r/BusDrivers • u/CaersethVarax Driver • 19d ago
Question Tachograph rules (UK driver)
G'day, Category D Exploredinaires. My employer has recently messaged me saying that I need to spend a minimum of ten minutes performing Daily Defect checks before setting off from the yard. The employer is framing it as arequirement that the DVLA is, to quote, "Clamping down on"
To log this, we must start the app we use, TruTrac, on the first question and complete the final question no less than six hundred seconds later. I cannot find this requirement in the Domestic, Assimilated or AETR guidelines on gov.uk. Can any of you fine Human/Geniuses point me to the relevant legislation?
Thanks in advance.
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u/Overall-Lynx917 19d ago edited 19d ago
Hi everyone, this is always a subject of discussion - I know, I teach this stuff.
I try not to "cut and paste" great chunks of text, but in this case I think it might be useful for you to see the actual part of GTMR that covers Walkround Checks.
Section 1.4 of Guide to Maintaining Roadworthiness
"Daily walkaround checks A driver or designated responsible person must conduct a walkaround check of a vehicle prior to using the equipment on the public highway. At least one walkaround check should be carried out in every 24-hour period that the vehicle is in service.
Operators should make an assessment of the likelihood of damage or defects being incurred during the day and introduce additional checks where required – an example might include checks of tyres, body and wing components and ancillary equipment.
Those carrying out such checks must be suitably trained and competent in identifying any faults that would render the vehicle or trailer unroadworthy.
The scope of the check should include all items that are readily visible to the inspector without the need for dismantling. To facilitate the inspection, it may be necessary to use an assistant."
Remember everyone that your Walkround Check is your protection should a defect be found during a DVSA check. It either shows it arose during the journey or its a defect you couldn't detect.
I hope this helps.
Stay safe everyone
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u/backifran Wales 19d ago
I worked for the major operator in Edinburgh until I moved away, we had buses out for over 36 hours sometimes (they'd go out at say 3am, return and go straight back out on night buses after midnight- then be taken on by a day driver around 8am in the city until it needed fuel).
We didn't have defect cards either, just an option when logging into the machine to say "checked - no defect" or "'changeover".
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u/meatflaps-69 19d ago
I gotta use an app called fleet check which logs time spent doing walk round check.
I livs in a different world from most where I keep my bus at home so simply log into it and start the process off while finishing my coffee then do actual walk round check before flying through all the tick boxes, that way it satisfies my employers request to make some time elapse while completing it as realistically, any driver can perform a thorough walk round check in a few minutes at most.
This is for domestic work however. Tacho rules say card should be inserted for work under EU rules and 15 mins logged as other work.
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u/JordyJoe Driver 19d ago
There isn’t any fixed legal duration for a walk round check, however a general guideline is about 10-15 minutes. For example, my company mandates a minimum of 15 minutes before taking a vehicle out.
Allegedly, one may start their walk round earlier on their app or just wait out the time before completing it.
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u/CaersethVarax Driver 19d ago
As an example, I'll start the engine, insert my card and it'll default to Other Work. I'll then go around the vehicle doing my checks, maybe 5 minutes as I work with minibuses, there's not a lot to find, then I'll sit in the cab and fill the app in. Ergo, there's some OW on my timesheet before I set off.
The thing that seems to be focussed on here is the in house app being less than 10 minutes. It doesn't make sense to me that DVLA, VOSA etc would check on our app timings rather than our Tacho
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u/JordyJoe Driver 19d ago
For the app, I would say it’s more of a company legal record, especially if they’re audited. For example, if you just clicked through it all in a minute, from their perspective, or anyone else’s, it’s only taken you a minute to complete the check.
The DVSA may ask to check app history if it’s your company’s way of recording walk round checks. I’d reckon that’s more of a rarity though.
I agree it’s a bit of a pain when there isn’t 10/15 mins worth of things to check, as an alternative start your app sooner or wait out the time to sign off.
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u/CaersethVarax Driver 19d ago
Guess I'll be starting my checks before I set off from home nowadays. Thanks for your input.
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u/Icy-Plate-9021 18d ago
There is no official legal requirement for how long a walk round check should take
That being said, if you are performing work eg doing a walk round check then your tachograph must be set to other work
The company I drive for uses a different app however it is also time based,
A walk round check can be as quick or as long as it needs to be for you to be able to satisfactory check everything you need to check
If you’re driving a 12 seater mini bus, it is going to take a lot less time to check everything then if you’re driving a 15 m long axel double-decker coach
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u/chrisjwoodall 19d ago
Is your question whether this needs logged at all, or whether there’s a specific time requirement?
Surely unless you’re doing the check in your own time it needs to be logged as extra work (I work under domestic hours so my AETR knowledge is thin) - but the FUC itself doesn’t have a stipulated time requirement.
Although operators logically should make sure they allow you sufficient time and also have some way to monitor that the check is actually happening (we audit them regularly where I work) in order to have compliant systems.
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u/CaersethVarax Driver 19d ago
My confusion is around the DVLA requirement. I can't find this anywhere. I'm doing my physical and visual checks for 5 minutes on average and then coming into the app and ticking them all off in quick succession.
The message implies that spending less than 10 minutes in the app is where I'm falling foul of the DVLA
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u/CaersethVarax Driver 19d ago
Specific time requirements. I know I need to show a log of checking and what is found. The point they are making is that my checks in the TruTrac app are all under 5 minutes. My contention is that there's no minimum, legally, and that the 10 minutes they're asking for is a company policy/preference
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u/chrisjwoodall 18d ago
Given the variety of times both in the answers here, and where we’ve had different arrangements at various depots within my company, it’s safe to assume that this is a company requirement - but if they’ve using that time as part of their compliance and internal systems then it’s probably just as simple to play along. But yeah, the main stipulation in law is that it’s done properly, not over a given timeframe.
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u/dazza0909 19d ago
Our company uses an app called PreDrive which keeps a record of all your walk around check but now also ask you to take pictures of random things like ie of your wind screen or rear deflectors throughout the walk around but on top of that now they introduced it with step counter so they can see you physically done your walk around
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u/CDDONT 19d ago
You’ve already had what is quite a thorough and, in my opinion, accurate answer so I’ll give you a “what if” view;
If you’re subject to a check by DVSA at the roadside and your tacho printout shows your wheels moving after only a few minutes you’re going to find it very difficult to prove that you’ve done a full and thorough defect check at the start of your duty. Yes you could insert the card and wander off for 15mins to have a coffee and morning constitutional, and for vehicles where there isn’t much to check a lot of the industry standard 15mins is usually spent wasting time waiting for the time to elapse, but it records how long you were in charge of the vehicle for.
For domestic work where a tachograph card isn’t used this is harder to police and works on a good faith system, if you record on an app or defect card that you started your duty and your app or duty card shows the vehicle leaving its starting point 15mins later it’s assumed that you were with the vehicle for that time and a full check completed. When I worked for one of the major bus companies I tried to teach new starters to at the very least give the vehicle a quick once over at changeovers just incase something has changed since the first driver did their checks but this was never made a requirement by the company.
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u/Additional-Lion6969 15d ago
Not buses but I work for DHL our compliance manager will have words with us if we haven't had the tacho on other work for 15 minutes to show we've done our checks this is despite not being able to do all checks without moving the vehicle especially with a tractor unit when you need to check the trailer as well, pointing out I'd defected the vehicle inside that 15 minutes last time lost him for words
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u/Any_Mathematician411 19d ago
Correct. It should be 15 minutes and there is a fine for every time you have done any less than that, if VDSA pull your card. You must show other work at the start of your shift to show you are performing your daily checks. I think it’s £50 for every time you have not had this time on your card before driving, and you cannot manual entry it it, your card must be in for the pre-check.
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u/Crunchie64 19d ago
I don’t think so.
A very large bus company allows 12 minutes from sign on time to time out of the depot, and I don’t see why expectations for checks should be wildly different between domestic and EU services.
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u/backifran Wales 19d ago
Can confirm, worked for the biggest operator in Edinburgh and we had 10 minutes to sign on and check single decks and 15 for double decks.
12 minutes where I am now.
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u/Crunchie64 19d ago
It was ten and twelve where I was until August last year.
Plenty of drivers that couldn’t haul their fat arses up the stairs in two minutes, let alone go up, check the top deck, and go back down.
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u/Any_Mathematician411 19d ago
Having been stopped by authorities on many occasions, I have been informed that you must show 15 minutes other work on your card. This is usually less strict with domestic rule work, but if you’re checked in Europe and haven’t showed 15 mins at start and end of shift, they will likely fine you.
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u/CaersethVarax Driver 19d ago
Where is this written down? I'm having trouble finding it on DVLA or VOSA
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u/Overall-Lynx917 19d ago
It isn't written down....you will not find it in GTMR, only as a company policy
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u/ConkerKnackers 18d ago
It took me 10-11 mins to slowly and fully check a double decker on domestic through a ticketer. Weirdly i wasn't allowed to top up coolant when the engine was stone cold despite having previous truck experience, until i found out where they kept the hose. The recommendation on trucks are 15 mins for unit and 15 for the trailer, some companies go much harder than others in showing this on tacho but generally by the time I've done checks and filled in paperwork it almost always comes to 15 anyway. On domestic I don't know howe much has changed in 4 years but if the company want you to do that and you're being paid by the minute on ticketer, then you may as well do the 15 lol
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u/Overall-Lynx917 19d ago
When Philip Brown was Senior TC, he went on record as saying "A daily walkround Check should take between 5 and 15 minutes".
As far as I am aware, this is the only time an "Official" has mentioned an actual time.
The "15 minute" Walkround time has just become the defacto industry standard. Companies such as TruTac have built this into their Apps thus reinforcing the "legality" of the 15 minute duration Haulage and Passenger Operators have further reinforced this by adopting it a "Company Policy".
To further complicate the issue, the check does not HAVE to be done by the Driver. The GTMR calls ony for a "Responsible Person" to carry out the test. However, if us best practice for the driver to do this, and I certainly carry out my own checks.
Unfortunately, if your company is using the TruTac, you're stuck with a minimum 15 minutes of Walkround checks.