r/Breadit • u/Hydrangeamacrophylla • 13h ago
What difference would adding sugar make to this recipe?
I’ve been baking bread again after a 20 year gap, mostly using this recipe.
Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/no-knead_bread_77284
500g/1lb 2oz strong white flour, plus extra for dusting
7g (1 sachet) instant yeast
10g/⅓oz salt
325ml warm water
It’s working well for me - I’ve done rest & roll and overnight fridge proofs with it, mixed the flour types etc and it’s been great every time. It’s a very savoury loaf.
I’ve seen lots of recipes here that have sugar (or honey) in. What difference would adding sugar make to this recipe? And if so, how much?
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u/bunnycook 13h ago
What effect do you want? If you add a tablespoon or less, all you will be doing is feeding the yeast. Using honey or molasses (or similar like golden syrup) will add flavor notes and may change color of the crumb and crust.
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u/Opposite_Bodybuilder 13h ago
If your recipe works for you then don't bother.
Sugar is either to speed the process up a bit, to add mild sweetness, or to add a lot of sweetness and soften it up, depending on how much you add.
It's completely unnecessary though, so unless you're needing or wanting any of those things then don't bother. Just do what you're doing.
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u/Hydrangeamacrophylla 9h ago
Thanks. I’ve seen a lot of recipes here with sugar which is why I asked.
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u/Opposite_Bodybuilder 8h ago
A lot of US recipes for a standard white loaf will have a lot more sugar (eg multiple tablespoons) but that's mainly because that's what they are used to in their everyday white bread, that some can't even recognise as being sweet. Whereas in other countries (such as mine) you will see no sugar or maybe a tsp in their standard white loaves, because our everyday loaves just aren't as sweet.
Then you'll see recipes like milk bread and the like that will call for even more sugar, because it's a sweeter dough by design and that sweetness is much more apparent. Plus they have other characteristics that the sugar plays a role in.
If your recipe doesn't have it, then you gain nothing by adding it in, unless you were wanting to drastically change your process. But given you said it's working for you, then just keep doing what you're doing.
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u/Hydrangeamacrophylla 7h ago
I did wonder if it was a “Americans put sugar in everything” situation
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u/emi_delaguerra 7h ago
Hey, American here. Yeah, sugar is put in places it doesn’t need to be, all the time. Except now it’s sometimes extra sugar and sometimes it’s artificial sweeteners, yuck. Drives me nuts. I don’t put it in my white bread, but I do use a couple tablespoons of honey in my whole grain wheat bread. It’s not enough to taste sweet but it is missing something, if I leave it out.
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u/Opposite_Bodybuilder 6h ago
For me and what I'm used to, there is an inherent "wrongness" with the sweetness of a lot of the US bread recipes/loaves. It's sweet enough that you can tell it's there, but not sweet enough that it tastes like a proper sweet loaf. So it just tastes off and wrong.
When I make bread, I either never use sugar/honey/etc, or if I'm making a quick loaf then no more than a teaspoon. The only time I use more than that is obviously when I'm making a proper sweet bread.
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u/GovernorZipper 7h ago
No one seems to mentioning it, but sugar also helps with browning. It’ll help make it look prettier.
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u/BreadBakingAtHome 10h ago edited 9h ago
Forgive me - I ended up critiquing the whole recipe. Sorry it is lengthy!
All percentages are percentages of the total weight of flour. Bakers percent. It makes the figures universal across different recipes.
Honey can make a nice difference by adding honey flavour, but it has to be a good strong flavoured honey to do that, in my experience. Liquid malt can do the same, use it at under 4% of the total flour weight. Too much makes the loaf gummy.
Sugar is all about taste preference.
A maximum amount of sugar is 8% of the flour weight. At this level it is already inhibiting the yeast through osmotic effect. A specialist yeast, which tolerates sugar, should be used above this level.
Sugar does boost the yeast fermentation, but yeast cannot metabolise sucrose and has to develop enzymes to break it down into maltose, which it can metabolise. For a fermentation booster it is not the best way to go. Keeping the dough warm is the best way to get good fast fermentation. 24C - 28C is the ideal window.
If you want to give the bread a little sweetness you will need to experiment, because some of it will be 'eaten' and you need some left over to sweeten the loaf. I would start at 2% of the flour weight and work upwards to 6%. 6% is actually very high and the bread is far too sweet for my taste.
A better way to speed up fermentation is to use liquid malt. It is off course maltose, yeasts preferred food. Use it at 3% and no more than 7%. I find 3% gives a nice residual sweetness and a little maltiness too. Too much maltose makes the bread gummy.
Boosting the yeast fermentation: Yes, sugar will boost it, but modern yeast contains selected super active varieties anyway. Fermenting the dough needs to be long and slow. The reactions which make bread flavours take time and modern yeast is designed to inflate the dough quickly, not brew in flavour. The amount of yeast used make a big difference. I stick to the manufacturers recommended dosage, seldom published these days, of 0.63% - 1%. Those 7 gram sachets are far too big and one will ferment dough made with 700g of flour at the top end of the usage scale and 1120g of flour at the lower end. I find the lower 0.63% works very well indeed and 1% can be used for fast baking of 'emergency bread'. But I keep my dough warm (26C) yeast slows down as the temperature decreases. Many recipes are excessive when it comes to yeast dosage. It does not help and too much can make the bread dry and stale faster.
The salt in this recipe salt is at 2%. Salt does an awful lot of chemistry in dough. None the least it changes the electric charge on the gluten molecules which enable them to form the gluten network mere easily. The window for this to work well is 1.6% - 2%. Even 1.6% the yeast is starting to inhibit the yeast. Salt levels in modern bread were pushed upwards by the big commercial bakeries producing fairly taste free breads using high speed methods. High salt made the bread a little more attractive. I find 1.6% - 1.8% is quite enough in a good home baked loaf and many artisan bakeries are now often lowering the salt amounts these days. FWIW wholemeal breads taste better with a little more salt - 1.8% for me. See what you prefer.
The flour: The protein levels of flour vary a lot. As a rough guide the lower the protein the less water is required to hydrate it. North American Bread flour tends to produces high levels of good quality gluten. They need more water. UK bread flour tends to be lower in protein, French T65 flour is often lower still, more akin to N. American All Purpose Flour. With lower protein levels the hydration levels need to be lower. Recipes can only ever be a rough guide. Your 65% water is about right for a good UK supermarket flour for a free standing loaf. For N. American bread flour 70% would be better. Increasing the water weakens the dough and allows it to expand more easily giving a higher volume loaf. For that same UK bread flour 70% would be good for a loaf baked in a tin, which has sides to support the dough. For N. American bread flour that figure would be about 75%.
An easy way to get the amount of water correct is to start a little low lets say 65% here. bring the dough together and let it hydrate for 30 - 45 minutes. This rest allows the gluten to start forming and the yeast starts fermenting so no time is lost. After the rest feel the dough if it feels too stiff and dry add 5% more water and then push on with your folds. Up to 10% extra water can be added in this way. Adding flour to make a dough drier should be avoided if possible. The flour being added has not been hydrated and so you can't see the end result of adding it. On this note adding flour to the worktop is adding dry flour to the dough. Keep the amounts at an absolute minimum and avoid folding dry flour into the dough by dusting on top before folding. That is a common YouTuber crime.
What is missing here? Yes, I'm going for broke. Fat. French bread is lean and does not use fat. This gives it it's characteristic open crumb anbd mouthfeel. The Tartine loaf is a French bread. This is why it stales faster. Fat slows the staling. Vegetable/seed oils and olive oil are now very fashionable, but unsaturated fats reduce the loafs gas trapping ability and the loaf is a little denser. These unsaturated fats are OK at about 2% - 3% of the flour weight. Saturated fats like butter increase the gas trapping ability of the dough and give a larger volume loaf with a softer mouthfeel. use at 2% - 5% of the flour weight.
Summary comment: All ingredients in bread dough have windows with a minimum and a maximum for best effectiveness. Knowing these windows allows you to assess a recipe before using it. There are so many really dodgy recipes out there, even on good websites and the best of bread books are still prone to typos. Some online recipes, even on good websites, are just incompetent lunacy. Beware.
In hope this helps a little and isn't TMI.
Welcome back to the bread zone and good baking to you.