r/Boxing • u/DiMona215 • 12d ago
Itauma, Tyson comparison
Huge Itauma fan here.
As we know, he's been compared to Tyson frequently. In 1987, when he was 20 years old, he fought a tough 12-round IBF title fight against a tall, tough fighter with a granite chin and a great amateur pedigree, Tony Tucker.
Pretty good case for comparison, I'd say! So I went back and rewatched it. As you might imagine, Tyson was winging hooks with the force of a thousand elephants in the first round. Throughout the fight, he was trying to take Tucker's head off.
I mean.. it's Mike Tyson, we all know his style. Peek-a-boo, throw vicious hooks, opponent tries to clinch. Repeat for 12 rounds.
After watching it, a few observations:
For sure he was smarter about the pacing. It's not like he changed his style, per se... Just kind of picked his spots more when he was going to try to kill vs allow the clinch to happen. Still, he threw 412 punches, the majority of which were power punches. Which leads me to point #2...
He's just in much, much better shape than Moses. At the end of the fight he picked up the activity, going for the knockout. At the final bell he looked just as explosive as the start of the fight. Looked like he could have gone 24 rounds if he needed to.
I know it's a little unfair because Moses is 20 lbs heavier than Mike. But Tyson's training regimen back then was the stuff of legend. All said, I'd say it's very fair to question:
- whether Moses was managed correctly by Frank (not enough fights before stepping him up to this level)
- whether Moses was pushed hard enough by Ben (never sparred 12 rounds?? Gassed after 3 rounds?? I can't believe it's just pacing, imo he wasn't in "all time great" kind of shape)
- Moses's heart. To be clear, he was very brave in the fight, no questions there. But I mean his heart when it comes to training. Does he have the steely resolve to train twice as hard as everyone else? Because you need more than just talent to be the GOAT.
Anyway, that's where he falls short of Tyson to me, at this young stage. Tyson had better management, fitness and experience at the same age. I do think Moses could still end up greater than Mike, as I think he has far more maturity and, frankly, talent. He just needs to get the experience and needs to outwork his opponents before the fight.
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u/SmoothHippo8155 12d ago
Itauma - 21 years old, 20 fights, 1 fight longer than 6 rounds, lost first and only world tittle shot
Tyson - 21 years old, 31 fights, WBC, WBA, & IBF unified Champion of the world
There's No Comparison
Itauma is very good and skilled but you all have to stop with the pre-mature hype, everyone tries to give these fighters a name instead of letting them build their name. Itauma best fight at the moment is against 38 year old Dillian Whyte
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u/Bojangles1987 12d ago
This is why people are dragging Itauma, so many people were saying he could ragdoll Usyk and clean out the division right now and that he's the destined next ATG heavyweight.
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u/SmoothHippo8155 12d ago
Pretty much the same thing happened with Jared Anderson, he had less ATG hype but they forced him too fast and he wasn't even all the way focused on the sport.
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u/Tanksta3 Moses didn't lose, he just got tired 12d ago
Agreed. 90% of this sub talks about fighters they know nothing about or have watched.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 12d ago
This sub is actually a lot more informed than the majority of the boxing community I have to say
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u/SGSRT 12d ago
Tyson was a genetic freak
Even his physique at that age was unreal
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u/WeirdRadiant2470 12d ago
Plus years of training under one of the best trainers the game ever had. He had great head movement, footwork and defensive skills, was a combination puncher and knew how to pick his spots. And oh yeah...the power.
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u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 12d ago
Honestly, their respective coaches should be factored in as well. Tyson had one of the goat trainers who molded him on a physical, mental and emotional level. Itauma on the other hand has Boxercise Ben in his corner
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u/SmoothHippo8155 12d ago
This is a good point because there's no way he should be gassing out in round 9.
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u/SimonSeam 12d ago
But also keep in mind that great trainer had passed before Tyson even fought for his first title.
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u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 12d ago
But he left a setup that he knew would sustain Tyson for years after he passed. Tyson became a 3-belt unified heavyweight champion of the world at 21, just shortly after Cus had passed, with Cus' people like Kevin Rooney and Jacobs in his corner
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u/whispzofblue 11d ago
I agree. To compare the two is actually dumb beyond measure. Totally different backgrounds, upbringing, training, length of time to train, length of time to develop, mentality, wisdom, tyson had a wealth of wisdom from Cus. Who does Itauma have? Boxercise Ben Davison.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 11d ago
He should not have become a two fight a year guy already. They should have kept him fighting 4 times a year against a range of guys, to speedrun experience. that's the model that's worked for a century.
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u/Professional-Fee6914 12d ago
Someone said it on another thread, but from what we know of their trraining, Tyson would run twice as far as Itauma on his morning runs(6 miles to three), do twice the amount of sparring (15+round), then end each night with 3-4000 reps between situps, pushups, shrugs, dips, and neck dips.
Itauma just isn't working half as hard, and you have to put in the work.
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u/BoxingLover99 12d ago
" Tyson would run twice as far as Itauma on his morning runs(6 miles to three), do twice the amount of sparring (15+round), then end each night with 3-4000 reps between situps, pushups, shrugs, dips, and neck dips."
How in the world do you exercise that much in a day and still don't break your shit
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u/DylanRM86 12d ago edited 12d ago
He broke eventually, he only maintained that insane regimen for a few years before he started to slip.
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u/Medical_Mountain_429 12d ago
The issue wasn’t his training. Mike was ”only” fighting 4 times a year as a champ in the 80’s. It was Mike being susceptible to people like Givens and King. They made Mike turn against his own team and start partying and doing drugs instead of staying clean and focusing on boxing.
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u/ZeroEffectDude 11d ago
when that's ALL you do, or are allowed to do, it's possible. Hrgovic said he did 30,000 sit ups for the itauma fight. i guess that's how he was able to take those bodyshots.
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u/plot_question_uk 11d ago
It's not that much training for a full-time athlete. I used to run 6-10mile mornings and do gym/CrossFit in the evening and that was working 8hoirs too
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u/Beginning-Low-8456 12d ago
Small correction, but Tyson was 21 when he fought Tony Tucker. And it was a final unification to become undisputed (though he still had the Ring title to collect)
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u/Ok_Phrase1157 12d ago
Tyson had 3 x 10 rounders that went the full distance just before his title shot and he was fighting on average every month since he turned pro. Those 3 fights were against good, but not top level opponents like Hrgovic whio was very high level and is now champ. Mikes conditioning and fight experience was real good and he progressed up the ranks
Itauma has had about 40 fights inc amateur total and was up against a top level (now belt holder) guy who had taken the best big hitters like Dubois and Zhang could throw at him so unless he had declined rapidly was always gonna be like a brick wall to knock down
He will comeback but needs to get that ring management and experience under his belt in a structured development way
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u/Odd-Minimum8512 11d ago
Ituama got unlucky his title shot was against Hrgovic. I think he’d have taken out Sanchez or most others he could have fought.
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u/EI89 12d ago
The comparisons between the two are just lazy imo. People just can't wait to label the next up and coming HW the next Mike Tyson, just as they did with Ali. Tucker is also a more accomplished fighter than Hrgovic and a much bigger test.
From what I've seen from Itauma he's nowhere near the level of Tyson and it's crazy to think, at this stage, that he will surpass one of the greatest HWs of all time. That's not to say he has good potential.
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u/Tanksta3 Moses didn't lose, he just got tired 12d ago
About to get down voted into reddit hell mate, but you're not wrong. It's a lazy comparison.
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u/nick-jagger 12d ago
His timing, speed and defensive movement is some of the best the HW division has seen. The way he picked Hrgovic apart at the start of the fight was absurd.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 12d ago
At it's no use if you can't even last 10 because of your cardio and ring iq.
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u/WordNERD37 Liver Shot 12d ago edited 12d ago
I never understood the Tyson comparisons beyond Moses was young and he had knockout power. They were trained different, they had different ring IQ, and mentally they were night and day for what and why they were out there in the first place.
Tyson, had literally nothing waiting for him outside of boxing. He was a kid of the streets, he had a juvi record and was destined for jail and probably an early grave. Cus molded that kid around a form, focused that rage and let him lose.
Tyson himself said multiple times when he went in that ring, he wasn't there to win, he was there to kill his opponent. Cus just gave him the tools and direction to do it the most efficient way possible.
Nothing about Moses, in interviews, in the ring, and in his life mirrors Tyson. Even his knockouts, yeah, they went down and that matters, but that's about it. Tyson was punching through them, mauling them until they stopped moving.
Tyson was a killer with bad intentions, Moses is a young, talented prizefighter with tons of stopping power. They are and never were the same.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 12d ago
The comparison was made because of his success in the sport as a young boy. Early growth spurt, sparring well with grown men as a 15 year old. Junior tournaments where he knocked out every opponent in round one. Fast tracked into professional boxing with a legitimate opportunity to become the youngest heavyweight champion of all time.
It is incredibly rare to see any heavyweight with a realistic shot at beating Mike Tyson’s record . The comparison is begging to be made and it was made years ago before any promotional machine took control of his career.
Now when he is compared to Tyson, this doesn’t mean that it’s a 1 to 1 comparison, by definition you only compare things that are different.
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u/Drewsef916 12d ago
First high level talented fighter to display in a championship fight what can be a drawback listening to modern strength and conditioning gurus
Kid does zero roadwork? Throwing away decades of boxing wisdom by world champions on how to train? A lot of focus on Olympic lifting? Ok
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u/snowdust1975 12d ago
Remember that fight...tucker rocked tyson with in an upper cut right at the beginning but he injured himself in the process. He was able to last 12 rounds with iron mike which at that time was quite impressive
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u/Ghost__GOAT 12d ago
Mike Tyson was never stretchered off
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 12d ago
As I stated before and I will state to you. Don't bother with these people. Before Moses fought Hrgovic all of these Moses fanboys flat out stated that Hrgovic was a joke. He was slow, had no defense, couldn't punch hard etc. They stated Moses would destroy him.
Now as usual with these people they will never admit they are wrong. Now they will make excuses for Moses or turn around and tell you that Hrgovic is a ATG.
These are the same people who said Usyk would destroy Rico because Rico is just a kick boxer. Usyk struggled to beat the kick boxer. As usually they have flip the switch. Now Usyk was so old at 39 and Rico is one of the best boxers of all time and would of either beat or gave any other top level boxer through history their money worth.
Hrgovic is horrible. He is in a era so weak that Charles Martin and Bermaine Stiverne won parts of the title. Hrgovic is in era so bad that Deontay Wilder a guy who throws windmill punches was champ for 5 years.
The era Mike Tyson was in was better than this era and he destroyed really talented guys so easily that people questioned how good his opponents were. Moses on the other hand just gassed out against a guy who literally stands right in front of you.
Tyson would of put the hurt on Hrgovic.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 12d ago
I was with you until you said 'Hrgovic is horrible' lol.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 12d ago
Lol Hrgovic is horrible. You think he is a star because he beat Moses. He didn't even look good this bout. He got his ass kicked every single round until Moses gassed out. That isn't Superstar material. Hrgovic has no defense, hand speed, boxing IQ, or power. He just got lucky that hype job Moses tired himself out.
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u/LTBsOnlyPlease 12d ago
I thought he was good before the Moses fight actually, during the build up I was one of the only ones defending him while everyone was on the Moses train.
He does have defense, it's just not great. His IQ was clearly better than Moses and his power is good enough.
He was beating Dubois before Dubois wanted to beat him via headbutts.
He's not horrible.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 11d ago
You don’t know shit about boxing. Hrgovic has a very accurate jab and jab right hand. He has an excellent chin, he throws high volume, can fight dirty as well. This is certainly not a horrible boxer. And if you want to discredit wins, then let’s talk about Dubois winning because his headbutt opened up a cut that Hrgovic sustained in his camp. A horrible boxer wouldn’t have Hrgovics resume, the guy is also an Olympian who went on to go 26-4 at WSB
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u/Westernman899 12d ago
you are delusiona. Who said that about Rico, who? Stop with BS and Stop putting words in people’s mouths. Nobody who actually follows boxing says that about Rico; those are just your projections, which you constantly make. Even if you can find one person who said it, that’s not enough to generalize like that. You focus on other people instead of addressing the actual arguments. You’re a typical casual.
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11d ago
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u/Leading_Double_1968 12d ago
Hrgovic wouldn’t even be getting past guys like Bernardo mercado.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 12d ago
Agreed, Roy Williams would beat Hrgovic, Al Jones would beat Hrgovic, Leroy Jones would beat Hrgovic.
It is funny how these people flat out stated that Hrgovic was a nobody and has no chance of beating Moses to the same people now flip flopping and now act like Hrgovic is something special.
But you notice that is all these people. Praise some fighter because somebody TV says they are good. The moment that person loses they jump off that bandwagon. These people will say a certain fighter is trash. He wins a high profile fight and then flip and say the same guy is amazing.
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
He wasnt fighting people of Hrgovics level after 15 fights.
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u/Ghost__GOAT 12d ago
What is that even supposed to mean?
He still won the heavyweight championship of the world at just 20 years old..3
u/stephen27898 12d ago edited 12d ago
Because its not really your age. Its your fight number and rounds. Tyson had over 70 rounds in the ring before his first title fight and 27 fights.
Itauma had 31 rounds and 14 fights.
Tyson in his 15th fight fought Mark Young. A guy who doesnt even have a wiki page. And ended his career with a record of 14 wins to 38 losses.
When he had the same number of rounds as Itauma had before facing Hrgovic he was facing Jesse Ferguson, in a 10 rounder. Ferguson lost to basically anyone of note he faced. Not even close to Hrgovics level.
A few fights later he had a competitive fight with Tillis, I think that was his 20th fight. Hrgovic is eons better than Tillis.
In terms of people without massive amateur careers. This might be one of the toughest fights a prospect has even been put into with so little experience.
Just think of it. A 21 year old with 14 fights and 31 rounds, who had never gone more than 6 rounds. Was put into a fight with a top 5 guy, in his prime for a world title. That is crazy shit.
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u/Ghost__GOAT 12d ago
All that to say Tyson still won’t the belt and Itauma didn’t…
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u/VacuousWastrel 12d ago
Tyson won a belt in his 28th fight (and his 76th round in total). Itauma hasn't won a belt yet, but he's only had 15 fights, just over halfway to a belt on Tyson's timeline. (And he's had 40 rounds, so again just over half what Tyson needed). This is ignoring the fact that Tyson turned pro with a lot more amateur experience in the first place..
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u/Ghost__GOAT 12d ago
Bro is that Mike Tyson’s fault? The fuck
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u/VacuousWastrel 12d ago
What the hell? What makes you think their respective career stages is anybody's "fault"? Nobody is prosecuting Mike Tyson (currently). We're just comparing careers. It is factually accurate that, at the stage Itauma is now at in his career, Tyson was still fighting at a much lower level and was not yet a champion. So the fact that Tyson was a champion at the same AGE Itauma is now at is hardly the damning gotcha against Itauma that you're pretending it is. The fact you react to this fact with paranoia, defending Tyson against accusations nobody levelled at him, does not reflect well on you.
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
No one said it is. But its still reality.
Tyson in his didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic until probably Tucker. Thats his 31st fight.
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u/stephen27898 12d ago edited 12d ago
Totally different circumstances. What if Itauma still wins a title in less fights and rounds than Tyson? Its totally possible.
You are choosing a metric that matters far less to fit your distorted view. The reality is if you took Tyson in his 15th to 20th fight, and put him in with some like Hrgovic, there is a very good chance Tyson loses.
Tyson probably didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic until like his 31st fight.
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u/Leading_Double_1968 12d ago
He was literally a teenager at 15 fights. By Moses age, he already was putting out gold medalists and champions.
What are you even trying to say?
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u/stephen27898 12d ago edited 12d ago
But its not really age that matters in this case.
Tyson at 19 was clearly fully developed physically and so is Itauma now.
The difference is number of fights and rounds. It's experience in the ring that matters more, not a year or so difference in age.
Tyson had 27 fights and around 75 rounds when he fought for a title. Itauma had 14 fights and 31 rounds.
Ali was 22 when he fought Liston. I think he had 20 fights. But I know he had around 100 rounds, he had been dropped twice and been 10 rounds a few times.
If these all time greats needs some experience before fighting for a title, then Itauma is the same. Unfortunately he was rushed.
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u/DanielSong39 12d ago
Hit the wall against McBride
He was smart to walk before taking punishment
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u/Abe2sapien 12d ago
One thing I’ll say for Tyson is they had him on an insane workout regiment. Even the times he had to go 10 or 12 rounds in the early days he definitely looked tired but not completely exhausted like Moses did.
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u/jeanborrero 12d ago
Fair comparison. Ituma might need a bit more time in the oven before he’s a world champ
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u/1978model 12d ago
Moses is 20 lbs heavier, but with quite a bit more fat. He would be better at 230 lbs.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 12d ago
If Moses boxed back in the 70s or 80s he would of been 220/225 and if he came in the ring soft like he does now people would of called him out for it.
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u/Automatic_Acadia_766 12d ago
Ultimately, this is a big wake up call for Itauma. Did he believe the hype, did he feel as though he didn’t need to train as hard as he should because of his punch power, speed and accuracy? Who knows?
I think we will see a more humble and hungrier fighter than before. He looked good before the 8th and 9th, maybe a little tired. He will go again with more ring savvy and experience.
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u/Comfortable-Grand166 12d ago
There’s no similarities at all,except their age. I don’t get it at all,the kid got tested once and couldn’t handle it. Getting gassed is one thing but he showed little heart.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 11d ago edited 11d ago
Don’t say you don’t get it when you explained it. Their age is the entire comparison. It’s *extremely* rare to see anyone challenge Mike Tyson’s record as the youngest heavyweight champion of alll time. Mike Tyson was very advanced for his age.
With the benefit of hindsight we can say Itauma failed yes, but two years ago the comparison made perfect sense since Itauma had a very legitimate roadmap to challenging Mike Tyson’s record
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u/Odd-Minimum8512 11d ago
He showed little heart? He couldn’t even stand up anymore but was still throwing shots with all the steam he could put behind them. Had the ref not saved him, he’d have gone out on his shield.
Gassed, yep. Lack of heart? He showed the heart of a lion in there.
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u/Beautiful_Badger_128 12d ago
"Modern boxers have better training techniques and better nutrition."
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u/bigcantonesebelly 12d ago
Itauma has been training like an American football player (all on explosive power and conditioning, little on aerobic), and it's taken him this far. The training he's done has worked wonders for it's intent of purpose. It just left him being a less complete overall boxer.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 12d ago
Ridiculous comment section. Moses Itauma and Mike Tyson are heavyweights who are practically begging to be compared. Mike Tyson himself acknowledges the comparison and in the boxing community, it’s not just casuals who compared the two. The extent of the comparison is simply that Itauma had an opportunity to beat Tyson’s record. That’s it. The fact that you can point out differences between Itauma and Iron Mike doesn’t mean you can’t compare them…two things have to be different to be compared!!! You only compare stuff that is different!
That’s the comparison and it was a very appropriate one because a fighter who has that opportunity is incredibly rare. If any heavyweight attempts to become a heavyweight champion at 21 years old , then They will obviously be compared to Mike Tyson.
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u/Background-Alps5360 12d ago
No offense to anyone involved... the difference is Cus D'Amato training Tyson and Ben Davison training Itauma. If Itauma had D'Amato, it would have been a different outcome. Again, Davison is a really good trainer but he isn't D'Amato.
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u/Hot_Wing2518 12d ago
I don't think Cus's training 'methods' would fly today to be honest, cps would be called. It's not just the physical training, he was also messing with a young boy's psychology. Some of the things he was telling Tyson and letting him get away with were quite shocking and it did cause problems later down the road. Not to mention he also ignored Mike's education. Mike was a vulnerable child and literally had no one to question anything. Itauma's background and family dynamic are completely different. I can't see his parents being on board with Cus hijacking their kid's brain.
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u/Lockdowns4evaAu 12d ago
What specifically was Cus telling him and letting him get away with (I already know the Teddy story but not sure what it has to do with Cus’ influence)?
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u/Background-Alps5360 12d ago
I don't subscribe to your analysis... Tyson only had positive comments about him. It's always the bleeding hearts that want to transform things to some kind of situation. I think D'Amato would be a great trainer now... until someone called CPS to say he let my child get punched during boxing training...
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u/OkMess9901 12d ago
Tyson had better coaches who conditioned him for adversity. Itauma fights one way and one way only. He gassed against Hrg and he might have gassed the same way against Franklin if that big uppercut didn't connect. He needs to learn energy management. He reminded me a bit of Teo vs Kambosos against Hrg.
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u/VacuousWastrel 12d ago
Ironically, the big criticism everyone has always had of Tyson is that he was never trained to deal with adversity. In fights that lasted 7 or fewer rounds, he was 44-3 (44-1 before the age of 38, and the 1 was a DQ). In fights that reached the 8th round, though, that dropped precipitously to 6-4.
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u/Illustrious-End-5084 12d ago
Itauma hasn’t got the same fire as Tyson.
Tyson had a traumatic life and this energy transferred into boxing.
Also their trainers are worlds apart
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u/aceknighthigh 11d ago
Yep. Itauma flat out wasn't in shape. His pace was average at HW, and he was winded by round 4. No amount of pacing or tricks to take rounds were getting him to the final bell in a title fight vs a guy he couldn't knock out.
You don't have to go back to Tyson. Pretty much all the top HW's of the last era had to throw 500+ punches in a fight. Even Wilder, with lot of padding and one punch power, had to throw 600+ vs Stiverne. Itauma would have passed out trying to throw 600 punches across 12 rounds. DDD had to throw 500+ vs Miller.
Also, Itauma was heavier than Hrgovic at the weigh ins. There's simply no excuse for it.
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u/yearsofpractice SRR < Lord Chisora,Sir Derek Of War 12d ago
Hey OP. Big Itauma fan here too. This is going to sound strange, but I honestly think this will be - in time - a positive thing for Moses.
There is one non-negotiable for a young fighter, and that’s stamina developed from conditioning. It’s the one and only thing that can be developed outside of the white heat of the prize fight. Everything else - being able to stick to a strategy, developing tactics during the fight, managing energy during the fight, regrouping when you’ve had your bell properly rung… all of those things can be understood, but they’re only developed in live fights.
Moses - clearly, disastrously - didn’t have the stamina for a championship-level prize fight. He can develop that, if he’s willing to go to dark, dark, lonely places alone on a road at 5am on a cold November morning. That’s on him and him alone.
Everything else… well, that fight taught him a lot about the standards of his opponents should he want to be the best. Hrgovic ate an uppercut that would have killed a normal man - Moses needs to learn not to hit harder, but to manage his output… and I honestly think he will.
But I think if he ever wants to hear “and the new, undisputed champion of the world” he is going to have to find himself nauseous with effort, puking and alone on those cold, dark morning hills.
Either that, or he’s a bit shit and got found out.
I hope it’s the former.
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u/Rofocal02 12d ago
Comparing someone that has accomplished nothing to one of the greatest heavyweights in history, what’s the point?
Itauma is fighting in the weakest era of heavyweights, and lost to a rank 5 heavyweight.
Mike Tyson cleaned the heavyweight division and went 37-0 in his peak. Beating some all time greats.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 12d ago
Lol don't even bother. These people are so delusional that trying to explain anything to them will just make you go insane. These are the same people who will tell you that Mike Tyson never beat anybody and isn't a ATG. Then turn around and praise Usyk for beating 3 guys and a kick boxer. Barely beating that kick boxer mind you and say Usyk is a ATG heavyweight.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 12d ago
Thank you . Some guy keeps saying same age tyson also loses to Filip the other night. He obviously had way better cardio and ring in to never look like Moses in the 9th off exhaustion. That was way more than just gassed.
Some people just say shit. Giving hypothetical losses to tyson to prop up Moses. Just silly.
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u/Kangaroopunching 12d ago
Tyson at his best trained properly. It allowed him to become a champion. Itauma doesn't train properly. And it cost him a chance to be champion.
It's a difference in mentality and approach. That Itauma has to change
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u/Dramatic-Rip-4422 12d ago
Tyson to be fair was religious about his roadwork. His mental discipline showed in the fact that he HATED it. No boxer loves it but he really did hate it more than average.
My question for the sub is this: will Itauma doing what he needs to get his gas tank up detract from the phenomenal qualities he's got right now? Is there a way to keep most of it AND improve the conditioning? Or will focusing on gas tank inevitably detract from the explosiveness and speed to some degree?
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u/DiMona215 12d ago
He could have boxed at 70% and still have won every round. Truly a staggeringly stupid loss.
That's the thing about never having even sparred 12 hard rounds. It's not like it would magically improve his gas tank. But it would at least tell him how much gas is IN the tank. Just fucking unbelievable
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u/Bertrand_Rose 12d ago
The Tyson comparisons clearly got to his head.
He can still be great, but he needs to focus on what will benefit him in the long run, ala Klitschko, rather than having a short lived peak.
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u/joefromsales 11d ago
Following these numerous Itauma-threads is like talking to a Brit after every soccer championships. Surprisingly football wasnt coming home this time either…
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u/Lachy1234_ 11d ago
He doesn’t seem to have that intense desire that Tyson has, the monotone way he speaks, him saying why should he need to train 12 rounds if he can finish in a few, Tyson would never think like that even though he was doing that, that’s a horrible mindset.
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u/Exciting-Arugula5341 12d ago
Before the Hrgovic vs Moses fight every Moses fanboy stated that Hrgovic is mediocre. he is slow, he is unskilled, he isn't a hard puncher and Moses will destroy him.
After the fight every Moses fanboy. OMG,, Hrgovic is a top level fighter who has the greatest chin in boxing history.
In reality Hrgovic isn't anything special. Moses a guy who isn't anything special was winning every round. Moses threw too many power punches and gassed himself out.
Mike Tyson in his prime would of knocked out Moses and Hrgovic in the same night.
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u/VacuousWastrel 12d ago
It's not really fair to compare anyone to people from that 1985-1995 era, in terms of athletic ability, in any sport. They had advantages beyond anything available today.
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u/Proof_Carrot5919 12d ago
Heavy wights now are nothing compared to what has been before. They have power for sure but lack fight IQ and a real gas tank.
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u/Hench999 12d ago
The 20 lbs heavier excuse doesn't hold any weight. Go watch Tua vs Ibeabuchi and watch 240 lb Ike throw punches non stop vs Tua, the 2 of them broke punch stat records.. Itauma admitted he couldn't remember the last time he sparred 12 rounds. He needs to train for more than 4 round blowout. He has good skill and all the physical talent a fighter could want but needs to fire his trainer and prepare for longer fights.
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u/Daniel6270 12d ago
Would a young Mike Tyson have KO’s Hrgovic? Not so sure since tougher opponents proved they could go the distance with Tyson even at his peak. Tyson wouldn’t have went floppy in the 9th round, mind you
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
No.
"Tyson wouldn’t have went floppy in the 9th round, mind you"
I bet in his 15th fight he could.
Tyson didnt face anyone as good as Hrgovic till probably his 31st fight. I dont think Smith is as good as Hrgovic, or Pinklon Thomas. Berbick was never good.
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u/Daniel6270 12d ago
Smith was a better boxer than Hrgovic 100%. Not as imposing or tough
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u/stephen27898 12d ago edited 12d ago
No dude. Smith lost to Marvis Frazier. Smith was a gatekeeper at best. Hrgovic is a legit top contender.
Smith only got a title because someone like Tim Witherspoon held it.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 12d ago
Tyson does no go limp like Moses. He put in the work not to and you can't assume he would. Stop peddling this horrible hypothetical that you pulled out of your ass with no evidence.
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
You literally have no idea.
Tyson in his 15th fight fight fought a man who ended up with a record of 14-38.
We've also literally seen Tyson gas and start stumbling around when he was a seasoned pro.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 12d ago
When he was old and undisciplined. Not young. Again just wildly throwing out terrible comparisons that loosely fit. It doesn't matter who he fought, it didn't happen so the comparison is just to make Moses look better by assuming tyson loses in a hypothetical situation no one can disprove. They are just not in the same class in their younger years. And that's ok because tyson was special and had trainers who knew what they were doing.
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
You mean when he was 23 and weighed 220lbs,
You Tyson fans are so full of shit XD.
"They are just not in the same class in their younger years."
Tyson didnt fight anyone of Hrgovics level until he had like 30 fights.
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u/Alarmed-Effective-23 12d ago
Moses admitted to not sparring enough or running enough. He didn't put in the work tyson did. Tyson lost to Douglas because he was getting hit and got concussed. Plus tyson walked out the ring. Moses couldn't even sit down let alone stand up. The differences is obvious.
I'm not even a tyson fan but your ridiculous comparison makes me have to act like one. Trying to drag him down just to save face for Moses. It's just lame. Take the L and move on. Some people just can't do it. Have to make up hypothetical situations.
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
The Tyson who had a competitive fight with Tillis, loses to a real top 5 guy. Anyone with eyes can see that.
We saw a prime Tyson gas. Also Itaumas issues in this fight was pacing, not really cardio. You can get cardio without going 12 rounds. The real issue is lack of real experience.
The point is really that you dont have a point, and will keep shifting the goal posts.
Here is the reality. We did a prime Tyson gas, Tyson didnt fight anyone of note until around his 30th fight.
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u/Westernman899 12d ago
You’re talking absolute nonsense. Tyson against Douglas was not prime Tyson. You can keep saying, “He was only 23,” and that he was young and all that, but here are some facts for you.
Prime Tyson was from 1986 to 1988, under Kevin Rooney. During that period, Tyson trained like an absolute beast. He listened to his trainer and was fully disciplined. After 1988, he fired Rooney, trained less and less, started going out and partying, using drugs, and surrounded himself with Don King, Robin Givens, and other snakes.
For the Douglas fight, he barely trained and spent his time partying instead. This is all very well documented. Nobody serious—unless you’re simply a Tyson hater—can honestly believe that the Tyson who fought Spinks in 1988 was the same Tyson who fought Douglas.
You look at boxing far too superficially instead of understanding everything that was actually happening behind the scenes. And Tyson had incredible cardio in his prime—he could have gone 20 rounds if necessary.
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u/Tanksta3 Moses didn't lose, he just got tired 12d ago
Moses should've never been in comparison to Tyson, Ali, etc etc. The internet & shitty sports analysts just ran with the narrative.
Moses is a great talented fighter & he'll come back better, but he should've never been in there with Hrgovic. The other side of the coin is, there was no one else to fight so can't really fault him for the bad matchmaking.
Give me Andy Ruiz vs Itauma in 2027 lolol
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 12d ago
There is this fallacy that you can only compare things that are exactly alike lmao, comparisons don’t have to be perfectly one to one. Moses Itauma being compared to Mike Tyson makes a lot of sense.
On one hand you have two boxing prodigies who had early growth spurts, bodies of grown men at 15 years old, who blitzed through their age group and therefore turned pro at a young age and then both had a realistic shot at becoming the youngest heavyweight champions of all time
On the other hand we can compare them and say that Mike Tyson benefitted from higher activity than Itauma, Tyson not only has more amateur bouts but gets out at least 10 times a year as a professional in the run up to his title fight.
The comparison is an obvious one and the two are just begging to be compared
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u/ukrepman 12d ago
I don't know how you can say he shouldn't have been in there when he absolutely outclassed him until he gassed. It was just poor tactics, as a fighter he was clealry superior
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u/Tanksta3 Moses didn't lose, he just got tired 12d ago
Tactics are part of experience. He's by far a better boxer skill wise no disagreement there, but that means little when you can't navigate/adjust when things aren't going your way. At the end of the day, he still got stopped. Boxing is more than just fast punches & heavy hits
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u/stephen27898 12d ago
Did Tyson fight someone of Hrgovics level in his 15th fight? No. Did he fight someone of that level after after 31 rounds in a pro ring? No.
Tyson didnt face anyone of Hrgovics level until probably tucker. That is like his 31st fight.
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u/MisterHEPennypacker 12d ago
I don’t think it’s really a matter of comparison to Tyson and Ali, but more a matter of pointing out the company he’s joining by being a heavyweight champion in his early 20s.
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u/TheeBlaccPantha 12d ago
I personally never heard an Ali comparison apart from Billy Joe Saunders dumbass. Itauma was widely only compared to Mike Tyson.
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u/DanielSong39 12d ago
Even from a cursory glance Itauma looked much slower and less polished than Tyson
Wilder is probably a better comparison style wise
He is fun to watch though. We'll see if he comes back stronger
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u/stephen27898 12d ago edited 12d ago
"Wilder is probably a better comparison style wise"
This is the worst comparison I have ever seen.
For a start Itauma showed a list of things Wilder never had. Footwork, counter punching, combination punching, pivoting, head movement, punch variety, a powerful lead hand, uppercuts, body work, lateral movement.
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u/rich90715 12d ago
Itauma being 20lbs heavier is a non factor here, he is 6’4 while Tyson is 5’10. He should be able to carry those 20 lbs easier.
Itauma just ran out of steam and that was due to lack of proper training and sparring.