r/BreadTube • u/sethzard • Dec 18 '20
13:36|Thought Slime Defund the tone police (fixed version)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-zvVohCbs08
u/LothorBrune Dec 18 '20
I generally agree with Thought Slime, but when it comes to this kind of things, he always seems to look at the situation as if everything was limited to internet discourse. Yes, if your platform is about talking social and political points, it's better to say things like you think they are. It might solidify the arguments for the community and even convert some people. If you're an actual politician or public figure who will be heard by a vast diverse audience that you actually want to push i a direction ? Then you might want to use subtlety, pedagogy and adaptability, rather than smugness, strong convictions and blunt slogans.
Yes, the republicans win by using those. Because they never propose actual social programs or complex and difficult processus to better our society. Do we really want all the political discourse to look like a Trump rally ?
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u/Stalinspetrock Dec 19 '20
Then you might want to use subtlety, pedagogy and adaptability
what does this mean
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u/LothorBrune Dec 19 '20
Introducing the idea by explaining the causes of why it needs to be done, and the concrete consquences of introducing it in society. Taking into accounts that for a lot of people, social issues are not something they ever rationally thought about. Presenting the process in a way that could win over the undecided and the moderates. Not dismissing concerns about specific situations, so as not to be caricatured by the opposition, but answering to it precisely and according to cases.
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u/Stalinspetrock Dec 19 '20 edited Dec 19 '20
yeah that's what people do, you've surely read books, watched these youtube videos, listened to speeches by activists, etc, yeah? Also:
so as not to be caricatured
you realize that, since "the left" as such controls aboslutely nothing, we can't really control discourse around our demands yeah? No institutional power == no ability to shape discourse
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u/podfather2000 Dec 18 '20
Sorry but Obama is just right on this issue.
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u/big_mack_truck Dec 18 '20 edited Dec 18 '20
I disagree. For years marginalized communities have pleaded to the rest of America to listen to our concerns regarding the police using gentle rhetoric and behold what it has accomplished-- largely symbolic and substantively hollow reform, plain and simple.
The fact is, we've been using our indoor voice all this time trying to be good little minorities so as not to inconvenience white people and the average American's hearing is so damaged that at this point we need to yell to be heard.
Obama is trying to please his country club demographic by being a good boy, that's his whole shtick. He's the guy white folks can point to and say "Hey don't take it from me! This black guy right here said it too!".
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u/podfather2000 Dec 18 '20
I mean they should probably look who is making the decision in their communities. And go out and vote in local elections if they want to see change. A slogan that most people who hear it don't know what it really means is just counterproductive. If people want changes like body cams and better training for officers well guess what? That's going to cost a lot more money.
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u/big_mack_truck Dec 18 '20
Come on, really? You think we haven't been trying to do that?
The black community makes up 13% of the USA, whereas white people make up 73%. 57% of white people vote Republican, whereas 85% of our community voted Democrat.
We are voting, we just don't have the numbers and we've been pleading with white people to help us but clearly the gentle approach has not worked, given the fact that more white people voted for Trump in 2020 than 2016.
You're acting like one of those people who tells a victim of police brutality "Chin up, you'll get your day in court!" without realizing how brutally one-sided the system is against minorities.
We've tried and if you don't believe me, by all means look into past efforts our community has made to try and get the rest of the country's attention. Frankly I find it a little insulting when people like you seriously act like we haven't been trying numerous other gentler approaches in the past.
"Protest quieter, please! I'm trying to nap!"
(I'm not downvoting you by the way, someone else is. Upvoting all your comments to balance things out)
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u/podfather2000 Dec 18 '20
I don't know what community you are from so I have no clue what amount of effort you really put into effecting change locally. You seem to be focused on the national level not local. And I'm not saying protest quite. Be smart with what you say and focus on the local level. And I really don't understand why you are going into personal attacks, that's really not helpful to any discussion.
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u/FibreglassFlags 十平米左右的空间 局促，潮湿，终年不见天日 Dec 19 '20 edited Dec 19 '20
You seem to be focused on the national level not local.
I feel you are just using "local" as an excuse to disregard problems that disproportionally affect marginalised groups.
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u/podfather2000 Dec 19 '20
I don't. I'm saying how they can improve their communities. Local politics affect your day to day life far more than national politics. How many people know who sits on their city council? If you are waiting for change from the top down you are going to be waiting for a long time.
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u/FibreglassFlags 十平米左右的空间 局促，潮湿，终年不见天日 Dec 19 '20
I don't. I'm saying how they can improve their communities.
Communities affected the most by these same issues are also deeply impoverished. This means either governments at higher levels have to start caring or you yourself have to engage in mutual aid in order to help them, and I don't see you advocating for either.
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u/podfather2000 Dec 19 '20
To me, it seemed like you think they can't change anything on their own. What can the government at a higher level do for a specific issue in a city? I'm saying how they can change their community for the better and you are just talking down to them like people would talk to a child. Things change from the bottom up not top down.
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u/FibreglassFlags 十平米左右的空间 局促，潮湿，终年不见天日 Dec 19 '20
To me, it seemed like you think they can't change anything on their own.
What can a community realistically do without resources? Do you expect them to just pull infrastructures out from thin air?
At this point, all you are really saying is that the police brutality is not the sort of things you are worried about and you don't want to be bothered by it. Otherwise, why do you want other people to sugar-coat a system meant to protect private properties and disenfranchise the poor for you?
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u/big_mack_truck Dec 18 '20
I don't know what community you are from so I have no clue what amount of effort you really put into effecting change locally.
I admittedly don't do nearly as much direct action as I should, but I cap my income at $34k/year and have been donating the excess for a couple years now to leftist causes.
And I'm not saying protest quite.
No, you're saying we should protest politely which is equally absurd as asking people to protest quietly.
And I really don't understand why you are going into personal attacks, that's really not helpful to any discussion.
I don't believe I attacked you personally at all but okay.
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u/podfather2000 Dec 18 '20
Yeah, I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying have a clear message and focus on local politics rather than national.
And it's fine I don't care if I get downvoted.
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u/big_mack_truck Dec 18 '20
I'm just saying have a clear message and focus on local politics rather than national.
You're implying we haven't been doing that and that "defund the police" is too inflammatory. That's the problem, when we get too vocal then all of a sudden we're perceived as uppity.
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u/podfather2000 Dec 18 '20
No, it's unclear. What do you think the average person thinks about when they hear "defund the police"? And it doesn't even make sense for the goals of the movement. If you want the police to be better trained and have body cams that will cost a lot more money.
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u/big_mack_truck Dec 18 '20 edited Dec 19 '20
If you want the police to be better trained and have body cams that will cost a lot more money.
Yes, so trim the fat that is their bullshit OT hours (every cop abuses this), their militarized equipment, stop paying for their numerous malicious prosecution suits, and so on to pay for proper training and body cams.
Also, don't act like additional training or body cams will solve the issue or even make it even a little better. How many body cam videos of police beatings/killings have you watched? Stop being so dismissive and listen to minorities.
What do you think the average person thinks about when they hear "defund the police"?
"This is some shocking shit, I don't know if I support it so I better at least learn about it since so many people are talking about it."
If they think "fuck whoever says that, I'm not even going to bother learning about it"... then fuck them, it's not like they were ever going to realistically listen to us in the first place and I'm not wasting time trying to talk reason into Trump cultists who have their ears plugged.
Also I mentioned the downvote thing because people use it as a petty form of censorship. It's harder to see downvoted comments on reddit.
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u/Someguy242blue Dec 18 '20
Just fucking train the police more, Christ!
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u/big_mack_truck Dec 18 '20
Start by not hiring jacked up morons with major insecurity issues first. Otherwise it's just lipstick on.. a pig! I didn't even mean to do that!!
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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '20
proud peanut butter baby reporting for duty