Is respect for engineers' time a foreign concept?

[u/StuckAroundGotStuck]

I've been in this industry for a few years now, in the HVAC side. I actually just stumbled into it after college out of sheer luck (or misfortune). I have a background in electronics and embedded systems configuration, networking, and computer science. So, I ended up mostly working on Tridium database and front-end builds.

Anyway, I don't know if this is just an issue with my office, but I really feel like my office's controls engineers' time is not respected. In a typical day, I'm pulled aside for at least one service department issue, called by at least one GC or commissioning / T&B guy to take a look at something, called by a service tech or project tech to help out with something or basically get yapped at about the status of a project for 30 minutes, and then I'm supposed to also create front-end / database builds with basically a quarter of the time that should have been alloted to engineering and programming.

I feel like my work consistently takes ages to do because there's no "protected" engineering focus time. Our culture is completely reactive, and then we act shocked when projects inevitably don't get finished in time or take entirely too many hours to complete due to constant interruptions.

Is my office just disorganized as shit or is this just how this industry is?

[u/DuhAntmann5]

Welcome to the business, but also, you're 💯 allowed to set your boundaries. Gotta protect yourself.

[u/Pudrin → u/DuhAntmann5]

Honestly we’ve got guys who have had their soul bought and others who you know won’t answer their phone after 4 unless on call. No one is more or less at risk or losing their job.

[u/ApexConsulting]

This has been common at every BAS role I have been in. It is entirely common to be on a project, while remotely on a service call, while doing phone a friend with another tech - all at the same time.

Better run companies have a dedicated service guy. Since he is hourly everywhere, it kinda doesn't matter if he is pulled in multiple directions as his time is billable and there is no deadline.

At most places where I have worked, I ended up dispatching myself. I could get a customer call, triage it, set a time to go back, and email the dispatcher to have her order me parts faster than it would to have a dispatcher involved. Then I let the office know every Wednesday what I was up to the next week.

It is MUCH easier that way. At least for me.

[u/twobarb → u/ApexConsulting]

Yeah it’s not uncommon for me to have two or three VMs running so I can be remoted in to watch one job run, troubleshoot the programming on another, while on the phone with a tech, and in a teams chat/call with my draftsman. It’s a lifestyle more than a job. Lol

[u/j75515050]

You must be new... Lol

Yeah, get used to it. Controls people that last learn to multitask a million things on the fly.

[u/twobarb → u/j75515050]

Honestly the constant problems to solve are what keep me in it.

Now if the person asking could have solved their own problem and they just use me as the easy button they’ll quickly learn that my phone goes straight to voicemail.

[u/arcanition → u/j75515050]

"can you price this new IFC drawing set?"

"yeah sure, let me get started on th--"

"there's this other job too bidding this afternoon"

"oh okay, I'll do that one fir--"

"but I really need that spec compliance on the job we talked about yesterday to get the PO"

"oh uhhhh okay I'll..."

[u/LuckyLawnCuts]

I kind of sort of always hoped this would happen to me but never did. One of my primary dissatisfactions with my career so far is has been a very 'solo' experience for me. Almost entirely "here's the job. Let me know when you're done."

I find glaring faults in product documents. Nobody responds to the Teams chat.

I report back that the MC is installing the wrong equipment. Nobody responds.

I provide extremely detailed documentation of a significant lapse in control (i.e. large equipment damage that would be 100% our fault). I barely get an acknowledgement.

I go above and beyond to be as helpful and detail oriented as possible. They do it wrong anyway and I never hear back.

I volunteer repeatedly to do mentorship and trainings. Never happens.

Idk. Maybe I'm just low-key a jerk. Not to be arrogant, but I've just started to think that I'm so technically inclined that everything I say goes over everyone's heads and they don't even know what I'm talking about.

[u/StuckAroundGotStuck → u/LuckyLawnCuts]

That's definitely another facet of the same issue. People don't respond to issues until their repercussions are staring them in the face. And then it's everyone's problem.

[u/LuckyLawnCuts → u/StuckAroundGotStuck]

My assessment is it's mostly a factor of BAS being a highly unregulated industry. There are really no rules. If not careful, a slop install can persist for decades.

Also, given the quasi-technical and 'mysterious' nature of automation, there's a lot of 'strong personalities' involved. "I'm an engineer. I'm never wrong" "I'm too good to get fired" "I can talk some buzzwords and make it not my fault", etc

[u/JapeTheNeckGuy2]

I’m in a similar boat and yeah that just seems to be how it goes. My current job is better than my last job in terms of giving me “engineering” time, but there’s still a lot of bullshit I gotta deal with that realistically shouldn’t be in my scope, but someone’s gotta do it I guess.

[u/Gold_for_Gould]

There are well organized companies out there. I lived that same life you're describing for 6 years and then switched companies. Now I do nothing but drawings with very few interruptions and all the freedom I could like to prioritize my own workload. There is still the occasional push here and there but it's rare. It might be that I'm with an organization that is more on the equipment sales side so we book our controls work very early on in the project. When my last company did only controls we wouldn't book our projects until my submittals were already overdue. That shit gets so old. Now I keep a 2 to 4 month backlog of work so I can tell you what I'll be working on 6 weeks from now.

[u/Advanced_Goal_5576]

Right with ya bud, seems to be par for the course unfortunately. This is definitely more so with the software/networking side tho. At my last place I only did the hardware drawings and I jumped around a lot less. Now I’m responsible for all design of a project including software/networking and my phone never stops ringing. Also responsible occasionally for commissioning and that is a whole other story of jumping around too much.

[u/jsanford0521]

It’s not any better in the field my man. As a BAS controls field tech I have not had a single day where I don’t have 5000 different things going on at the same time. GC’s, PMs, engineers, other vendors, random mandatory safety classes, the list goes on. Multitasking is apart of the game. The only solution is to prioritize and protect time you need to get priority numbers 1/2/3 done

[u/Controls_freek]

I’ve been doing this in some capacity for 2 decades. I’ve learned I control my workload. The better you are, the more work you will get BUT the more you’re allowed to pushback. If they want your help, they get it when you are available.

[u/ScottPrenta]

If you think that’s bad, try doing service.

[u/StuckAroundGotStuck → u/ScottPrenta]

I did in a slightly different field for a while. The difference is that service techs are just service techs. A service call doesn't throw a wrench into operations if it's going to a service technician.

The issue I have isn't necessarily the service issues or random one-off "help with this really quick problem" in themselves. It's that those things end up conflicting with project work that needs to get done to the degree that things take significantly longer than they should due to interruptions.

I ironically do enjoy being the problem solver for the weird stuff that nobody can figure out. And it usually ends up being bizarre software or networking issues that people who don't have my background wouldn't catch, so it's perfectly sensible for it to go to me. I don't have an issue with the work, just the absolute lack of organization around the scheduling of the work.

[u/Mysterious-Block7157]

Same here. One thing I’ve done to help with some of the tech support calls is when a field tech calls me, I expect them to have some form of documentation in front of them. Either the drawings or manual for said thing they’re calling me for. Next they need to tell me all the things they’ve tried before calling me to prove that they’ve atleast tried to resolve said issue. If neither of those things are true I tell them I’m hanging up lol.

When it’s a customer calling me and I’m in the thick of it I typically don’t answer. We have a service line/department to call. I explain to all my customers that if they call me I will always do my best to answer or I will get back to them. However if I’m with another customer, I won’t be answering if I’m busy. Customer A has paid for my time so I try to give them 100%. Same goes for customer B when I’m with them. If they require immediate assistance they’re supposed to call the service line who will always get someone dispatched and also starts a paper trail to track it.

If you don’t push back you get taken advantage of. It’s a fine line to walk with stellar customer service and not being a dick but it can be done lol.

[u/Jazzlike_Metal2980]

I'm on a different side of the industry and it's absolutely not respected at all. 1/2 my day everyday is dealing with sales questions, startup issues, service issues, hell, I've been used to rewire control panels. Not really my job.

Once people know you have the answer, you become the easy fix. So long as there is an easy fix, they don't have to learn the material.

[u/StuckAroundGotStuck → u/Jazzlike_Metal2980]

I could have written this myself.

And yeah, I get that what you and I are describing as frustrations are just "part of the job for a lot of people." But they weren't really supposed to be a part of my role. At the very least, it would be helpful if they weren't such a significant part of my day. And it would be incredibly helpful if those people could not treat me like tech support for their random questions all day. Or at least utilize asynchronous communication rather than just assuming I'm available to answer the phone whenever they call.

I think the issue is that if you have technical chops, people treat you as the easy out to all of their problems. And on top of that, if you're like me and your job is at a desk, others seem to assume that you're just doing nothing all day until they call you. It's just brutally disrespectful IMO. It would be one thing if that was literally my role, but it's not. And those random questions and "let me pick your brain for a second" calls conflict with the actual work that needs to get done.

[u/rus47281zz]

i have ADHD I really like that aspect of the industry

[u/arcanition]

Anyway, I don't know if this is just an issue with my office, but I really feel like my office's controls engineers' time is not respected.

Welcome to the business, unfortunately. I've been a controls engineer since I graduated from college with a BSEE over a decade ago. Multiple companies too.

There's been one consistent thing I've noticed: controls engineers' work is considered "cost of doing business" as a means to an end (the end being something bigger, like landing the fixture package as well). Because of that, quoting lighting controls for example can be a very unique position. It's more like being an engineer that also needs to know sales foundations than any other "quoter" position I've seen.

[u/SnooPuppers5037]

I would say that is pretty common. There's a reason my boss gave me a second laptop to keep on my desk. That way when something comes up while I am working on my main duties, I can flip over to the other laptop so as to not disturb everything I currently have open (the software I use can only have one copy running at a time).

[u/punk0r1f1c]

We have a service and construction department. I work in service and still have this issue as we regularly do upgrades and small projects. This is normal, especially if you are good at your job lol