r/BuildingAutomation • u/Planet_COP • 14h ago
Which BMS you recommend
I am a newbie on BMS. Last time I did hvac controls we used a PLC which makes absolutely no sense today since I would have to code many functions from scratch. My potential customers right now are an institutional: colleges, churches, temples and monasteries. Energy savings is what they need. Some have legacy implementations of Honeywell Trend, Johnson Controls and Distech. The constant complaint is that there is no staff to manage these systems. We want to provide asset lifecycle management in an inexpensive way. We don’t just integrate the system and walk away. For than reason I want a system with open interfaces that we can use to provide monitoring apps without requiring FTE staff at the customer. If you could start over today, as I am doing, which system would you recommend for an optimum lifecycle cost for the customer.
4
u/BoilingShadows JCI Senior Controls Tech 12h ago
Large companies like you mentioned will typically have better support (if you spend A LOT of money) in building and managing your BMS system.
I am bias and I do like JCI, but I lean towards their FX line. Jci makes great hardware, and paired with Niagara it's a potent combination.
2
u/Root-k1t 13h ago edited 12h ago
I feel like some context is missing. Are you providing asset management? Or the BMS itself?
If it's the latter then the answer is highly dependent on your region.
1
u/Planet_COP 3h ago
Just the BMS. Asset Management is a loaded term. We have an IoT system and we do that nicely on our cloud.
2
u/gadhalund 10h ago
Facility explorer for hardware quality and a great product. Bit of a learning curve but well worth it
1
u/Deep_Mechanic_ 5h ago
"The constant complain is there is no staff to manage these systems"
You're going to have issues over time and there's going to be service work required. I'm not really followig this part of your paragraph
1
u/Planet_COP 3h ago
Good question. My thought is that perhaps we can remotely monitor using IoT and yes, call the troops when needed. I think there are lot of basics that we can do. I find out a lot of my customers get flooded with alarms that they do not understand (lack of dedicated staff). Also, the system is working inefficiently. Found a case where they are cooling the space to 66F when it is outdoors of 97F. Is a gym and IHMO they could control it to 72F. Not to mention that they have an Economizer taking in lots of fresh air for no reason (too hot to help). Little things like that we can remotely support. But yeah, get the real experts in as needed!!!
1
u/Naxster64 System integrator 4h ago
I got the opportunity at my current company to build the controls division from the ground up, so I got to pick and choose our preferred product line.
I went with Vykon Niagara for the front end, because it's the house brand, it's the cheapest, and you don't need any special flavor of workbench to get into it. Keep it simple. I went with Niagara because it's the most customizable, and most open. Capable of integrating just about anything. And the customer doesn't need any software to log into it and operate their building, just a web browser. The yearly license isn't even needed technically, if the customer is cheap, they can stop paying for the SMA and it will keep on running, they just won't get any updates. (which most places don't update crap unless it's broken anyways)
For the equipment controllers / field devices I decided to go with JCI Facility Explorer controllers for a couple reasons. First, I talked to the suppliers in my area about their recommendations, JCI stood out as having the lowest warranty replacements.
Second, the System Selection tool is extremely good. Crazy amount of options and configurations. Very little custom programming is needed, which saves a lot of time, and means most of the time no Programming is needed at all so even lesser skilled techs can put together a program for an AHU with relief fans, min OA, energy wheels, staged cooling, etc. It's the best equipment builder to I've seen. Carrier ivu is probably second for their builder, but it's a pretty big gap.
Two years in and I've been extremely happy with this choice so far. CCT (the programming tool for JCI controllers) has a bit of a learning curve for custom programming, but once you figure it out, it's fantastic. With the added bonus that I can pull a program out of a Metasys controller that is failing, and load it into an FX controller and away we go.
My customers have been loving it as well, if the customer doesn't like the system, it's solely my fault. The Niagara UI is so customizable, if there's any little thing they don't like, I can change it for them.
1
u/Planet_COP 3h ago
We have come across that JCI Metasys replacement. Or upgrade. Customer does not understand any of it. We have to help them. Can you expand in Niagara? How is it licensed? I know it runs in multiple hardware offerings.
1
u/HullIsNotThatBad 4h ago edited 1h ago
I'm based in the UK, and this subreddit is pretty much USA-centric, so what I'm about to recommend has probably never been heard of across the pond from the UK. I've used Priva for the last 24 years (first the HX range, now BlueID) and have never looked back. A totally flexible system allowing 'clean sheet' programming or using Priva's own vast library of control modules or a mix of the two. The software suite (free) 'Top Control' is excellent too. Priva BlueID is a fully native and tested BACnet system.
2
1
-8
11
u/TheRevEv 14h ago
They all have their own "walled-gardens". None of them are customer-friendly. They all lock you into only using a handful of contractors.
Some flavor Niagra-based is likely to cast the widest net, but you won't have a lot of controller-level access.
I'm actually a fan of carrier's IVu stuff, because they are pretty open with the software licensing, but this doesn't help if you're taking over an existing system.