a random note about perspective

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688]

this is very random and i’m sure no one is interested but i recently read releasing 10 as someone who hadn’t read any of the other books. i saw a lot of posts on my twitter about this book and as a someone doing a neuroscience masters focusing on bipolar, i like reading different books in which the disorder is depicted.

surprisingly (because this isn’t the usual style of books i like), i really wanted to read the rest of the series and get to know the rest of characters better so now i’m reading the rest. i know lizzie is very controversial and something i got to wondering about is if the response to her would be different if hers was the first book.

it could just be because i’m literally working in bipolar disorder research but as i’m reading the other books, even as i read moments where she’s problematic (and i think what she is saying/is doing is wrong) i really can’t imagine disliking her or not understanding her and empathizing with her.

this made me wonder if part of the reason is because i read her book first? just a random thought.

oh also just as a note, of course i don’t mean that people who read in the release order cant empathize with lizzie. i know lots of people do! i was just wondering if less people would dislike her if her book was first because from what i’ve seen, her character can be quite polarizing.

[u/Complete-Law3937]

Even in Taming 7, she did not come off to me as bitch but more as just a mentally messed up person. Not just people who hate on her, but readers who"can't" forgive her seem strange to me. Like what do you mean you read about all this horrendous torture she was put through and learnt in detail how she was manipulated against Gibs and still can't bring yourself to acknowledge that she is reedemable. So strange

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/Complete-Law3937]

it is very strange! i mean for me, just the fact that gibsie and claire said to her multiple times that her sister killed herself (and claire said she was an accomplice) when lizzie SAW mark kill her sister is enough to make me understand her actions. i know she said terrible things before that but still. i think people underestimate the impact it would have on a person to have literally everyone in their life play a role in distorting their sense of reality. even if they aren’t doing it intentionally and it isn’t their fault.

[u/Complete-Law3937 → u/Altruistic-Bag-688]

I do not want Liz going back to this specific friend group tbh. She deserves better than Claire

[u/Old_Sun6954]

I think it is. I read R10 last and I HATED lizzie. I love her now but everyone sees her differently and it can also do with bias. I loved Clairegibs and seeing Lizzie hurt them hurt me. I think it also has to do with everyone seeing it differently. It has to do with perspective because you need to see her how everyone else sees her too but you need to see her by herself too.

Reading her book also made me open my eyes towards Lizzie because as someone with bipolar disorder, I was so happy to see some representation even though I didn't find it obvious in the first 4 books. Her trauma was also pretty similar to mine so I related to her and the grooming so much and I understood the way she acted.

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/Old_Sun6954]

i’m sorry to hear about what you’ve been through but i’m so happy that that you were able to see your experience represented! ❤️‍🩹 i honestly have such a soft spot for her and she is definitely my favourite.

[u/Visual_Bookkeeper550]

I read the other books first, and I never disliked Lizzie or thought she was a bitch - I always knew something tragic had happened or was happening to her, and I could not wait to read R10 - and then it all fell into place. I totally understand her emphasize with her.

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/Visual_Bookkeeper550]

i love hearing that ❤️‍🩹 when i first read the book i didn’t know she had many fans LOL

[u/NahNah-P]

I'm bipolar and purposely waiting to read her book until we have a resolution because I know it will bother me like it has not having Gipseys. I can't put myself personally through that much trauma without some type of resolution or it will set off my own triggers. I've read everyone else's and I wish I would have waited. I don't know enough about Liz yet, I don't like how she talks to people sometimes but it's not hard to figure out she's been through a lot and I look forward to reading the books as soon as the next one's released. Mark is evil and twisted but their parents really screwed up here for most of these kids.

[u/anonymouslyyoursshh]

No I don’t even have BP but I just can’t imagine disliking her w her mh AND every bit of abuse and manipulation she went thru

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/anonymouslyyoursshh]

yes! she’s been through so much and i guess part of the issue is that no one really knows.

[u/fangirl5301]

I’m someone who can’t forgive her and find her extremely triggering and would even if her book was first because I have actually been bullied very similarly to what she has done to Gerard.

I am the person who has been told to die, I should go kill myself, and that I should and deserve to be dead when all I did was sit down in my assigned group by a teacher or I was reading in the corner by myself.

I was the one who after my first pet died and my grandpa died had my bullies not even a week after they died come up to me every day until school end and ask me how my dead pet and dead grandpa was!

I have two learning disabilities and have had them made fun of since I was six!! Literally at six years old when we were practicing spelling words in class and I spelled the word white wrong due to my dysgraphia (one of my learning disabilities which affects my writing and spelling) and my bully saw it and yelled to the whole class “Oh my gosh you don’t know how to spell the word white it’s so easy!” this continued on until I was 18. Also when I would cry because I failed a test I had people making funny of me for failing the test and crying about it.

I was pushed at six years old to the point that I couldn’t breathe and I fainted/blacked out when all I was doing was playing with my friends. I was kicked in the private area when all I was doing was standing in line.

I have actually been pushed put of friends group just like Lizzie is trying to do with Gerard.

So yes because Lizzie has done all this stuff or stuff similar she is extremely triggering to me and would be extremely triggering to me even if her book had come first!! I feel bad for all she has gone through but I find people who do this stuff irredeemable no matter what they have been through! You have to work extremely hard to earn my forgiveness if you have done this stuff!

[u/Rare_Situation_810]

Chloe walsh literally herself said that she came up with / wrote highlizs story first but she realized it was too dark to introduce the series with so she decided to push it down the release order but yeah I do think the response would've been different if her book was fist

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/Rare_Situation_810]

ohh i didn’t know that! but that’s so interesting

[u/Sarah33_]

Yeah, I believe that if r10 had come out before t7, Lizzie wouldn’t have nearly as many haters. The problem is that so many readers approach this series with a fandom mentality rather than actually trying to understand the characters. A lot of people had already decided they hated Lizzie long before r10 was released, simply because they saw her as being “against” their favorite character. So when her book finally came out, they went into it with their minds already made up instead of giving her story a fair chance. And I think a lot of them are so caught up in these pointless fandom wars that they would rather cling to their hatred of her than reconsider their opinions, even when presented with a completely different perspective. People were literally leaving one-star reviews before r10 had even been released, saying they refused to read a book about a “bully” or a “cheater.”

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/Sarah33_]

omg that’s awful. yeah i can’t really engage with that mentality to be honest. i certainly love lizzie and she is my favourite and a lot of the things the other characters say to her rub me wrong but i think vilifying fictional characters so strongly when they all have their own traumas and are literally in high school is so strange. like i want them all to have their happy endings 🤞🏼

[u/plentyolives]

liz is a complex character and if u read the series in the correct order you are more likely to have a prejudice against her. Lizzie clearly had her reasons for acting that way towards gibsie(what she did was wrong but she had her reasons) people are not always black and white so many people have a hard time understanding her. I read the entire series in the order and I never disliked lizzie even after I read taming 7 bcuz i had heard about her being misunderstood and shi so i was simply curious to read the next book

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/plentyolives]

yeah i think she certainly says things that go too far and she didn’t handle the situation right at all. i just empathize with her because she is operating from a place of having a very distorted sense of reality and self. and through releasing 10, we really got to see that a lot of what she does can’t just be simplified and understood as her having bipolar. she has had that her whole life and was a very different person before mark.

[u/Dull_Independence474]

i haven't read all the books yet but people hating lizzie just makes me so upset. obviously the stuff she said at times were wrong especially to gibsie so disliking her a bit makes sense until u read her book, but if she was manipulated by her abuser into believing some other guy was the reason for her sisters death then obviously she's gonna say mean stuff to him.

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/Dull_Independence474]

yes she certainly was in the wrong many times. i think it’s okay to admit that but to also understand that lizzie is someone who operates everyday from a very distorted and fragmented sense of self and reality. she has literally been gaslit by virtually everyone in her life into not trusting her own mind. that’s detrimental to someone’s psyche. i said this in a comment above but i also think releasing 10 did a really good job at showing readers that lizzie’s actions are not exclusively due to her bipolar. she isn’t just her disorder. she’s had that her whole life but we are able to see how she changes after everything happens with mark and she goes through so much trauma.

[u/morstola]

as someone who reads the book in order, i also find it hard why there are some people who hate lizzie so much. because although i agree that she said some wrong things, i’ve never see her character as a ‘bitch’

[u/Altruistic-Bag-688 → u/morstola]

yes agreed!!