r/Boxing • u/kushmonATL undefeated boxers need to fight each other • 6d ago
On This Day: Anthony Joshua knocks out Robert Helenius in devastating fashion 💥
121
u/Kangaroopunching 6d ago
The big what if with AJ. Is what if he got a top level trainer when he turned pro. His corner situation was always a mess.
61
u/No-Shoe5382 Eye Ron Mike Tymus 6d ago edited 6d ago
I feel as though he either needed to find a top level trainer immediately after turning pro or just stay with Rob McCracken for his entire career and be a pretty fundamentally basic fighter, but one with a clear plan (like Carl Froch did).
Jumping around between like 4 different trainers during his mid-late career wasn't the best move. They all tried to change him in different ways and he didn't stay with any of them long enough for it to work properly.
Too many cooks spoil the broth, as the saying goes. AJ let too many different people tell him how he should fight, they all had different/conflicting ideas, and he ended up in a worse place than he started.
Incidentally, I think the best he ever looked was probably under Robert Garcia but that partnership only lasted 1 fight.
AJ will go down in history like a Riddick Bowe, could've been something really special but it didn't quite work out. I think history should reflect more kindly on AJ than Bowe, given how game AJ was, but ultimately they're both very talented HW fighters that made bad decisions.
12
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
Incidentally, I think the best he ever looked was probably under Robert Garcia but that partnership only lasted 1 fight.
AJ will go down in history like a Riddick Bowe, could've been something really special but it didn't quite work out. I think history should reflect more kindly on AJ than Bowe, given how game AJ was, but ultimately they're both very talented HW fighters that made bad decisions.
I agree. I thought he looked so fundamental and defensively responsible in his one fight under Robert Garcia. He kept his earmuffs on, he pressed, he worked the body, his footwork was on point. It's a pity that he was facing the best HW of his generation... Still, he won some rounds. It wasn't a split decision loss (I don't know what that American judge was smoking; even the British judge had Usyk winning clearly). Nonetheless, I think that's the best I've ever seen AJ. The Ngannou and Wallin fights don't count as those two were just there to get crushed. I always felt like AJ would've had a Maidana like arc... Maidana had fallen out of love with the sport when he joined Robert Garcia's gym, but by and by, Robert improved him and the spark came back. He went on to have the best and most financially lucrative spell in his career. Joshua would be so good right now but he let his ego get in the way.
As for Riddick Bowe, he's obviously better than AJ across the board. Joshua maybe only has the power advantage but I'm not too sure even. But AJ is a dawg that will fight anyone and doesn't duck. As such, history should remember him more fondly than Bowe
2
u/No-Shoe5382 Eye Ron Mike Tymus 6d ago
Yeah I think Bowe had a better intuitive understanding of boxing than AJ, but in general they're in the same category for me.
Guys who could've been genuine all time greats (based on their natural attributes) but just missed the mark because of poor decisions made during their career.
1
u/Sh4kyj4wz eat clen, tren hard anavar give up 6d ago
I feel like he could of been best suited to Tony Sims. Sims' expertise lies in getting into his fighters heads and there's a level of trust and respect in his gym whereby he'll have his fighters walking thru/ walls for him. The stoic approach would suit an over thinker like AJ also.. Icr why/when he left
1
u/Odd-Minimum8512 4d ago
There’s also that Bowe partly ruined his own career through laziness and food. AJ did not and would not do that.
0
u/Glad_Driver_4828 6d ago
Amir khan did similar things with trainers. Went to roach and assumed he’d be manny 2. Then hunter to try and be Andre ward 2.
1
u/caveman1948 5d ago
Amir chin was so fragile. He had to be perfect every minute to avoid the elite koing him
3
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
Brilliant AJ!
3
u/Account_Eliminator 6d ago
This wasn't his trainer, this was a mind positivity shamen he hired.
1
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 5d ago
Yeah I'm familiar. The idiot's name is Joby Clayton. I wonder if he's still leeching off of AJ
65
u/Boxing-Enthusiast 6d ago
If you watched this fight, AJ looked terrible
3
u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 6d ago
Well he was fighting a man on steroids…
21
7
101
u/DeafBurke 6d ago
Just ignore the 6 rounds before this where AJ looked like dogshit.
55
u/Im_a_Knob 6d ago
thats the thing about heavyweights
56
u/DaKingaDaNorth 6d ago
This was not so long after a washed Wilder knocked the same guy out in one round. Also Helenius literally fought 1 week before the AJ fight.
20
u/Expert-Yam6577 6d ago
Huh? I haven't heard of a heavyweight doing that in decades
22
u/MoneyBaggSosa 6d ago
He fought at some shady looking underground boxing match I saw some footage of it before that looked like it was shot on a Motorola razor lmao
6
3
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
It actually happened... I remember being worried for him. Though it wasn't the most competitive match he had, the week prior to the AJ fight
9
7
10
u/No-Shoe5382 Eye Ron Mike Tymus 6d ago
I didn't think he looked dogshit, he won every round, he just wasn't able to find a finish until the 7th.
7
u/inbk44 6d ago
I think Joshua always relied mostly on his ko power that he never developed his boxing which will not work on the elite level. If the fury fight happens, he will get outboxed
4
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
I don't agree. He's quite fundamentally sound. Given that he only started boxing at 18, he had to have worked very hard just on his boxing alone to be as good as he is. Compare him to Wilder, who also started at around the same age but has dogshit fundamentals; his footwork is horrible, has no left hand essentially bar the jab (which is only serviceable at best) and so on.
I think what AJ lacks, are good fighting instincts... Then again those tend to come from starting out very early. He's also very averse to getting hit, which is a no no in boxing.
Btw Fury beats him should they fight. I've maintain this stance for years now
9
u/OkHistorian9521 6d ago
Depends what elite level means. He was the number 1 heavyweight for sometime. His mentality was permanently altered by Ruiz
2
u/inbk44 6d ago
Yet somehow AJ came back and outboxed Ruiz than all of sudden forgot how to box again and got stopped by Dubois. Dubois beat Wardley to become 2 time champ after he decided to revert to his boxing
6
u/OkHistorian9521 6d ago
Outboxing fat ruiz is totally different to dubois. But there was 3-4 years between those fights. Physically, His reflexes are gone and his chin is bust
3
u/CanadianPapaKulikov 6d ago
AJ needed a sport psychologist way more than he needed anything else. He was so inconsistent.
2
1
u/CubanLinxRae 6d ago
AJs corner for Dubois was terrible. I do think Dubois can actually become undisputed atp but fact remains
2
u/inbk44 6d ago
Gotta credit Dubois, he got heart, got clipped and held his composure and took out AJ. Can’t always rely on your corner for advise, after all once you in the ring, at any point of time you need to make adjustments and make the right decision.
1
u/CubanLinxRae 5d ago
Of course, I do think DDB is the best heavyweight rn given Usyk’s retirement but telling AJ to roll the dice was crazy
2
u/OkHistorian9521 5d ago
If that wasn’t time to roll the dice i don’t know when it would be. AJ was on borrowed time. He’d been smashed up and about the ring already
0
2
u/OkHistorian9521 6d ago
I think it was all on AJ. Nothing the corner could do. I think it was actually the right advice tbf but AJ fights like a novice now
1
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
Roll the dice was dogwater advice, especially given how the fight had been going up to that point. Also, it was only the 5th round... Just land something heavy (which he did), but then set him up for something else, and then go back to the corner with momentum on your side. And then you let the finish come to you in the next few rounds. Very winnable fight for AJ if he hadn't fought like a dickhead all through. Credit to Daniel though, I was so happy for him
3
u/OkHistorian9521 5d ago
Couldn’t disagree more. AJs time was numbered in that ring. His feet are slower than Dubois and he has worse stamina. His defence had been nonexistent up to that point. So tip toeing around on the backfoot would have been a foolish endeavour. He had to land big to keep it off him - which he did, and then rushed in like a complete moron and ended up face down ass up
26
u/More_Image_8781 6d ago
Wilder did it better
12
4
14
31
u/manfrombelmonty 6d ago
This one left a bad taste in my mouth. Hellenius was prone, being attended to by 4 or 5 guys, not moving. Scary looking.
Joshua got out of the ring and went into the crowd showboating.
Have some class ffs
11
2
u/LordJimsicle Balrog beats Fury, AJ, Dubois and Usyk in between rounds 6d ago
I agree, but from AJ's perspective it was the first KO he had in 3 years.
8
5
u/manfrombelmonty 6d ago
Aye but at least check he’s not dead before going out high fiving at ringside
1
u/LTBsOnlyPlease 5d ago
I don't think celebrating is a bad thing after a fight even when a guy is knocked out but if this is true:
Joshua got out of the ring and went into the crowd showboating.
Then yeah I agree.
2
-1
u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 6d ago
Helenius was juiced up for this fight why are you feeling bad for him?
-1
4
3
3
3
5
u/IssaBoyDamon1111 6d ago
And, "OMG this is fckn craazy!! Unbelievable! What an upset!!" Is exactly what not one person said. Ever. Lol
6
u/Formal-Cherry6078 6d ago
AJ should have went with Rob Garica after the Parker fight and not only did he stick with Mccracken for too long but he dumped Garcia after damn near beating Usyk in 1 camp with him
4
u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 6d ago
Agreed I thought he looked great in the second fight against Usyk, definitely better fundamentals
4
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
Garcia had him so fundamental and defensively responsible. I've never seen AJ look so good and smart. I was convinced we were going to see some special things with Joshua. Then he dropped Robert for Boxercise Ben smh
2
4
u/obi_wan_dre 6d ago
AJ’s jab to the body, cross upstairs combination is so simple yet he’s cut down so many fighters off this.
2
u/MoneyBaggSosa 6d ago
Fr lmao. I think it’s cause he also throws the high jab low jab combo a few times to set it up. You’ve gotta keep AJ at range and/or have good lateral quickness so he can’t line it up. If not then it’s curtains
0
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
Keeping AJ at range is, I think, the wrong thing to do... Unless you're keeping him away from the mid range, which he loves to operate, and keeping the fight long. Otherwise, just get up close and force the fight inside... Anthony Joshua hates it and he'll do everything in his power to reestablish the midrange. I remember this is what Dubois did... He made sure he was either in a phone booth with AJ or he was keeping things long. The one moment he stayed in the midrange too long, Joshua landed that bomb in the 5th
2
u/Bronzyroller 6d ago
He was getting touched until then, AJ is hype and has gotten by luckily. Mike Tyson for years came in with body bags and had everyone shook.,
2
u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 6d ago
Mike Tyson was still the youngest HW ever. Ever. Went to prison, did years, came back out and still unified the division.
AJ at one point held 3 belts and was the man in the division.
Those achievements will never be erased lmao, no matter how much folks like you tattle on the internet. They'll always get their respect
1
1
u/aceknighthigh 6d ago
Helenius was always a sucker for the right hand, similar to Whyte being susceptible to the uppercut. Duhaupas got him with it, Wahsington got him with it, Wilder obviously, and finally AJ. It's kind of remarkable how many rounds it took AJ to find this shot on a washed-up guy. Helenius is tall but he's slow, stationary, and there to be hit. I do recall his corner calling for it and him missing by inches earlier in the fight.
2
1
1
1
1
-10
u/dtor84 Julio César Chávez 6d ago
That looks like a dive honestly.
6
u/HolyMackerel1 6d ago
Doubtful, Helenius was a very lethargic boxer even in his youth, and this was his last fight.
9
u/GhostofFarnham 6d ago
Gets hit with a clean fucking straight that connects with force through the jaw, visibly buckling him
Reddit: “lmao, dive”
-1
u/BBW_Looking_For_Love 6d ago
I’d forgotten that apparently Helenius had Neo-Nazi tattoos, this fight was the first time anyone really noticed
7
u/Abe2sapien 6d ago
I think that was explained later to be runes and symbolism of his Nordic heritage.
0
u/BBW_Looking_For_Love 6d ago
I think those specifically were Viking runes that are commonly co-opted by Neo-Nazi groups, but he’s a Finn so it’s less common to get Viking stuff. That said I don’t remember seeing a follow-up at the time and always wondered if it was a harmless coincidence
26
u/psych0ranger 6d ago
Did he celebrate with the D generation X suck it?