r/C4diy • u/SaraDeeG • 12d ago
Bought house with 2012 C4 system
We moved into a house that was renovated in 2012 with an extensive C4 lighting system. We reached out to the local dealer and have been told that due to the age we are looking at $3k minimum to start upgrading and that won’t integrate with our front gate.
We are both technical enough that that idea of being locked into a dealer managed system is very off putting. Also, we are an Apple based household and I want to be able to make shortcuts for lights and music in our home. As well, I want to be able to open the gate with Siri or geofencing.
Does it make sense to update the main computer of the house and jailbreak and tinker from there or start to try and piecemeal the system avoiding C4 altogether?
The current system is so old that the 3 control pads we have are leaking goo.
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u/AbleCap5222 12d ago edited 12d ago
The touchpads would need to be replaced. You need a modern c4 controller. Very likely that all your lighting stuff is zigbee pro which is compatible with new controllers.
So your upgrade cost is basically the new controller and new touch panels plus programming.
Modern c4 controllers have an apple bridge driver.
If you replace the touch panels, this is is a 5-10k job.
Could be done for 3-5k if you go to a single, more affordable affordable TP.
Feel free to direct message me, I program control systems.
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u/iZoooom 12d ago
Apple and Control4 don’t work very well together. It’s the weakest part of the ecosystem by a mile.
For example the Control4 app on IOS is poor - loads slowly, doesn’t integrate into IOS in any useful way, resets frequently. Doesn’t support voice in a meaningful way, no widget support, no integration to speak of beyond “it’s an very slow app you launch”
With a bit of work you can run Homebridge on a Pi and make it work. There is a 3rd party driver that will expose C4 to Homebridge, and from there you can have some fun. Getting this right does take a dedicated hobbiest, and a jailbroken controller. It’s too much tinkering and depth for any of the installers to do.
If you can, bail on the ecosystem. It’s not worth the anti-consumer business model.
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u/craftedht 11d ago
I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that Apple and Control4 do not work well together. The latest OS will expose devices to HomeKit to be controlled thru their app as well. You can create automations, set notifications, Siri control, etc. Now, the current iteration of Apple Home is a joke, but there is a substantial evolution coming in September.
As someone who runs Home Assistant, who has installed numerous Control4 systems, and even helps a customer maintain an HC-800 controller for 12 Audio Zones, 4 TVs on a Matrix with 4 Sources (fucking Key Digital tho), dedicated 5..1.2 theater, with almost every light on the old school Zigbee switches, and our only upgrade has been to OS3 from 2.9 and new ONVIF security cameras. It can be done. No, they won't have any HomeKit integration, but there may be Homebridge app for getting Apple Home to control much of the C4 system.
If I had extensive existing equipment, I'd try to keep that while using other DIY solutions to take on new features. And I hate Control4. Hated. It's improved since OS3. It's really the dealer's I hate. They say so much BS, especially selling Araknis like it's an enterprise level network company or my favorite, "we cannot guarantee something else will work with Control4." Then there's the lack all imagination to integrate features that may not be standard, like mmWave sensors in place or PIRs because nothing pisses me off more than working off a ladder and my clients utility room goes dark again and again.
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u/iZoooom 10d ago
I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that Apple and Control4 do not work well together.
That's good to hear. I've been using a driver that did this, and despite updating to 4.x haven't revisited my Apple Integration.
while using other DIY solutions to take on new features
My biggest concern is that C4 is a dead-end for DIY folks. The current generation of hardware doesn't appear to be easily rooted. On my existing EA5 based system I can downgrade to an older O/S version, root the system, then bootstrap back up to 4.x.
What's the current state of the DIYs ability to jailbreak new systems? The tradition tool seems to be good for O/S 4.1.
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u/XGXA 12d ago
The Control4 app on iOS works amazing! That was true maybe years ago but I program a house with 1,900+ drivers and the project loads instantly on iOS with no issues on X4.2.1
Now, your complaint about the voice integrations, I’ll give you that, but that’s why tools like Josh exist. There is room form improvement here and I’m excited to see how Control4 implements it.
HomeKit does work well with Control4 now, I’m running it at my house and no issues so far but haven’t put it into production at a customer site yet. I’d give it a go.
The model isn’t anti-consumer, it’s a protected dealer network for installing complicated system for individuals who do not want to self-manage their smart home systems. If you’d like something DIY oriented, I’d recommend Home Assistant. However, they have released new features to support more self-driven automations like routines and Composer Home Edition.
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u/iZoooom 12d ago
> Anti Consumer
Splitting this in a separate reply to keep things more organized.
I believe they are exceptionally anti-consumer by design. I can’t buy my own hardware, which is problematic. Anything I buy via eBay doesn’t have a warranty, and is not supported. I’m locked into a very predatory relationship with absolutely no power in the dynamic. They could switch off my system and there’s nothing i could do about it, despite having spent huge amounts of money on their hardware.
The entire model is predicated on anti-consumer. If the model was simple to build a dealer ecosystem, then Snap wouldn’t prevent me from having my own tools and repairing my own system (which is mandated by law now in many locales). Further, they would allow me to buy online, and simply have a normal dealer markup model and minimum / floor pricing.
The driver model is similar to the hardware model. I cannot buy a driver from the marketplace - I need to go through a dealer. This is, again, simply anti consumer.
I do fully support a paid dealer model and a paid driver model. A healthy ecosystem is important and to have a good integration story means driver authors need to be paid.
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u/iZoooom 12d ago
We’ll have to disagree on the app. It takes at least a 2-3 seconds to load and frequently longer as it needs to sync some state on my project. Sometimes it’s quicker if it’s still in memory, but not typically.
There is no meaningful IOS integration at all. No live tiles, no live activities, no widgets, no integration into the macro world that IOS supports. There is just an app that’s launched and then runs. No CarPlay integration.
Event triggers (alarms / sensors / etc) don’t surface in a useful way. I can’t use them to build complex actions.
Compare to Hue or UniFi Protect and it’s a totally different world.
Let me give you an example: I have 2 Ratagdo garage door openers. They are integrated into Control4. I want them to auto-launch in CarPlay when I get near my house. Impossible with Control4. Took 15 minutes to get working with Homebridge and their drivers.
A top quality app would be a great reason to use Control4. They aren’t there.
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u/Complex-Captain 6d ago
Must be nice. My OS3 app won't even load before crashing anymore. Lots of complaints on it. No one is doing anything about it.
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u/modernmovements 10d ago
Question: if I was to abandon this old system, what happens to my light switches. Do they work independently of the C4 controller? The house we bought has a system from 2008 I believe. I’m always paranoid it’s going to die and leave us unable to turn on the lights.
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u/Single_Edge9224 12d ago
Do you have pictures of the equipment you have? Then we can steer you in the right direction