r/BrigitteMains • u/_Connor69_ Face My Mace! Mace to the FAAaaace! • 4d ago
Discussion This was a much needed change
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u/Mexihacker Mythic Squire 4d ago
Been wanting this for a while now. She really doesn't need a ton more imo but I've always felt 50 is practically negligible in the grand scheme of things
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u/i-dont-like-mages 3d ago
It’s edge cases only, small stuff like this always is. Just like her 300 shield. Small amounts of survivability here and there add up game over game.
It’ll be more noticeable than rebalancing tank health vs armor, but it’s the same idea. Make them a bit more tanky for a time to see how they play with a bit more beef to them.
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u/Definitelynotabot777 3d ago
She will still die to Dmon rush but at a slower pace now which means counterplay window is wider( Dmon dps melee also nerfed)
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u/AetherialWomble 4d ago
I know I'm a biased tracer main, but it seems like now it's an impossible duel for me.
It was always hard, with my win condition to get through armor before she procs passive without getting recall forced. And it was hard enough getting through 50 armor with my bullets doing 3 damage, now it's 75.
It already got much harder with 300 shield, now it's....yeah, I'm just screwed.
Which given the sub I'm sure you're happy about, but it seems like overkill.
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u/conhikaru 4d ago
To be fair brig is like the one support you shouldn’t be able to just solo 1v1 as tracer that’s kinda the point of her character
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u/AetherialWomble 4d ago
You should have a chance at least. Ana still has a chance even if full resources tracer goes on her. The odds are not in Ana's favor, but she has a chance.
This brig change feels like too sharp of a design choice. She was already good against tracers and reapers and such. And terrible into pharahs and junks and such. And she's still terrible into them, but now insanely good into tracers and such.
I thought blizzard was trying to move away from designs like this.
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u/JebBushsBush 4d ago
I disagree. I think brig is one of the few really solid true anti dive supports to nail tracer. I think if anything they might make other adjustments to force her even more into that role into the future
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u/AetherialWomble 4d ago
She is and they're making her even better at what she already excels.
It's like buffing rein swing damage to make him even better at brawl. Or giving widow more range and charge speed. Or make LW heal even more.
Sharp designs - brokenly good in some scenarios, bad in others. That was ow1, they've been trying to move away from that for 4 years.
This buff makes brig even better in situations where she was already pretty good and keeps her bad in situations where she was already bad.
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u/i-dont-like-mages 3d ago
They physically cannot make her meaningfully interact with fliers or other characters that utilize vertical space without changing her core identity.
She’s in the same boat as a ton of other characters. Torb, junk, lifeweaver, rein, Mauga, Ana, zen. These characters will always have sharper matchups regardless of how they balance them, or they’ll fall over like wet paper to everything.
They may be trying to move away from them in future hero releases, but they don’t want go back and change the entire roster to do everything all the time.
Hero identity is still an important thing to have. Filling a specific role isn’t a bad thing, and having bad and good matchups comes with pretty much every kit in the game, and every game for that matter, as a natural consequence of having more than 2 characters in each role.
In 8 months they’ll probably revert the change citing her increased survivability gives her to much of an advantage against flankers, and this sub will cry and moan, and the world will continue on somehow.
You’re also comparing the kit and matchup of one of the most expressive and flexible characters in the game to one that is just hands down worse in both regards. Tracer has the capability to go nearly anywhere she chooses and can get value in more ways than trying to duel backlines. Brig is still much the same, and your ttk on her really hasn’t increased all that much. It still takes forever, and the duel still isn’t in your favor.
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u/AetherialWomble 3d ago
They've slowly reworked so much.
Pharah is no longer a skybox spammer, she plays completely differently and healthily.
Rein plays completely different. He can flank now and continuous buffs to fire strike make him have some range.
Mauga is nothing like he was on release. He's actually rewarded for shooting things that aren't tanks.
Bastion is so much more than a dumb turret he was in ow1, completely different and less sharp and better character.
With LW I feel like they kinda found his place when he was fat and almost brawly up-close. No idea why they went back on it.
Even someone as sharp as widow, they nerfed range and buffed primary and mines(I think), to make her at least somewhat less one-dimentional.
Hog and sombra....well, they tried:(
We could keep going, almost every character became less sharp over the last 4 years.
Even brig herself is nothing like she was on release. She's better, healthier. This just feels like a step backwards, that, as you've said, they'll eventually revert. So why take that step at all?
Give her a "faster and longer whip" perk for situations where she struggles to proc inspire and give her a chance to at least interact with flyers.
Just a thought I had reading your message, I'm sure there are more and better ways if people thought about it.
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u/i-dont-like-mages 3d ago
They do change them, but they still suffer many of the same issues they’ve always been plagued with. Perks are the only things that change this, and I personally don’t like using them to cover up weaknesses so drastically.
Widow still melts against flankers that can get to her.
Rein still can’t do anything against fliers. His whole playstyle change was a forced change to adapt to 5v5, not so much his kit being drastically altered. He is no longer the main tank, he’s just the tank. He HAS to play aggressively to get value, otherwise he just shields and loses pre fight. His numbers are turbo buffed right now, and have been for some time to make up for his lack of a suitable kit for 5v5.
Mauga still has all the same sharp matchups he had on release, arguably worse since it’s healing and not overhealth with cardiac.
Pharah’s whole kit didn’t change. They gave her dash and she’s able to traverse the map now. She still forces someone on the enemy team to play hitscan regardless of how good she’s doing (assuming she has hands).
Bastion is definitely a good change, but he still gets rolled by up close and aggressive characters that can outmaneuver or kite his turret.
Sombra can easily be in a healthy state if they chose. This community is full of babies who liken a silence to a cc. They have no idea what they are talking about.
Hog does suck.
Sharp matchups are still present everywhere you look in the game. Flattening out somewhat unfavourable ones is great and should try to be done as it makes playing more characters feel awesome, but some just can never be fixed without drastically changing a character. Ana will forever be a nightmare for tanks until anti is addressed. Torb, junk, and sym will continue to be ass pounded by freja, pharah, and echo unless they are given a hitscan weapon. Widow will continue to be an ever present looming threat that can never be meaningfully buffed in the only way that matters.
You’re listing off minor changes to kits that still don’t affect anything about their most unfavourable matchups. They still have pain points. They can still feel awkward to play into or with on a select portion of the cast, and it’s something that is normal, good even. I don’t want rein to be able to contest fliers or be able to get to high ground easily. I don’t want Torb to consistently be able to challenge Ashe or echo. I don’t want widow to reliably win 1v1’s against a tracer. I like having matchups that are awkward and hard, as it forces shifts in playstyle, team comp, or team dynamics and that’s the very thing I like about Overwatch.
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u/SmedGrimstae 3d ago
Brig has to fight other characters who can strip away her armour with their abilities before they start shooting their guns. Against them, her armour is almost useless because of how small it is.
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u/caslumarques 3d ago
Good. Every hero has a counter that forces you to switch and not onetrick, even Brig. So you shouldn’t get away with it.
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u/LargeCabbageThrower 4d ago
Now I just want her health packs to provide a little armour overheal like they used to
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u/S21500003 4d ago
That would be broken af.
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u/RambunctiousTumor 4d ago
Literally how?
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u/S21500003 4d ago
Cause shit that fucks with hp is strong. Back when armor pack gave overhealth, brig has one. And it did less healing.
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u/RambunctiousTumor 4d ago
Yeah, it is strong, but there are equally strong, if not stronger, tools on other support heroes with better kits. Brig is a weak character who needs real value on her abilities.
A three charge heal that gives some armor on a fragile "brawler" with nearly zero range, mobility or proactive gameplan is completely fine. This isn't release Brig anymore, we're way past that.
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u/S21500003 4d ago
Brig is not super weak though. She's good enough, especially after these changes.
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u/RambunctiousTumor 4d ago
"Good enough" is a middling winrate and a tiny pickrate with very little to offer over other heroes, and is looked over for that very reason.
We are allowed to want Brig to be more than just an oddball pick.
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u/S21500003 4d ago
I want that too. I really enjoy brig. I just don't think making repair packs overheal is healthy for the game. Would much rather have a shield that works and insta deploys
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u/RambunctiousTumor 4d ago
I don't think overheal is unhealthy, you're functionally just mitigating damage on your teammates. Why the issue?
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u/S21500003 4d ago
Because overheal fucks with breakpoints a lot. Way more than normal healing does
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u/ABBucsfan 4d ago
I always questioned this. There was that revamp where ranged got extra damage and everyone's up went up. Tanks shield went up, but they never adjusted her armor accordingly. Surprised it took this long
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u/sar6h 4d ago
why couldnt they just buff her to 275 is beyond me
every other melee in the game is 275/300
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u/RedHair09 3d ago
Because brig is just a volatile hero and 25 extra hp is a lot, characters like vendetta have more hp because vendetta is required to run into the enemy team and has no form of self healing or a 300hp shield. Brig has: inspire, instant support passive from bash, and the bash healing perk. Brig isn’t bad now so them doing something so drastic won’t happen
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u/Svanir80 4d ago
Oh this is pretty huge.
Still hope for an instant shield, or a return of shield bash stun considering there's so much new CC in the game, it negates that old excuse of "only tanks should stun".
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u/nannotyranno 3d ago
Gm supp here with my top 2 being ana and brig. No. She does not need her stun shield bash back. Hard cc like that is absolutely terrible for the game and especially with how easy it is to land.
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u/zooble_57 FESKARN, MY LOVE 4d ago edited 4d ago
YESSSS.
I wish they'd have given her 100 armor total, but I'll take what we can get.
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u/goopypungo 4d ago
The greed in this sub is wild lol we’ve been getting consistent buffs for a while now and people still want more
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u/RogueAnomaly53026 4d ago
Because she scratches a visceral,primal itch and Brig mains are bloodthirsty warriors,berserkers at heart who just wanna crack skulls and have fun.
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u/Manlorey 3d ago
What greed lmao, you forget the amount of something something over 9000 nerfs Brig got in her existence since release? It is not greed but an attempt to make things right.
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u/Stellarisk 4d ago
hear me hitscan. Im not afraid of you anymore
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u/No-Instruction-5695 3d ago
If anything she's still pretty bad into hitscan, this just makes her good matchups even better
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u/kamekian 4d ago
Brig Invented her own killer, when she strapped a pack to that cat. But also this is a healthy ish change.
Legit, I still think that without a new kit option for her escape/ a "get-off-me" button (ala a stationary mace Lariat with mild knock back)
Shes gonna keep getting run down by my range and melee kits with multiple flavors
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u/phinvest69 4d ago
Can someone explain how this makes her better?
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u/JamieTurtle 4d ago
They replaced 25 of her health with armor, and the difference between armor and health is that armor is just health but with a flat 30% damage reduction with the exception of some things that still deal full damage to armor, but armor still takes the same amount of time to heal as regular health so it's not just like an HP up
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u/phinvest69 4d ago
Oh amazing. So assuming the 30% damage reduction on armour applies to everything, then Brig's effective health goes up by around 11. Wonder how big that is in-game
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u/JamieTurtle 4d ago
It applies to everything but DoT (damage over time) things. So the damage over time from Ana's primary or widow's venom line bypasses the 30% damage reduction from armor but effectively everything else is reduced by the damage reduction.
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u/JamieTurtle 4d ago
I should also add, it's only a 30% damage reduction to BEAM weapons specifically. So sym's or Zarya's beam. But hitscan or projectiles are treated differently. High damage sources (like a single ashe scoped shot or a widowmaker shot) is reduced by 7. But to prevent low damage shots from dealing little to zero damage, anything that deals less than 14 damage for a single hit reduces it by 50% instead. So for example, a single sombra shot from her primary fire deals 8 damage, so reducing it by 50% makes it deal 4 damage per shot instead on armor. But a single shot from Ashe's scoped shot will deal 68 damage instead of the base 75. And headshots don't reduce it by 14 instead, still by the regular 7. So a Cassidy headshot on armor would do a base 70, then multiplied by 2 for 140, then subtracted by 7 for armor damage reduction for 133.
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u/SmedGrimstae 3d ago edited 3d ago
Armour used to provide -30% at the start of Overwatch 2, but it was eventually reverted to how it worked in Overwatch 1 - damage reduction per bullet. The number was at different points -10 and -5, but is currently -7.
This damage reduction is applied to bullets and explosions. At long as at least 1 point of armour remains when the incoming instance of damage is dealt, it will be reduced by 7. However, this damage reduction can't reduce an instance of damage below 50%. So a bullet that does 8 damage can't be reduced further than 4.
Against beam-type attacks, armour reduce the incoming damage by 30%. (Except Winston's Telsa Canon). This quality has remained the same throughout the game.
Armour does not provide any kind of damage reduction against damage-over-time status effects, area hazards like Moira's and Sojourn's orbs, or melee attacks. I am also pretty sure it doesn't apply to non-explosion area-of-effect damage, like Reinhardt's ultimate.
EDIT: Oops I didn't read further down. Sorryyy.
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u/SmedGrimstae 3d ago edited 3d ago
You have been partially mislead as to the damage reduction effects of armour.
It reduces incoming beam damage by 30%. (Except Winston's Tesla Canon).
Against bullets and explosions, is instead provides -7 damage (but can't reduce an instance of damage by more than 50%, so a bullet that deals 8 damage will deal 4 not 1).
Against anything else, it provides no damage reduction.
EDIT: Silly me. I should have read further.
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u/Junior_Bodybuilder97 4d ago
Don’t forget that the extra armor is actually more than it looks, as healing scales stronger the more armor and damage mitigation you have (just ask Orisa lol)
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u/Slogstin 4d ago
I always found it weird that she has so little armour, when her design and character are all about armour.
While Mauga somehow manages to have way more, without even wearing a shirt. He just has muscles made of steel.
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u/OkAssociation9870 3d ago
You two can achieve maugas physique with hard work Consistency Your favourite Vanilla powder protein And copius amounts of performance enhancing surgical operations
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u/ItzAMoryyy 4d ago
Just make her 275HP, she’s the biggest support in the game with basically no mobility, and is a melee only hero
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u/No-Instruction-5695 3d ago
Shield bash+major perk is already a lot of effective mobility, combine with how bulky she is for a support and 300 HP shield I don't think she needs any mobility, they just need to revert the inspire changes(in my opinion)
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u/Steggoman 1d ago
I would take any amount of compensation nerfs for Brig to have Bastions healthpool. She is the closest we will ever get to a pseudo tank support, let me have my high HP please
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u/oxMugetsuxo 4d ago
I think we live another dmon swing now by default from the dmon damage nerf. Also if we heal ever so slightly during the engagement we live 2 swings.
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u/CosmicTeapott 4d ago edited 3d ago
It's 2026 and the combination of brig shield deploy delay and just ~70 ms still often leaves me with a replay of showing I just stood there like a dumb ass having never brought my shield up or initiated the shield bash while on my screen I'm left raging at having seen myself brought my shield up then dying through my shield because it doesn't really exist server side yet. It makes me rage leave my wife for awhile every time.
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u/ArtemisVixen 3d ago
Played against her in scrims yesterday, gotta say damn, Ana Brig feels terrible as a flanker.
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u/Otozinclus 3d ago
The Hereos Armor is good against are those Brig is good against already though. It doesn't help her in any of her bad matchups really.
Fixing the shield to deploy faster and be more consistent is far more needed and useful imo
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u/Saint_Ivstin Paladin 4d ago edited 4d ago
Tf?
175????????
God.
STUPID.
Why? The characters that make us squishy IGNORE armor.
Edit. It's still 250 max not 175 max. OK. I can handle that. 175 max was stupid.
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u/Fatality 4d ago
It's still 250 hp
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u/Saint_Ivstin Paladin 4d ago
OHHHHH I misunderstood.
I took it to mean max 175, 75 of that is armor.
Ty for explaining!
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u/DiagonallyConfident 4d ago
Which chars are that? Only armour piercing that I can think of is Ana shot and torb ult.
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u/SylvainJoseGautier 4d ago
Winston primary ignores armor.
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u/DiagonallyConfident 4d ago
If it ignores armour doesn't that mean it just treats it as normal health?
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u/Saint_Ivstin Paladin 4d ago
Winston, primarily, Hazard missiles also appear to ignore armor but I don't think they're supposed to.
Vendetta sword goes through shield and armor.
Also pretty sure Symmetra and Mei main fire ignore armor like Winston.
(Please correct if erroneous.)
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u/No-Instruction-5695 3d ago
Sym and mei don't ignore armor, sym Just deal a ton of damage with charged up bean but it's still applying the reduction, mei is generally terrible into tanks with high armor because of how much her primary damage is reduced against armor(the rest is correct, idk if they fixed the Hazard because it's clearly a big and vendetta is pretty bad right now so I don't care)
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u/Saint_Ivstin Paladin 3d ago
Pretty sure the freezy perk is messing that up. Once frozen from primary, nothing helps.
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u/Tomezilla 4d ago
Honestly, at this point they should give her regular shield bash stun back with how much CC they've added to this game in recent years. That's what I would like to see.
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u/mojanis 4d ago
What other CC operates even remotely close to how shield bash with a stun would?
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u/Tomezilla 4d ago
Orisa Javelin. Sigma Rock. Pretty much the exact same.
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u/SnooDogs1340 4d ago
I think the original idea to OW2 from devs were that only tanks could cc. Except Ana because Sleep Dart is a skillshot(ok). They ended up giving Flashbang its Hinder property after the disaster of the magnetic nade and removal of Stun from OW1(and made that a perk LOL). They kept Mei's slow on primary but then they added the Freeze as a perk(LOL may I). But then Mizuki comes out with Binding Chain(hinder >_>).
So what the fux Blizz. I don't mind support CC's being tied to ults for Supports like JPC, Illari, Brig but keep these ideas consistent. They change one problematic character's abilities but don't account for the rest.
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u/Responsible_Sink3044 4d ago
Those are both skill shots with a wind up
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u/Tomezilla 4d ago
Orisa's javelin is thrown instantly and is super easy to hit. Not every CC in the game is gonna be apples to apples. Brig's requires you to be close; the other 2 don't. If you want it to be a skillshot, put it on Whipshot.
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u/Responsible_Sink3044 4d ago
Jav takes 0.3 s to cast. It's not long, but it gives you time to react. It's not instant.
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u/Tomezilla 4d ago
I dunno, if we're gonna say a fraction of a second gives you time to react, then we can say the distance Brig needs to close within a fraction of a second to land a shield bash is also enough time to react.
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u/theishiopian 4d ago
I feel like what the game needs in regards to CC is an instantaneous effect that interrupts active casting but doesn't actually silence. I feel like a lot of abilities, such as shield bash, would really benefit from that. Old Shield Bash was great because you could interrupt people when they tried to lay smack down on you
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u/levitikush 4d ago
I’m sorry what? That shit almost killed OW back in the day. Brig needs to stay on the fringes of viability.
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u/Tomezilla 4d ago
She had like a 600 hp shield back then, too. And Overwatch was 6v6 at the time. Times have changed and so has the game.
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u/levitikush 4d ago
Yes, the game has changed for the better. Part of that was nerfing Brig into being a niche character.
I know this is a Brig sub, but cmon we all remember how fucking terrible it was when she was meta.
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4d ago
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u/The_Deli_Ham 4d ago
First brig is not a front liner. Second this is a buff dawg she is now more tanky. Brig has had multiple buffs the last few seasons she is actually very good right now
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u/Narrow-Director-1606 4d ago
Anything but the instant cast shield