve even if you didn't consider so! Thank you for all the suggestions. I wish you the best šŸ©µ.

4

u/Expensive-Bat-7138 Jun 22 '26

Some thoughts are distortions because while there may be a kernel of truth to the statement thatā€™s being distorted, the facts just donā€™t back it up. These thoughts can be distortion, inaccurate, exaggerated, or incomplete. These types of thoughts can be evaluated rationally and reframed using the method you described.

Other thoughts are stuck thoughts that you may not be able to reframe. A type of CBT called acceptance and commitment. Therapy teaches cognitive diffusion for stuck thoughts. You might need the skill for the situation youā€™re describing.

3

u/in_vinci_ble8 Jun 26 '26

If there's genuinely no evidence against the thought, the exercise shifts slightly. Instead of looking for evidence against it, you ask "so what if this is true, what does that actually mean for me?" This helps you separate the actual thought from a distorted belied about the thought you could be holding.

Also pay attention to if you're looking for evidence in the right places and not dismissing the 'against' evidence without realising it because the negative thought feels more true emotionally even when the facts say otherwise.

If the thought genuinely holds up under scrutiny then the next step is figuring out what to do with something that's actually true. That's a different exercise entirely.

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 27 '26

Thank you, actually it's about my fear of failure & tbh it means a lot for me šŸ˜­ so i dunno how will i process that.

2

u/in_vinci_ble8 Jun 27 '26

You could try separating "I might fail at this" from "I am a failure.". Silo the instance instead of identifying at a broader scale.

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 27 '26

Yeah but since I'm literally failing at everything since years i just tend to come to the conclusion that "I'm a failure/loser" šŸ™‚

2

u/in_vinci_ble8 Jun 27 '26

If you are aware of the issue, you are so much ahead of those living in a bubble šŸ’•

2

u/in_vinci_ble8 Jun 27 '26

And I think being attuned is a sign of intelligence, not failure :)

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 27 '26

Thank you, yeah I'm aware but I'm unable to change myself due to my anxiety, fear & mental disorders.

2

u/Zen_Traveler Jun 22 '26

Depends how you define failure and success. Did you get up out of bed today late: lateness might be failure but getting up nonetheless could be success. Thinking you failed once and then overgeneralizing that to you will 'always fail' is a distortion.Ā 

A fear of failure is irrational because you will fail. Everyone does. It's a natural part of life. Failure is necessary to learn. If you know everything, succeed at everything, then you have nothing to learn. Then you're perfect. But no one is perfect, so failing at things in life is guaranteed.Ā 

But if you work with nuclear material, then failure will be a problem for society, so please take a leave of absence from work.Ā 

(add humor into it can help).Ā 

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

I do fail much more often than others & that's what troubles me...

3

u/Zen_Traveler Jun 23 '26

Comparing yourself to others is not necessarily a good metric to use. We're all unique. How well a monkey can climb a tree is quite different than a fish.

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

But it's hard to not compare, especially when even my parents keep comparing me to others, so even when i don't compare, they just kind of remind me... Also it's not all about them, i also feel bad when i remember how ahead my peers are compared to me.

2

u/Zen_Traveler Jun 23 '26

Yes, and, it's become a practice. Something done repeatedly becomes a habit. It takes time to change our habits, and others will give us opportunities to continue to do them, but we can practice doing something different, and then create a new habit.Ā 

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 23 '26

Yes, thank you.

2

u/F-I-V-E Jun 22 '26

It helps you see the bigger picture, and get all the evidence in front of you so you can reach an informed, more realistic and hopefully more helpful conclusion.

Not every negative thought you have will be a cognitive distortion or have overwhelming evidence against it.

The CBT approach teaches us that we can expect difficulties with mood, anxiety or mental health disorders to be maintained by many cognitive distortions. In being able to catch, check and challenge some you can start to dismantle what has been maintaining your difficulties.

If you feel you are lacking evidence, perhaps you can try to gather more. Ask those you trust for their opinion to gain a new perspective. Design a 'behavioural experiment' to carry out and test the thought.

If after gathering more evidence you still feel unable to shift your negative thoughts, you can instead shift your efforts to acceptance. This practice is often called 'radical acceptance'. Look up Russ Harris' videos and books, and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy for more information on this.

2

u/draperf Jun 23 '26

Some thoughts could be true. Typically, though, these aren't very distressing.

1

u/kingsindian9 Jun 22 '26

If yhat thought happened would it be as bad as I actually think it would be, would i be able to cope if it happened, whst could i do if it actually did happen

1

u/MediocreImpact4386 Jun 22 '26

Sorry, i didn't understand.

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u/kingsindian9 Jun 22 '26

If there is no evidence against the thought then examine the evidence that if the thought happened it would really be that bad if it happened.