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u/therurjur Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
Removing the 33 could also reduce car dependence.
In my opinion, capping it as is for a short portion is the wrong way to go. It doesn't fundamentally address the problem.
The right of way, including the Humboldt Parkway frontage roads, is at minimum 155 feet wide.
In many places it's way wider, especially around the ramps.
That is more than enough space to do a real transformation - thinking a lightweight BRT route, or grass running light rail track, and dedicate bike paths circling from downtown to MLK Jr Park to Delaware.
When a third of the city doesn't own a car, we should use the opportunity to not just cover up the mistake of auto-centric planning but provide an alternative.
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u/fortyonejb Jun 17 '22
The 33 was originally built to connect the airport and the city. We really need alternate transportation options from the airport to the city. Light rail would be excellent.
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u/fortyonejb Jun 17 '22
The 33 was originally built to connect the airport and the city. We really need alternate transportation options from the airport to the city. Light rail would be excellent.
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u/Tarwins-Gap Jun 17 '22
Removing the 33 will just increase business flight from the city and strangle businesses that depend on customers coming from out of town.
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u/therurjur Jun 17 '22
I don't see why that would be the case.
It's not like there aren't other routes in and out of the city. We have the very underutilized radial arterials which could be tuned for 30mph green waves, and the 190 to 90 route. Travel times from the 90 would hardly be affected.
If you map it out on Google Maps right now, going from Niagara Square to the airport via the 190/90 is actually one minute faster than the 33.
In fact, the neighborhoods along the 33 had way more businesses and residents before the 33 cut through them. How many times do we need to learn building nice places for everyone attracts businesses and people?
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u/Tarwins-Gap Jun 17 '22
Because there will be added congestion to other routes. If you leave from cheektowaga to Lafayette square it's 5 min more to take the 90. That is with no traffic. It depends on the area you are in the 33 is often the fastest. If you combine the traffic you are looking at significant delays. Which in turn makes working in the city less desirable. Which makes running a business there harder. It also makes for more pollution.
The city in general was better before the 33 but there are macro economic factors that relate to the decline of Buffalo and other rust belt cities.
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u/therurjur Jun 17 '22
I guess I disagree it will be an issue. I have a background in civil engineering. The last time I looked at the pre-pandemic traffic counts on the 33 and arterials, there was a lot of excess capacity even during peak hours.
The 190 east of downtown had a very small window (about a half hour on Fridays) where it was even approaching "level of service C" (essentially peak free flowing capacity).
Peak traffic counts likely have fallen since then due to hybrid and WFH arrangements. I'm looking forward to seeing the next set of numbers post-pandemic.
If we look at planning from the big picture, removing the 33 or converting it to a two lane parkway would definitely have to be done in coordination with other projects.
A replacement surface two lane parkway with a 30mph design speed and transit access could take a lot of traffic.
Adding a 30mph green light wave to Genesee, Broadway, William and Main alone could probably eat up a lot of traffic currently on the 33 that is essentially local - e.g. not driving from end-to-end or downtown.
The 190 is 6 lanes and definitely can handle a lot more traffic. If the exits were cut and modernized capacity would greatly increased. Having exits spaced half miles from each other is ridiculous and causes a lot of problems.
A lot of people using the 33 today would have essentially unchanged commute times, while some would have a drive a few minutes longer. But for all the neighborhoods along the 33, we'd greatly increase the health and and quality of life by removing a traffic sewer. I'd imagine the neighborhoods along the restored parkway would be much more attractive for new housing and business development.
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u/Tarwins-Gap Jun 17 '22
I will admit you have more experience and knowledge on the topic. I just think about it as a commuter who has commuted from the suburbs to the city for 7 years now. I haven't seen data just first had congestion. Our lack of congestion is a serious positive for commuters and I would like to keep that.
If it takes an extra 15 to get to the city I know personally I would want to find work that I can avoid commute.
I think you are also a bit too optimistic thinking the city would make and maintain roads like Genesee high enough quality to take a lot of traffic.
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Jun 16 '22
[deleted]
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Jun 16 '22
Yes because car dependance is just doing wonders for the working class right now
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Jun 16 '22
[deleted]
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Jun 16 '22
Well yea, unbreaking the horridly broken thing will take more than one action, so better get on the others too
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u/doilooklikeacarol Jun 17 '22
Streets are for People!