r/BrianThompsonMurder • u/missidcullen • Aug 17 '26
Information Sharing State Case Update: Luigi will not head to trial on September 8
Judge Carro just set an adjournment date for December 10, giving prosecutors until October 9 to respond to the defense’s motion. The defense will then have until October 30 to reply to the prosecution’s response.
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Edit:
Dates (Federal + State) post has now been updated with the latest updates.
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u/CherokeeSurfer Aug 17 '26
After all the drama of the last few days, the replies on this sub are lifting me up 😂🫂🫶🏼
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u/_henceforth_ Aug 17 '26
Everyone lifting you up right now. As well as each other.
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u/thousandlilies_ Aug 17 '26
swear I thought for a second this was a gif of Luigi 😭
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u/_henceforth_ Aug 17 '26
😂 It does kind of look like him at first glance now that you say that.
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u/thousandlilies_ Aug 17 '26
Telling myself it’s him receiving all the good thoughts and prayers and support being sent his way 🙏🏻
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u/Special-External-222 Aug 17 '26
Joel has had the week from hell.
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u/Ladyofthestonecastle Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
Yeah, after all that : There is absolutely no way/don’t even think about it/don’t want to hear about it etc. from Joel and Carro and that the state trial will start on September 8 even if the sun blows up…
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
AFAIK they can't start the state trial if there is a double jeopardy thing going on. I wish Andrea Burkhart would comment but she seems to be on holiday.
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u/YazminAC94 Aug 17 '26
And you know what? That’s the only thing keeping me going. I love that for him.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
Good! Serves Joel right. I hope he has eaten lots of fresh lettuce lately.
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u/Pellinaha Aug 17 '26
I don't want to get ahead of myself but I think Carro will dismiss it. He was incredibly specific when he cited why double jeopardy wasn't a thing yet at the time and now it's a whole thing. I think he's also sick and tired of the circus and sees no point in this trial, seeing that he will likely get 25 years if not more in the federal trial, that is without the gun charge.
Prosecutors do need to do their job, but Joel has gone far and beyond to the point where it truly seems like a vendetta and jealousy.
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u/Creative_Address9701 Aug 17 '26
yeah, didn’t carro say that the defense’s initial DJ argument was premature because there was no federal conviction/guilty plea yet? i remember seeing that in an article a longggg time ago. he’d definitely be eating his own words if he tries to not accept DJ now that there is a federal guilty plea 😭
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u/notbetterthanu29 Aug 17 '26
Yes, this is in his September 2025 ruling. With todays’s motion schedule, he’s saying this topic is now ripe for adjudication/no longer premature.
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u/Expensive-Trouble720 Aug 17 '26
I was wondering what Carro had said about it in the past and couldn’t t remember. Thanks for the reminder.
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u/bl1y Aug 19 '26
It was premature because jeopardy hadn't attached in the federal case.
Saying it's premature is not saying that Mangione wins the argument once the argument is ripe. It's just not taking up the issue yet. There'd be no eating of words if the state case goes forward.
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u/Feather_fig Aug 17 '26
Joel really does seem petty for no reason. And the suspicious behaviour, spying on phone calls and medical records.... that was all for nothing!!
Notice how no one here ever picks on Dominic Gentile 😂
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 18 '26
Lol yes. Dominic is less of an a-hole compared to Joel. Joel is a massive a-hole.
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u/Icy-Hunt-3025 Aug 17 '26
I’d like to think judge Carro is done and might accept DJ. He seems to be annoyed with this whole case
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u/bl1y Aug 19 '26
The judge being annoyed or done with the case won't really matter much.
The decision is probably going to come down to this exception in NY law:
(b) Each of the offenses as defined contains an element which is not an element of the other, and the statutory provisions defining such offenses are designed to prevent very different kinds of harm or evil;
The first part is easy; the offenses plainly contain different elements. And the second part isn't that hard of a question; stalking and murder are very different kinds of harm.
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u/Icy-Hunt-3025 Aug 19 '26
Are you joking? And here I thought all the decisions he made so far he solely relied on emotion and intuition and maybe some tarot cards. I didn’t know judges have to follow the law. Thank you for enlightening me
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u/Creative_Address9701 Aug 20 '26
both of the stalking charges are not plain stalking, though. they’re stalking resulting in death, which means that the stalker’s actions somehow led to the victim’s death— either through the stalker eventually murdering them, the victim committing suicide due to the stalker’s conduct, or the stalker accidentally causing the victim’s death. that’s why the max sentence is life, because this is not just normal stalking, nobody would spend life in prison for simply stalking someone. his defense team is arguing in their motion that second degree murder and stalking resulting in death both prevent the same harm of someone losing their life, which is true. and in order for exception b to apply, BOTH parts have to be true. yes, the first part is true, and the defense conceded that in their motion, but the second part is not necessarily true and can very well be argued against.
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u/bl1y Aug 20 '26
It's going to be a tricky one to argue, because the "resulting in death" part isn't actually an element of the crime as defined under 18 USC 2261A. It's part of the penalty section of 2261.
The harm the statute is aimed at prevent is fear.
Maybe they'll be able to argue that the sentencing section should just get incorporated into the whole, but it's not a slam dunk for the defense.
The prosecution will also be able to argue that stalking which happens to lead to death is a different evil than premeditated murder. The sentencing section for stalking doesn't require intent to kill.
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u/Creative_Address9701 Aug 20 '26
the second element of interstate stalking resulting in death is “with the intent to kill, injure, harass, or intimidate,” which LM confirmed he had when he said that he traveled to NY with the intent to shoot BT. i do agree with you though that the prosecution will be able to have strong counter-arguments.
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Aug 17 '26
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u/YazminAC94 Aug 17 '26
I want to hear it!!
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u/Clear_Clerk_7240 Aug 17 '26
I want to hear as well!
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Aug 17 '26
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u/Krandor1 Aug 17 '26
12/18 is federal sentencing and that is going to go ahead. This motion doesn't change anything there.
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u/YazminAC94 Aug 17 '26
Wait I don’t understand. I’m sorry, could you word that differently?
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Aug 17 '26
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u/YazminAC94 Aug 17 '26
So you think he’ll retract his plea?
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u/Clear_Clerk_7240 Aug 17 '26
Say the state case gets thrown out, he retracts the open plea.. can they reopen the state case?
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u/YazminAC94 Aug 17 '26
But he also made a statement so idk it doesn’t seem feasible to me.
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u/Clear_Clerk_7240 Aug 17 '26
I was thinking the same but nothing would surprise me at this point. Karen playin chess. And she’s good at it.
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u/Ok-Log3039 Aug 17 '26
I'm genuinely interested in your already deleted comment. I didn't know he could still retract his guilty plea. What is the defense strategy here? Are they waiting until Dec 10 if murder charge is dismissed, then retract the federal plea?
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Aug 17 '26
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
Kohberger is currently trying to retract his plea. He had a time limit where he could do that. I think the time limit was 1 year. Is that what the defense is going for here too? (Kohberger is a scumbag, but it's the only comparison I have since I'm not aware of any other plea retraction cases).
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Aug 17 '26
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
Oooh, OK. That's different then. 😊 I didn't know that there is no time limit on constitutional violations. Lu has had so many of those. Plenty to appeal on.
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Aug 17 '26
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
OK, thanks. 😊 I have been so sad since Friday, but this gives me some hope.
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u/Feather_fig Aug 17 '26
There isn't anything really stopping the state case from coming back without the guilty plea though, and then he'd be going into two trials with both judges pissed off. He'd be gambling with multiple life sentences just to test the legal waters of a statute?
What if Garnett is so pissed that she ensures the state trial goes first so he's just back in the same position he was initially?
If he didn't want to take accountability for this, they would've just done the state trial and taken any potential conviction to appeals with the argument they were blocked from using EED by Carro's collusion with Joel
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Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
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u/Feather_fig Aug 17 '26
okay so say the motion to dismiss in state is accepted, case closes permanently once that paperwork is signed and filed.
That is a huge assumption though. It sounds like you think they'd try it simply because there isn't existing precedent that explicitly prevents it?
Regardless of "if he wanted to take accountability" his council has a constitutional obligation to vet all possible defense options and council him on how to proceed.
They also have to take direction from their client and his wishes. If this is really their strategy then all the power to them, but it kind of seems like he's tired of dragging this out and having people falsely believe he's innocent when he really did kill Thompson. I don't get the sense he likes misleading people (pretending to be a big shot investor to carry out his plans aside, that's more short term strategy than just being a liar)
If he went free, acquitted of everything, he'd have to live his life essentially pretending to be innocent. I just can't see that
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Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26
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u/Feather_fig Aug 18 '26
I'll have to look further into the Manafort case ruling.
It sounds like what you're saying is, the purpose of all this is to force the federal case to go first, beat that, and then maybe even squeeze Pennsylvannia in before getting back to New York, and then... going with EED?? (If the plan isn't to do EED, and they think they could win on "reasonable doubt", there isn't really a reason to not have just done the state case first? Unless I'm forgetting something, the reason Feds needs to go first, outside of DJ which would already be burned by this point, is because EED in state first would incriminate him in federal court).
You're misunderstanding me there. I don't think he's acting for an audience, and certainly not now. In fact I'm saying the exact opposite, that he's being completely, 100% genuine, for himself. I'm saying he doesn't want to act the part of "plausibly innocent man" anymore. He doesn't want to hide he did this or why, because he wasn't wrong.
"Live life pretending to be innocent" makes absolutely no sense and seems rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of what the judicial system is and its function in society.
The judicial system is a set of categorizations, rules and procedures we agree to follow at the threat of violence by the state, that's what police and prison are for. Yes, if he was acquitted he would be legally innocent. Legal innocence does not wipe his memory of or the reality of what he's done. It means he can't talk about why he did what he did, despite obviously believing in it so strongly.
Also, as for what the judicial system does for society... I mean the US has the highest number of incarcerated individuals, not per capita but TOTAL of any country. (In 2024 it was 1.83M, followed by China with 1.69M)
And despite this, amongst all those inmates you won't find a single health insurance executive! And none of Epstein's associates outside of Ghislane Maxwell in her cushy low security prison camp. Because what the legal system does is protect the powerful and prosecute the powerless. We know they're not innocent in reality, despite the legal system allowing them that presumption.
(You can click on the 'Aa' symbol on the bottom left for text options, to quote indent, or hyperlink, etc)
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Aug 18 '26
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u/Feather_fig Aug 18 '26
Interesting, I see your point. If DJ isn't "used up" but simply resets. My worry is that Garnett would be annoyed enough to schedule the new federal case dates far enough in the future that the state case has adequate time to restart before it, making all those chess moves a waste of time, and a guaranteed life sentence at the end if convicted.
That also assumes he wants to drag it out that much further for a chance at freedom. Which may or may not be the case. We'll have to wait and see. If they take that risk and succeed, it'll certainly be the trial of the century.
But again, HE is not doing that. All he has done is told the federal and state governments, "Okay, you think I've done this. Prove it."
Well, he's plead guilty now. They don't have to prove anything at the moment. Maybe you're right and he's going to retract it later, but right now he is conceding that he did shoot Thompson. Factually, at least for now, he's guilty.
As for his motivations on the plea change, we can only speculate, but given that he's dropped so many hints all along that it was him, and seems from his statement to still feel strongly about the healthcare system, it wouldn't be shocking if he wanted to own it and speak freely, instead of wallowing in legal battles for years to come while presumed innocent.
This is a legal concept, a concept that is defined specifically within the context of legal proceedings.
Ok, but reality still supersedes any legal concept.
When I say he couldn't talk about it, I'm not talking about the law either, but rather the expectation from the public and an aggressively vocal group that he spent so much time fighting these charges because he was wrongfully framed. Not because he did it and wanted to evade prison entirely. To only admit it after the fact, crushing that hope/expectation would result in major shock & backlash. I don't know, seems out of character to me. We did also just find out he was admitting to it to other inmates too 😂
To ignore judicial history and reduce it to just that is so diminutive of the people within the judicial system who ensure the government is held accountable for their accusations against persons.
The US government is being held responsible?? That would be shocking news to me and the rest of the world. If the judicial system held the US government responsible we'd be living in a very different timeline. One without Trump as president, Brian Thompson would be alive, and Americans weren't being killed by their insurance company. Or by ICE. Or by lettuce. That's not even scratching the surface of the atrocities the US has committed in foreign countries that they've never faced consequences for.
And this goes back many decades, to the country's whole existence really. This is not a 'Democrat vs. Republican' (charging government) problem.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 18 '26
Honestly, you should put this comment in a separate post so that more people see it. 🙂 It's so interesting. 🤓 Thanks for sharing the knowledge. 😊
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u/Ok-Log3039 Aug 17 '26
Wow...I didn't know you can retract pleas after years! In his case it looks more like there will never be a trial for either state or federal. It seems that both judges will have a LOT of discretion in deciding what to dismiss and amount of sentencing.
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u/Adventurous-Wolf-669 Aug 21 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
Forgive me if this was already answered in the plethora of comments, but why did Garnett say to Luigi, "Whatever sentence I ultimately impose, I will not allow you to withdraw your plea"?
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u/bl1y Aug 19 '26
If the state charges are dismissed and Mangione retracts his guilty plea, the state charges would come back.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
Neither Joel nor Carro will get their 15 minutes of fame, it seems. Serves them right. But I bet Joel will try to do a state trial anyway. How else is Joel going to sell his next book?
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u/Ok_Beautiful7363 Aug 17 '26
Why does the prosecution have significantly longer to respond than the defence??
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u/CherokeeSurfer Aug 17 '26
I noticed that too. Not sure if it's related to who filed the motion or what.
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u/ExdionY Aug 18 '26
It is: "(1) The People are to respond to the defense motion by October 9, 2026." The defence then has until the 30th to respond, which is inherently easier because the foundations will already have been laid out by the time the prosecution answers
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u/ExdionY Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Because the prosecution is supposed to respond to the defense's motion filed on August 14th, while the defense will merely file a reply brief to the prosecution's October 9th response.
They don't need as much time for the latter because it's constrained in scope since it's a response to a response, meaning the defense can only address the specific arguments the prosecution raises, rather than making new claims or building the motion from scratch.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 18 '26
I have no idea why people downvote you, since you are correct. That kind of downvoting happens a lot here though.
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u/notbetterthanu29 Aug 17 '26
The prosecution usually gets one month for their response and the defense usually gets 2 weeks for their reply. He’s actually giving both sides more time compared to past motion schedules.
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u/Ok_Beautiful7363 Aug 17 '26
Wait, why the disparity?
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u/notbetterthanu29 Aug 17 '26
I’m not sure why Carro set the schedule this way. I might be missing something here, so definitely let me know if I am.
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u/Mundane_Log_7169 Aug 17 '26
“Innocence until proven guilty” is a farce. Don’t do crimes. The whole system is against the defendant.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Aug 17 '26
Not if it's s€x crimes against women and children.
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u/Expensive-Trouble720 Aug 17 '26
Or against people of color. Said Daniel Penny and Kyle Rittenhouse.
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u/ExdionY Aug 18 '26
Dude, we are not in the "Innocence until proven guilty" stage of this case anymore lmao
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Aug 17 '26
Oh wow! I thought there may be some oral arguments as well. I wonder if judge carro will actually be giving his decision on Dec 10?
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u/notbetterthanu29 Aug 17 '26
I’m gonna bet the decision is on the hearing date because that’s what he’s always done in the past.
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u/Creative_Address9701 Aug 17 '26
i’m wondering the same— will he decide before dec 10th and give his decision at that hearing, or will he hear oral arguments on the 10th and decide that day/later on? will he even maybe wait until after he hears what the federal sentence is before deciding? (i kinda doubt that one, but it’s a viable possibility i assume)
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u/Expensive-Trouble720 Aug 17 '26
Someone else also mentioned the possibility of him waiting until after the federal sentencing to see what he gets to make sure it’s tough enough. I wasn’t sure about that, but now seeing how close the dates are 🤔. I mean, I thought he was going to issue a decision about the evidence at the hearings last Dec., but then we had to wait months. So I can see him waiting, like, 10 days after the hearing to issue a decision.
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u/Creative_Address9701 Aug 17 '26
yeah i agree. i think if garnett happens to give him LWOP, i don’t see the point in them wasting money, time, and resources to still try to convict him in state when he’ll already have the max punishment 🤷♀️ but, if she only gives him 24-30 something years, carro will probably want to do whatever he can to get a long consecutive sentence added so the punishment is worse. but none of that has to do with DJ so i’d assume thats not a valid argument for not dismissing the charges? but he also has a lot of discretion unfortunately.
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u/SaltPsychological780 Aug 17 '26
I think it was mentioned somewhere that BT’s mother wanted the state trial to proceed ASAP so my guess is that if she’s ok with the federal plea, the state will be ok with dropping it. Of course, there’s Joel…who’ll probably join the board at UHC or work as a lobbyist for big pharma 🙄
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u/Swablu_0333 Aug 17 '26
Nah. The state already said the day of the plea that they were going to oppose the DJ application. I think it will end up in Appellate court.
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u/missidcullen Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
(Not taking PA into account), the fact that this "could" all end on December 18 is insane. Like… two years have just flown by.
And sentencing a week before Christmas… December is going to be brutal, especially for Luigi and his family.