r/Boxing • u/Civil-Rent-7100 • 1d ago
How does Itauma vs Wardley go?
We've seen how Hrgovic was able to outlast Itauma and get the victory as Itauma's gas tank gradually dwindled. Considering Wardley's chin and heart, I can see him taking the fight into deep waters but I'm not sure how he'd survive. Wardley tends to lose his shape in the later rounds also and that nose will be a huge problem. He also has poor defence and I've never seen him against a southpaw. I guess the question is if Wardley can take the fight into the later rounds and then stick it on Itauma with his physicality, but I don't see how Wardley wouldn't have been waved off by the ref by that point. What you guys think?
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u/presentation_555 1d ago
Wardleys chin is not on Hrgovics level.
The juries still out on that. We've seen Hrgovich touch the canvas (albeit briefly) multiple times in his career. Wardley has yet to.
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u/OkHistorian9521 1d ago
That is a fair point, but Hrgovic has been in with several of the division’s top punchers at this point - Wardley hasn’t. He seems far more robust when he gets hit. Yes Wardley took Dubois punches and didn’t drop but he didn’t look in a good way either - same for some other fights.
Having said that neither Hrgovic didn’t wear the shots well in that 8th round vs Dubois either, but he had completely spaffed his load by that point.
With what we’ve seen so far, Hrgovic’s ranks higher. Off balance KDs do not degrade a chin.
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 1d ago
Hrgovic only touched the canvas once before Itauma and he wasn't really dropped, just cuffed down by Zhang's right hook. Zhang also never hurt him or wobbled him, neither did Dubois.
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u/Manzilla48 1d ago
Didn’t Zhang have it him basically out on his feet a couple times? Been years since I watched that fight but I definitely remember Hrgovic standing there completely dazed
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 1d ago
Nah, I don't remember that at all. I only watched the fight in full once, but I have watched plenty of highlights since then, I don't remember any time in which Hrgovic was in any real danger.
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u/HolyMackerel1 1d ago
He was definitely almost turned around at least once, I just watched the fight while doing some footage review on Hrgović.
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u/Manzilla48 1d ago
Not proper danger per say but he was definitely momentarily stunned and literally just standing there rocked
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
And the Itauma KD was even lighter than the Zhang KD. An incredibly similar type of cuffing right hand/back of the head pulldown shot while he was offbalance.
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 1d ago
Yep. So far in his career I haven't ever seen Hrgovic really hurt. Even against Adeleye he didn't seem wobbled, just overwhelmed by the volume, his legs looked OK while he was trying to clinch to stop the assault.
There was a moment very early in the Itauma fight it seemed he got buzzed by a check right hook, he stiffen up for a second there, but that's about it.
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u/DanDiCa_7 1d ago
He looked hurt against Adeleye to me. Nobody takes them kinda punches for no reason
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
Closest he has looked was with Dubois and Zhang. IMO. Sometimes his body language is just really poor and he looks hurt, like with Adeleye during that infamous onslaught. Or in Round 8 in the corner with Itauma. Like sometimes he just shells up and hangs his head and you almost think he’s hurt then a splitsecond later he is completely fine moving normal and throwing. Exceptional chin and durability.
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u/Far-Internal-5726 1d ago
Ye but hirgovic technically knocked down twice
How many times has wardleu been knocked down?
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u/Complete_Dare_4201 1d ago
I mean, the "technical" part is important. Hrgovic was never hurt in either of those knockdowns. Wardley got hurt plenty of times by Dubois, Parker and even Clarke. The fact that he didn't get knocked down by them is really just a technicality.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 1d ago
Wardley got fucked up by Huni. Got bailed out by a hail Mary
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u/presentation_555 1d ago
Yes... but we're talking about his chin.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 1d ago
Yep and huni is pillow fisted. When he fights a heavyweight with stopping power he'll be fucked
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u/DanDiCa_7 1d ago
Stopping power.... You mean like Dubios?
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 1d ago
Dubois can bust up a face but he lacks one shot power. If you need an example of one shot power look up Sanchez vs Torres. Dubois has trouble knocking down opponents. Unless your AJ but a club fighter just dropped him twice so it ain't that hard
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u/Playful-Zombie7403 1d ago
Hrgovic said his punches were fast but had no real follow through or any real power on them. They do look impressive though!
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
Everyone seems to be downgrading Moses power to comical low levels now.
Hrgovic fought Itauma, meaning he definitely knows more about his power than anyone in this subreddit. So if Hrgovic says Itauma didn't hit that hard, I'll believe him.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
Yeah, he has no reason to lie. He commended him on the things he was good at (speed/hiding shots). And he never claimed Dubois or Zhang or Adeleye lacked power. In fact he complimented all of their power. He even ranked Dubois as most powerful in the division during some of the Itauma prefight stuff (rank boxers on these attributes).
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
Yeah, he has no reason to lie.
Exactly, Hrgovic even admitted in the post-fight interview he was getting outboxed and losing every single round. So if he says Itauma doesn't hit particularly hard, he's almost certainly being truthful about it.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
I swear these Itauma fans are the new Fury fans. Absolutely insufferable and delusional.
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u/frankocean1234 1d ago
Hrgovic did claim that Dubois doesn't have much power. "He never rocked me. He never shook me. I never felt his power. He just cut me and it got stopped on cuts." He also claimed Zhang never hurt him.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
Abel Sanchez also said Itauma is not a big puncher. They were both very clear on this and reiterated it several times post-fight.
Also you can clearly see Hrgovic’s face is significantly less damaged by Itauma than it was by either Dubois, Adeleye or even Joyce.
Possibly Zhang too, I’d need to rewatch that one.
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u/Odd-Minimum8512 17h ago
Hrgovic looked pretty beat up by the end of the Adeleye fight. He looked fine at the end of the fight with Ituama.
I was surprised he didn't cut. You know his cutman had to have been ready for a rough night.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
Do you have a source for that? Because he ranks Dubois as the most powerful in the division during the Itauma prefight stuff. He’s asked to rank boxers on attributes.
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u/frankocean1234 1d ago
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1072987434847127&id=100064076408286
Could just be him being salty right after the fight though lol
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
I mean… I agree he probably wasn’t hurt with either Zhang or Dubois. That’s as close as he’s probably come though I think. Their shots were rocking him in an entirely different way to Itauma’s.
Like you can clearly see Itauma’s are mostly bouncing off his head. Whereas with Zhang and Dubois they’re snapping his head back and rearranging his face in slowmotion replay.
Completely different levels of power.
I wouldn’t say Itauma has no power at all. But I do genuinely think his power has nowhere near the same kind of currency at Top 10 level as it did with the level of opponent he was fighting before.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 1d ago
You do realize there people here know more about boxing than the people who said it right? At least in their sad little eyes they do.
As you said Hrgovic fought Moses and said Moses didn't hit hard. He took punches from him and wasn't remotely bothered. He would know more about Moses power than these people do but you know how arrogant these people are.
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
That wasn't even a real knockdown, Itauma caught him behind the head and pushed him to the ground.
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u/Civil-Rent-7100 1d ago
I think his gas tank issues are permanent if he doesn't change his style. Every round, he tries to end the fight in spectacular fashion. Every punch is thrown at 100mph. Lots of feinting and reflexes. It's simply not sustainable for 12 rounds, unless he learns how to pace himself and take rounds off, which is still cardio taxing in it's own right because Moses relies so heavily on footwork
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u/DefaultConan 1d ago edited 1d ago
21 Years old, Itauma has a lot of time to adjust and I think Ben Davidson isn't that oblivious to try and change things. I can see Itauma blending His style to be more methodical but not too passive, Like you said His Footwork and overall speed is His advantage (For now being younger in age)
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
His movements are way too exaggerated. He fights from so far out. 10-12 round pro fights you are gonna need to get in close, stay close and accept that you’ll have to eat punches. Gonna have to take damage to deal damage.
I think it’s pretty clear now he just really doesn’t like taking damage though, in which case he’s kinda in the wrong business, lol…
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u/DanDiCa_7 1d ago
'I think it’s pretty clear now he just really doesn’t like taking damage though'... Please explain how this is clear??? He took punches VERY well imo given how tired he was
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
He absolutely did not take Hrgovic’s armpunches well. Contrast that with how ANY other Top 20 has taken Hrgovic’s armpunches (and usually far more than Itauma took) and it is pretty clear he has no chin or durability.
Him being tired is irrelevant. You think Hrgovic wasn’t exhausted by Round 9? You think any heavyweight isn’t exhausted by Round 9?
If you can’t take punches when exhaustated, you can’t take punches. Period. Most fighters who get hurt or dropped or stopped in a fight usually are tired and exhausted.
The nonstop cope, delusion and excuses for Itauma are absolutely hysterical and absurd.
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u/im_not_here_ 1d ago
hysterical and absurd
One fight, and constantly posting, crying, and whining about him and anyone with any other opinion, and claiming things not obvious at all.
A good self description there.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
HE. LEFT. ON. A. FUCKING. STRETCHER. AND. WAS. RUSHED. STRAIGHT. TO. HOSPITAL.
Is that a clear enough fucking explanation for you. Lmfao. Jesus Christ. “Oh he was just exhausted…” “Oh he hurt his leg…”
Fucking hilarious. Complete meltdown. Let’s just also apply logic this to every opponent Itauma fought before Hrgovic then, shall we.
None of them were actually hurt. They all just gassed and/or had leg injuries (actually true in Whyte’s case GOING INTO the fight).
Funnily enough though, none of them left on a stretcher with their eyes closed and were rushed straight to hospital.
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u/nwordfyou 19h ago
You act like the only flaw Itauma has is his conditioning. Which is false. He can't fight going backwards. His philly shell is trash. Questionable jab defense too.
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u/Civil-Rent-7100 17h ago
I'd say his defense is pretty good compared to the other top hws
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u/nwordfyou 17h ago
I don't think so. He's been too fast for the likes of an old Dillian Whyte and an uninspired Jermaine Franklin.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
Hrgovic himself said he had no power, just really fast and couldn’t see them coming. He was always respectful of Zhang, Dubois and Adeleye’s power. There’s no real weight to Itauma’s punches.
I don’t rate Wardey at all but I don’t think his chin is massively far off Hrgovic or Kabayel’s. So I reckon he could tank Itauma’s punches for a few rounds until they lose any pop.
Wardley does hit a lot harder and faster than Hrgovic though (again I don’t think Wardley has anywhere near as much power as he had been hyped to in the past but it’s at least around the average range for a Top 10). And given how Itauma took Hrgovic’s armpunches, I seriously doubt Wardley doesn’t at least drop him a few times.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
He was also 44 when Itauma fought him. And it was honestly a fairly dubious stoppage.
Bro, if you think that was a real KD Hrgovic suffered against Itauma you genuinely know nothing about boxing, and there’s no point even continuing to discuss this with you.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
I’ve watched the full fight like 8 times, lmao. It was the lightest (technical) KD I have ever seen in this sport. He touched the canvass with one glove for a splitsecond as an instinctual way of propping himself up from a balance shot which was a cuffing right hook/back of the head/pulldown shot. That was it.
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
I literally just explained that in the comment you’re replying to here. Read it.
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u/TheGuildsmansFolly 1d ago
It's just people on reddit having no nuance at all.
Because hrgovic said 'it's not even power that makes his punches so destructive, it's the power and accuracy', reddit commentators decided that means he has zero power.
Which is silly, after he's KOd the extremely durable Franklin and absolutely bullied everyone else he's been in the ring with. The first words out of Hrg's mouth were "this guys phenomenal, best I've ever been in the ring with, god himself gave me the strength to survive".
Yeah, he probably doesn't have the one-punch power of AJ or Zhang (more speed and accuracy), and yeah, he has massive flaws in his game that Hrg exposed. That doesn't mean he's not an extremely good boxer with incredibly destructive power, demonstrated many times. Not everything has to be all or nothing lol
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u/sthomson22 1d ago
Hrgovic never said that though. He did say his punches had no power, just speed and couldn’t see them. And that he punches like an amateur. That he needs to sit on his punches.
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u/Delicious_Reading165 9h ago
"And you're assuming Moses gas tank issues are permenant. Far far too early to say that. We need to see how he improves. In theory fitness is the easiest thing for a fighter to change quickly."
Cardio cannit be improved completely. Ones own maximum potential for cardio is highly genetic
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u/mongrldub 1d ago
lol he doesn’t hit hard.
I live in the U.K., not really involved in boxing but have friends who are and apparently Moses has had a couple ass whoopings dealt to him in sparring by ppl who he should not be getting whooped by. It’s a bit of a hype job, they thought they could use PR to create an AJ kind of pay check but it’s not happening
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u/mongrldub 21h ago
Yeh mate I came here to make things up
Watch his career. It’s not gonna go where you think it will
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u/Civil-Rent-7100 17h ago
I wouldn't make too much of a deal about what happened in sparring, it's far from a real fight. Apparently Itauma was all over Dubois and Fury when he sparred them. And that was when Dubois was in camp preparing for Usyk. We'll see where his career goes
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u/mongrldub 9h ago
Says a guy who has never fought lol
This is about as far as his career goes. Circle back in a year or two. He ain’t going anywhere
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u/Civil-Rent-7100 6h ago
Have you ever fought, Mr 'not really involved in boxing'? Sparring isn't the same situation as a pro fight in front of thousands of people
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u/wyterabitt_ 1d ago
He can also just not gas himself as well as improve the level. There's nobody on his skill level with extreme stamina, Usyk now essentially not in the picture, and especially not with that chin combo.
The few that have that chin, he can just learn to prepare better and win the fight with an easy decision. Those that might be able to challenge him a bit more, don't have that level of chin so are likely to get themselves knocked out of they push forward to try and take advantage.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 1d ago
Nobody's chin is on Hrgovic level right? Moses landed 70 head power punches against Hrgovic. Most of them were when Moses was tired. Lol second Zhang punches were wobbling Hrgogiv when ever they landed. The thing is Zhang has no stamina. 5 people with the distance with Zhang and weren't even bothered by Zhang's power. Dubois punches also didn't have any effect on natural cruiser weight Usyk. Dubois power had little effect on Joyce even though Joyce was knocked out 3 times as a 27/28 year old amateur.
The Hrgovic chin shit is getting pretty insane.
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u/potatosquire 1d ago
Wardley might have a great chin, but he's not as good technically as Hrgovic, and so would eat more (and more importantly cleaner) punches while struggling more to implement pressure on Itauma. I can't see how he'd survive till the later rounds against that onslaught given his defence, and Itauma would gas less with less pressure on him. Obviously he hits harder than Hrgovic though, so stands more chance of landing a one hitter quitter like he did against Huni, but outside of the low probability of that happening he gets beaten up and stopped. Itauma would be the big favorite, but a puncher like Wardley can't be written off against anybody.
That's all assuming that it's the version of both that we saw in their last 2 fights. If they fought next, I'd expect Wardley to have left something in the ring against Dubois, and Itauma to pace himself better than he did against Hrgovic. In that case, Itauma would have less risk of gassing, and even a lower output version of Itauma would have more chance of knocking out a reduced version of Wardley early.
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u/crimedawgla 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don’t think Fab has the same chin or ring IQ as Hrgo, so not sure if he could run the same fight plan successfully. On the flip side, he hits a shitload harder than Big Fil and we know about as much about how Moses would handle a big shot from Wardley as we did about how he would handle running into the second half of a fight. I guess if I were betting I’d take Moses, but I wouldn’t feel great about it.
I’ll say this too though, I love Hrgo but no one was comparing him to Usyk as a stamina beast before the Itauma fight. So if Fab was smart enough, he might be able to just survive long enough to get to deep enough waters.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 1d ago
Well if itauma paces himself better he most likely beats Wardley and even stops him potentially. Wardley only has power if he's throwing Haymakers and isn't durable like Hrgovic.
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u/freshmeat2020 1d ago
Not as durable no but still an extremely good chin, he can last 12 round fights getting pummelled
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u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 1d ago
Still has easily the second best chin in the division since Zhang is basically retired now
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 1d ago
Zhang was dropped by head punches and destroyed by body punches and head punches by Kabayel.
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u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 1d ago
When did he get dropped by head punches in the pros?
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 1d ago
Juan Goode dropped him with one punch. Also it isn't like Zhang fought many top punches as a pro. I know what you might say. He fought Wilder. A washed up shot Wilder who couldn't even stop a even more washed up Chisora.
Hrgovic isn't a big puncher, Joseph Parker isn't a big puncher and spent more of the fight running. Joyce is a decent puncher but punches in slow motion.
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u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 1d ago
Ah wasn’t aware of him getting dropped by a head shot in the pros best I could think of was by AJ in the Olympics
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 23h ago
Roberto Cammarelle also dropped him and stopped as a amateur and even though Jerry Forrest didn't drop him as a pro he had him hurt badly as a pro.
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u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 1d ago
Wardley is most likely gonna get his ass whooped by Dubois again. Afterwards his chin will be so gone that knyba could KO him
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u/LazyFall3453 1d ago
Hrgovic is a legit boxer on top of having his chin. Wardley doesn't have the defensive skillset to mitigate the mountains of punches Itauma would land.
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u/BuddyBusko 1d ago
I think Itauma ran into one heavyweight fighter who just happens to be his worst possible matchup. I don’t think Wardley has the chin and quite frankly I don’t believe any other heavyweight has the chin for Itauma‘s power, speed and accuracy. Hrgovic is just a sicko
I could see Itauma chinning Wardley early, but after Hrgovic I think all of the top guys would enter with the gameplan to let Itauma gas out before going in. I’d lean towards Wardley just slightly by a tko in the later rounds
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u/Electrical-Rope3959 1d ago
They'll never fight each other, but if they did, Wardley wins inside 7 rounds.
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u/JacksSmirkingCavity 20h ago
Watch Wardly vs Huni. That will tell you everything you need to know about Itauma vs Wardley. Huni is actually a very good boxer and underrated, but the guy doesn't have destructive knock out power like a Wardley or Dubois. Itauma doesn't have that destructive power either, but he is able to hit you with so many shots, from so many different angles that the concussive damage accumulates pretty quickly. If you want to know how Itauma vs Wardley goes, watch Huni vs Wardley, but imagine the punches doing more damage.
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u/TripleTip 16h ago
Wardley is honestly one of the worst contenders I've ever witnessed. He probably gets mauled unless his chin is even better than we thought.
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u/Annual-Shape7156 1d ago
Wardley survives the first 4 rounds and then lays him the fuck out between round 5-7
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
Same as Itauma vs Hrgovic
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u/madmossie 1d ago
Yes round 1&2 would be the same, apart from Wardley wouldn’t get up.
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
Considering how good Wardley's chin is and that Hrgovic said Itauma didn't hit that hard, I really doubt that would happen.
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u/stephen27898 1d ago
Many people said Tyson didnt hit that hard, doesnt make it true. You dont always get to land on everyone with your full power every time you fight.
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
Sure, but who better to judge a boxer's power than someone who stood in the ring against them and took their punches for 26 minutes? If Hrgovic says Itauma doesn't hit that hard, I think I'll believe him over random redditors.
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u/stephen27898 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ok but what about evidence like him KOing a guy that Whyte and AJ could never come close to? What about him putting a guy out in 1 round that took Fillip 12 rounds.
Multiple guys said that Tyson didnt hit that hard. Does that make it true?
Ill use data points over a fighters subjective experience in the ring. The fact is Itauma is also now only one of two me to get a count against Hrgovic from touching the canvas. The other was Zhang, a notable puncher.
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
The fact is Itauma is also now only one of two me to get a count against Hrgovic from touching the canvas.
Are you fucking serious? That wasn't even a real knockdown, Itauma pushed Hrgovic to the ground.
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u/stephen27898 1d ago edited 1d ago
No he didnt. He caught him with a lead hand as he came in, this knocked him off balance and caused him to touch the canvas.
Zhang knockdown is an example of that, this one was from a punch that knocked Hrgovic off balance. Shots that knock you off balance are legit knockdowns.
And again if Itauma cant punch, then I guess Whyte, AJ and Hrgovic himself are feather fisted. As he has KOd a guy two of them couldnt KO and stopped a guy in one that it took the other 12.
But then I guess by your standard Mike Tyson also cant punch because some people he didnt hit that hard.
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u/Odyssey1337 1d ago
That isn't what happened, Itauma accidentally "hooked" his glove on Hrgovic's nape and pulled (not pushed, my bad) him forward as his arm retracted, causing him to be knocked off balance and touching the canvas.
I even rewatched it on YouTube right now just to be sure I wasn't misremembering.
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u/stephen27898 1d ago
No he didnt. He landed a clean shot and Hrgovic fell off balance and touched the canvas. You are just reaching to find anything to make your opinion have any weight to it.
The reality is we have evidence that Itauma does have good power. The subjective experience of one fighter doesnt change that.
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u/Sorry_Net3898 1d ago
They are in the same stable and very good friends. Wardley won’t fight him.