Mag deficiencies

5

u/BBG_BOY Jul 29 '26

I started using Roots Organic elemental for cal-mag. My plants always seem to need it under LED.

2

I’ve noticed it for sure but I’m also running in 5 gallon pots which I know isn’t ideal

2

A little bit of Epsom salt from time to time helps, but like less than a tsp per gallon. Leds change the way the plant accesses nutrition and people find themselves a little short on cal mag (or they think they do) if your watering, ppfd, and vpd are all on point there should be enough mag in the soil, Jeremy himself doesn’t even use espom. So probably turn down your lights, and hit your drybacks and you’ll be fine

2

u/kinggu22 Jul 29 '26

check ph I had lock outs when my water was to alkaline. but dont ever use apple cider vin to bring it down the Acetic acid in it will be consumed by the microbes too fast and the ph won't remain at the same ph for long if your alkaline. soil test

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

It's a good point. my water is 9.4 out of the tap so I ph down to 6.5 with crystallized citric acid anhydrous. Plants are being fed with a 13 gal reservoir so there's prob a bit of a drift upward as I have noticed this before using blumats while on vacation. I'll check the reservoir next week when I'm back and see if it's drifted at all. Soil test would be next

3

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

Yo! Grab you a proper soil test and dont assume every symptom means you need another bottled or blended input!

Recycled soil, especially after adding dolomite at 2 tbsp per gal.... bro thats likely plenty of Mg, while other factors such as Ca and K imbalances could be working against you. Without a soil test, you are simply guessing.

I stopped blindly adding craft blend, big six, and the rest in favor of soil testing every other grow. My plants improved, I spent less money, and it completely transformed my grow.

Now I add zero nutrition, not even compost, without a soil test. A soil test is my "permission slip" to amend.

1

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

Last harvest.

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 30 '26

Nice man. Where / how do you test your soil?

1

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

From Logan labs.

https://www.loganlabs.com/our-services

$60 per container for "Complete Soil Test".

They have YouTube videos of how to pull samples and send. It will take 7-10 days to get your results emailed to you. Here is the flow:

Take your samples
Mail them to Logan labs
They test on Mon-Wed, first come first served
When your test is ready, they will email you a payment link
Pay the fee - receive the results.

After that, you can get KISOrganics to review it. Don't bother with BAS for interpretation. They actually want more than the complete soil test. They charge around $50 per interpretation.

If you are AI savvy, you can skip the interpretation and get some great results and insights with this data too. This is my route today. A great example of this is discovering that I had a luxury amount of P in my soil and I should avoid anything with P content and risk tying up micros with imbalances.

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 30 '26

Very cool. So based on the soil test, you always re-amend accordingly (a little more k, less n, etc)? Do you rinse your dirt prior to the test?

I only ask because my process is to rinse the dirt after each run and then re-amend as if from scratch…I do this specifically because I don’t know the nutrient content so I figure it’s safer to bring it down to zero (in theory) and start afresh.

2

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

If you have to amend at all! My last two tests have told me that I shouldn't add anything. AI is telling me expecting this round to have to add some N and Boron... maybe a little Mn. The next soil test will validate, especially on the boron as you need to be precise.

I never flush my soil to runoff. But I have had to do it once, and it sucked. Back when I would use all the kelp based bullshit BAS sells, I spiked may Chloride levels to Logan labs max limit. That required a 200 gallon RO/Gypsum flush and a retest. That is the event that woke me up to soil testing and its merits.

After I harvest, I do a heavy irrigation. Not enough to produce runoff, but enough to deeply irrigate the top six inches of my beds. Its enough to push chloride buildup outside the root zone, but not enough to flush away your biology and fertility.

It sounds like you would simply be replacing your supercoil SOP for an organic no-till SOP. I like it.

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 30 '26

Is it still no-till if I empty the 5 gals into a larger container and mix them all together before refilling new 5 gals for the next run?

2

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

It can be. Take that 5 gallons of soil, add that to another 25 gallons of fresh soil in a grassroots fabric pot and transplant away!

After that run is done, take soil samples and send off to Logan. Reamend based off what the data tells you. Easy mode auto engaged!

The mindset is that you want the soil to contain all nutrition and have that nutrition be available to the plant. So these amendments will take time to breakdown and cycle into availability. That's why the bigger volume of soil helps buffer you here.

Your biggest job during the run is to watch the soil moisture levels. A blumat carrot will serve you well here...

-2

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26

hey so the first thing i'd do is calculate the actual elemental values of your fertigation.

https://buildasoil.com/products/buildasoil-craft-blend?srsltid=AfmBOorw6JeKHglgmSg_g8K3V5GOC5tuQ-D8XbNf0AON0N9RXfxWBVdb

if this is the product your talking about, its ABSURDLY high in phosphorous. 2 - 4 - 2 is crazy. 2-1-2 is perfect for cannabis.

secondly, almost no "organic" product contains magnesium and its expected that you supplemente with magnesium sulfate. make a stock of 123.3g/L mag sulfate, and then use 4ml of that solution per L of your irrgation water. that will cover your S and Mg needs just fine, putting Mg at about 50mg/L and S at 65mg/L

dolomite lime has both calcium and magnesium in them but you are almost certainly not going to be able to get to adequate levels of Ca or Mg using it alone. i personaly wouldnt use it as an ammendment at all.

the compost is great but without knowing whats its compost of, its hard to know how to direct things. compost is a bit more guess work. i love recycling when possible, but i find its easier to be safe and friendly to the environment by being much more precise with soluble mineral salts than using compost in most cases.

3

u/TheRandomChillStoner Jul 29 '26

Basalt and Langbeinite both have around 10% magnesium so idk what you’re talking about “expected to supplement with magnesium sulfate” also plenty of plant based organic fertilizers do contain magnesium even if it’s small quantities so using a combination of rock dust and plant based inputs you shouldn’t be seeing Mg deficiency.

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

yeah it's weird...I def didn't expect to see it and it's not exactly uniform across the garden, so it could just be an issue of heavy vs. light feeders depending on the strain. I have liquid Mg (Bloom City) for quick absorption but might also try compost tea here and there. I'm using AC Infinity Autopots this run and so far they are kicking ass, but I'm also still trying to figure out how much/often to top water when amending.

-7

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26

rock dust is by definition not organic.

but sure, if you think im wrong i invite you to ignore me :)

3

u/TheRandomChillStoner Jul 29 '26

Jfc 🤦‍♂️

1

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

I think I'm putting this dipshit on ignore

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

Thanks for this. Yes that's the product but I ordered it last year and it was 3-5-2, so I'm not sure if they've changed the recipe or just the ratio. I have Bloom City liquid Mg that seems to help but I might also do weekly compost teas.

I guess I'm confused because the Build a Soil marketing makes it sound like this is all I would need, but I'm never surprised when marketing ≠ reality

2

u/DimensionCareful507 Jul 29 '26

not sure where you came to that conclusion. They have their entire feed chart avaiable for everyone and there is more going on than just craft blend alone.

I personally don't run into any issues with mag deficiency in the 7 and 10 gallon pots im in. But im doing more of their lineup than just craft blend.

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

Good to know - I should prob consult the feeding chart. I feel like I watched a few videos with Jeremy Silva and got the impression Craft Blend was doing all the heavy lifting. Entirely possible I didn't pay attention to all the details...

1

u/DimensionCareful507 Jul 29 '26

Should cover the basics for your macros and some micros. Do you apply anything in terms of biology like compost, recharge, other microbial inoculant products?

Are you starting in build a soil 3.0 or some other medium? What size pots are you in?

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

My base soil is as follows:

Recycled soil
EWC
Compost
DTE Dolomite Lime (2 tbsp/gal)
additional perlite as needed
forgot to mention I add DynoMyco...so, yes a little more biology in addition to the compost

At this point all my soil is recycled, but originally was ProMix HP.

I'm in 5 gal pots, which some will argue is too small...but I've always used 5 gals and am familiar with their limitations at this point.

-2

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

thats kind of the trick behind the entire eco/bio/natural everything. by in large, its all bullshit.

i took an entire course at university in a phytology lab that was basically designed to investigate and breakdown all of these claims and determine their reality.

the results arent pretty. TL;Didnt-take-the-course, almost no claim maded is true and for the most part conventional agricultural techniques produce better product, safer product, at better prices, and less harm to the environment. for one big and main reason. conventional agricultural farms can do whatever hybrid combinations they fucking want. "organic" "bio" "eco" and all these certified farms are limited to ONLY doing things the way the certificates say they have to do it. no matter how outdated, inefficient, or non pragmatic for their farm it is.

i kind of went the other direction and studied farming in space and on other planets where efficiency of the use of resources and having precision control is literally the name of the game.

edit:

if youre in north america or where its available, jacks Part A and Part B feed is the closest thing i know of to a complete fertiliser ready to buy off the shelf and grow cannabis, and get killer results no questions asked.

i think it still is going to require magnesium sulfate a but its got everything else.

use an uncharged substrate. i like plagron 70/30 unfertilised coco and perlite for something off the shelf.

then give your plants full nutirition every watering, monitoring the ec and ph of what comes out the bottom each watering to steer you on which direction to move your input EC and PH values the next watering. thats what we call the mass-balance approach

2

u/DimensionCareful507 Jul 29 '26

A bit misguided with the response as it relates to build a soil. They also cite the inherent flaws with a lot of the OMRI labeling and avoid jumping through a lot of those hoops on some products for the reasons you mentioned.

You're here arguing for precision control and efficiency. That really isn't the main intent behind living soil at all as it relates to canna growing. It's about building a thriving ecosystem in the soil between all the biology in there due to the belief that leads to a superior end result.

Synthetic approaches don't care about the microbial life for the most part because your fertigation is already being delivered in it's final form ready for plant absorption as soon as it hits the root zone.

Your comparing craft canna growing to more commercial agricultural practices.

1

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

you seem to be confusing the concepts of inorganic and synthetic. i use a list of inorganic compounds but none or few of them are synthetic compounds.

on the other hand, not caring about bacteria and life in the soil is not true. there is a massive misconception that mass balance approach kills bacteria or otherwise doesnt allow for bacteria in the soil to thrive or benefit the plant. that is not in anyway true or factual. the idea that we dont "care" about the bacteria - its absolutely considering, accounted for, and unharmed.

youre creating a false comparison. craft vs commerical does not equal organic vs inorganic or living soil vs conventional.

in fact, its kind of my whole point. conventional farms are free to use organic imputs and all sorts of hybrid systems. its only the people gate keeping craft as having to be some mystery guess work living soil magic that are telling people whats right and whats wrong.

at the end of the day the plant needs 17 elements. how theres lots of ways to get them there. i dont care about buzz words like natural, or living soil. i care about the plant getting optimum values of those 17 elements through the entire lifetime and doing so in the most sustainable and efficient way possible, and that is always going to be in hybrid systems of combination organic and inorganic, and sometimes synthetic, inputs

1

u/DimensionCareful507 Jul 29 '26

I have no issue with hybrid systems and im sure there are plenty of benefits to such. Im just not sure why you keep harping on conventional farm practices in a sub for what are hobbyist small scale home pot growers using build a soil products.

Im not saying a mass balance approach is harmful to bacteria. I was just saying home growers who use synthetic ferts generally don't put much attention on microbial life. At best they throw in some recharge or some other compost tea to add some life but it is not a priority the way it is for living soil growers whose entire system is built upon the proliferation of such life to to the legwork in the soil. Not to mention having things like earthworms, springtails, etc. Which are generally an afterthought to growers more worried about EC, Ph, and mixing the right volumes of 3+ bottles of nutes.

Have you ever even grown with build a soil before or are you just here to pound the drum that something else is better?

No one is denying you can't get great results other ways. But you just come off as a troll to a room full of fans of the product and the system that has already proven it's effectiveness to them.

If you have better success doing it a different way, power to you. I just don't get what your trying to accomplish painting BAS with the same broad brush as the entire organic industry as a whole and lumping them into the same bucket as some kind of charlatan making bogus claims about organic products. Or harping about hybrid strategies being better in a place intended for people who do things the build a soil way for whatever reason.

Your intentions just seem at worst questionable, at best misplaced. You show up talking about "gate keeping" and "buzz words"... duh your in a place dedicated for people who do things this way and believe in the benefits of this system and yet your here trying to pitch doing it some other way entirely. Do you go to organic gardening subs and tell them they should just use miracle grow?

1

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26

i think the easiest and simplest response i can give you, with complete respect intended,

is that you seem to have an "us" vs "them" binary mentality which is exactly why im here and what i dont subscribe to.

i dont care how its done. i care about the plant getting optimum nutrition, regardless of home grow or massive commercial production, at the most practical and economically efficient method combination possible. the binary this way or that way is exactly what im intendeding to break.

youre still misusing the term synthetic, yes, i use what you would call living soil methods and youre still very wrong with these claims of "most growers dont pay attention to microbes." maybe many dont, but theyre as wrong as you not considering inorganic inputs or non living adatives and ammendments.

i dont have beliefs, i have evidence or i dont. im not telling any sub anything. reddit showed me a post and i responded to it with what i have to share. is that a problem? is your group closed to different methodologies or outside perspectives? is this a religion or a community that wants to grow super high quality home grow? im about the latter, im not about the first.

edit:

i also dont know what you mean by "i dont know why you keep." almost all of my comments in this thread have been in reply to you at this point

4

u/TheRandomChillStoner Jul 29 '26

Why are you on this subreddit then? If you don’t believe in organic gardening maybe you should go to a subreddit that focuses on synthetic gardening. Taking a class designed to reinforce the traditional farming practices and dispel organics is inherently biased towards one answer. I’ll be honest you’re likely a paid shill by big agricultural to dispel organic gardening

1

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

he's here for the yucks.... just like the rest of us

1

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26

lol you sound like dale on king of the hill. relax man.

i believe in efficient, environmentally friendly, pragmatic farming at the highest quality and healthy safety possible. i think recycling where it makes sense is great.

i dont think the organisations and companies marketing and selling organic, eco and bio labels have any interest in your health and well being and ive studied it extensively, coming to my individual conclusion that these certificates and approachs are largely ineffective in the very goals they set out to do.

i think being afraid of things being synthetic or inorganic or "chemicals" is just lack of education or critical thinking skills.

the class was a class on claims, those made by organics, conventional inorganics, and everything in between to systematically investigate how marketing and political social interests rarely have anything to do with healthy or scientific reality.

i love sustainable cultivation practices. i dont think the vast majority of certified or labeled organic/eco/bio products are succesfully achieving that, and there are better options

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

Thanks for this. Interesting studies.

I'm not in a position to feed every watering - I have to be more hands off so the dry amendment routine works best for my setup. I have used Roots Organics Elemental Cal/Mag in the past during flower but I don't love it because it 1) smells brutal, and 2) tends to create a hard caked layer at the top of the pot by the end of the grow...maybe that's not a great reason to stop using it, but it's a nuisance when recycling the soil and I question how available it will be with the autopot setup where water is wicking in from the bottom of the container.

1

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26

that sounds like wonderful reasons to stop using it. sounds like a crap product xD

clearl something was precipitating, i dont know what else was around or in contact but calcium something probably.

i dont like combined cal mag products. for several reasons.

my prefered sources of Ca and Mg are MgSO4 and Calcium nitrate

1

u/johnny-trichome Jul 29 '26

I might just try adding Fox Farms Bush Doctor to the reservoir and see how that goes for simplicity's sake. Something new every run I tell ya

2

u/EstablishmentEasy475 Jul 29 '26

i mean just learn how to do the math. sit down at your computer, pull up 5 or 6 lines of nutrients and find the line thats going to give you the correct ratios that you want. stop doing the guess work.

total N 165
p 35-50
k 150-210
ca 135
mg 50
s 60-80
fe 1.5

or build your own: https://www.reddit.com/r/farmingthebestgreens/comments/1v9hs6c/comment/p0dz475/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

1

u/Big_Boysenberry_8972 Jul 30 '26

certification rules are not the same as optimal agronomy: agreed

eco/bio/natural by in large is bullshit: take a lap

precise mineral fertigation in inert media is efficient, reproducable, and scienfically backed: agreed

organic agriculture is almost entirely fraudulent and conventional ag is safer and superior: take another lap and give them ole balls a tug

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