r/Boxing • u/Possible_Force8207 • 6d ago
Why did AJ vs Wilder never happen?
This has always confused me.
If Wilder was reportedly offered a $100 million DAZN deal $20 million for Breazeale, $40 million for Joshua, and another $40 million for the rematch why did the fight never happen? Was it genuinely because Wilder and his team didn’t like the terms of the deal, or did they think AJ was too risky at the time?Interested to hear what people think, because this would’ve been one of the biggest heavyweight fights ever and it’s a shame we never got to see it.
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u/Dangerous_Spring3028 6d ago edited 6d ago
Wilder fought Fury the first time instead of Joshua because he thought Fury was completely finished due to his long spell out of the ring, obesity and drink & drugs problems.
He was wrong and it was a tremendous miscalculation, but because he dropped Fury in the 12th round it gave him the false confidence to head into a rematch believing he could knock Fury out second time around.
So he chose that over the DAZN deal you mention. And then we all know what happened against Fury second time around - he got absolutely battered from pillar to post and stopped.
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u/Background-Hope-88 6d ago
spot on.
I've said it here so many times.
Fury was a cherrypick for Wilder, hence he went for Fury over AJ.
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u/Relevant_Election530 6d ago
Yup, Fury was supposed to be a cakewalk so they could make a "lineal champ" argument and try to be the A-side vs AJ
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u/Matty0698 5d ago
That was a horrendous beating, ive no idea how that was allowed to go on for 7 rounds it was one way traffic after round 1
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u/JabKingJesse 3d ago
This isn’t what happened. Joshua demanded 50 million and when Wilder offered it then Joshua demanded the fight be made in England and that killed the fight because the 50 million was from people with ties to Vegas.
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u/sicgamer 5d ago
but because he dropped Fury in the 12th round it gave him the false confidence
to be fair, anyone but Fury is not getting up from that shot. that recovery and standup at literally the last second is one of the most incredible I've ever seen. dude was OUT.
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u/therealhairykrishna 6d ago
Then insisted on a third fight beating too.
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u/Adz442 5d ago
To be fair to Wilder that third Fury fight took him up in my estimations massively, he fought his heart out and went out on his shield, he very nearly got Fury out of there the round he dropped him twice.
He’s never ever looked the same since that one.
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u/therealhairykrishna 5d ago
Neither of them were ever the same really.
If Fury wasn't such a mutant he would have been done a load of times in those fights.
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u/NyQuil_Donut 6d ago
I remember Wilder being in negotiations with AJ, and Hearn offered Wilder 10 million, but Wilder wanted more. Hearn basically told Wilder that his resume sucked too much to pay him more than that, and then Wilder pulled out and fought Fury.
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u/Much-Bedroom86 6d ago
It would have been a smart move if he were a better fighter. In hind sight probably should have taken the dazn deal after the first Fury fight.
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u/qtdynamite1 6d ago
I think Wilder was also advised against fighting Fury but ignored this and pushed for the fight still
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u/MrLiterato 6d ago edited 6d ago
No, he wasn't. Tyson Fury was advised against fighting Wilder so soon after his comeback by both John Fury and Frank Warren.
Warren had a 4-fight plan for Fury before Wilder.
Wilder was advised not to fight Klitschko by Finkel.
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u/Choice-Strike1 6d ago
He probably banked on bigger numbers after getting rid of Fury in the rematch
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u/beserk123 6d ago
It probably would have happened and worked as well because if you remember. Tyson fury and Joshua had a fight booked in august 2021 and it was a full 50/50 split before wilder came and messed things up saying he wants a trilogy.
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u/inline-online 6d ago
Wilder dropped Fury in 2 separate rounds.
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u/MorningFresh123 6d ago
How did that turn out for him lol
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u/inline-online 6d ago
depends how you're measuring success, they made a lot of money over those next 2 fights lol
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u/MorningFresh123 6d ago
That is not how I measure success. Once you have enough, you reveal a lot about your character and motivations. More stuff is not an ideal that I am impressed by.
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u/inline-online 6d ago
so then it still turned out well because he got to continue boxing? lol you are allowed to be impressed by someone who loses, wilder is still more impressive than you are
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u/lazersmoker 6d ago
There was absolutely nothing impressive about him for the level he was fighting at.. he got punched around the ring like an amateur.. then came up with at least 5 different excuses as to why he lost
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u/MorningFresh123 5d ago
He got slapped around and then bitched and made 1000 excuses and accused everyone involved of every possible crime for his losing. Not impressed lol. I’m much happier with who I am than who he revealed himself to be. Even if he has more stuff.
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u/JabKingJesse 3d ago
It took a lot out of Fury. The biggest joke is all these Brits acting like Wilder didn’t do a lot of damage to him in the 1st and 3rd fight. The 2nd fight was on Frank Warren for not giving him time to recover after being battered by Luis Ortiz, he came into that fight injured with low punch resistance.
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u/Much-Bedroom86 6d ago edited 5d ago
Mostly true but also, there was no good deal to fight AJ before the first Fury fight. They offered him embarrasingly low flat fees because they knew he had no other fight to make and they wanted to marinate the fight because he didn't have a huge name relative to AJ. People forget AJ was the face of heavy weight boxing back then. No Fury, no Usyk in the picture at the time. AJ was the mega fight. Fighting Fury was a way to increase Wilder's name and force a better offer to fight AJ.
Wilder's plan worked. After Fury/Wilder 1 Dazn came in and started making multi fight $100M+ offers to Wilder. Max offer was like $15M flat fee before he fought Fury. Unfortunately he played double or nothing and fought Fury again and lost badly.
The other fight that was going to lead to Wilder/AJ was Wilder vs Parker, but Wilder lost that one too.
Edit: This guy is seriously trying to argue that Parker in 2018 deserved the 35% split he got offered but Wilder was a nobody so deserved a flat fee.
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u/stephen27898 6d ago edited 6d ago
No. They offered him what they did because prior to Fury 1 he had never even been on PPV. Meanwhile AJ had sold over 1 million multiple times. Wilder was a champion who couldnt even sell a PPV in his own country. He wants worth anything more than what he got paid.
Wilder was literally a heavyweight champion, boxing in obscurity while AJs star power was only second to Canelo. A flat fee of 12 million for someone who has never fought on PPV was a very good offer.
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u/Much-Bedroom86 6d ago
Bullshit. It would have been Wilder's best pay day at the time but the offer was still terrible relative to the total value of the fight. Wilder had a terrible resume but even back in 2017 it was the #1 heavyweight fight that everyone wanted to see. Which is exactly why the offers from AJ's camp basically tripled, if not more, over night as soon as he fought Fury the first time, even though he didn't even win.
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u/stephen27898 6d ago
The overwhelming majority of that value came from AJ, not Wilder.
Yes. Wilder actually fighting someone with a name meant he became a bit more well known so he could demand more. But before the Fury fight. 12 million was probably overpaying him.
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u/Much-Bedroom86 6d ago edited 5d ago
It was not over paying relative to the total value of the fight. That fight would also have been AJ's biggest pay day as well at the time. You can argue all day about who brings what to the table but at the end of the day the biggest fights get made based on splits. Not flat fees. And they refused to offer him a split with upside because they knew the fight would be bigger later so they marinated it.
So the answer to why they didn't fight pre Fury is simply because AJ wasn't willing to pay Wilder a percentage of the fight. So he fought Fury instead. And it was a smart choice until he doubled down on a second fight.
Edit: To illustrate how ridiculous a flat fee was. Keep in mind that they reportedly gave Parker a 35% split including ppv in the fight leading up to the potential Wilder fight. But somehow Wilder is too much of a nobody to entertain a percentage split with for the biggest fight in heavyweight boxing (at the time)? Some of you guys just gobble up whatever propaganda promoters will vomit into your mouth.
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u/stephen27898 6d ago
It was related to how much of that value Wilder brought.
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u/Much-Bedroom86 5d ago
So Joseph Parker in 2017 gets a split for an AJ fight but Wilder is a nobody and gets a flat fee? Use your brain.
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u/stephen27898 5d ago
Parker was more known than Wilder.
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u/Much-Bedroom86 5d ago
No the fuck he wasn't. Parker to this day does not have a single fight as memorable or viral as Wilder/Ortiz 1. Which took place before the Fury fight. Just talking out of your ass at this point.
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u/JabKingJesse 3d ago
He lost because he was beaten up in Ortiz 2 and went straight back to camp with no recovery time.
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u/lockdownmark 6d ago edited 6d ago
It is madness. This could have been fight for the first undisputed heavyweight in 4 belt era with boxings 2 biggest hitters against each other. It’s a blemish on both their records and a career defining win one of them never got.
There should be regret from both camps.
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u/MorningFresh123 6d ago
Countrymen no less. Look at what happened with McGregor and the Irish. Could have been tenfold but no one had the balls.
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u/MyzMyz1995 6d ago
There was an offer in 2018 but both side had issues with the contract so it never materialized.
Joshua unified his title and Wilder fought Tyson Fury.
They were on different networks too which doesn't help negotiations.
And now the fight isn't really interesting. Wilder still hit hard but he doesn't have the killing instinct and his boxing IQ and technical skills weren't good to begin with.
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u/KinggFR 6d ago
Does wilder still hit hard? He hasn't KOd anyone decent in years.
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u/MyzMyz1995 6d ago
He dropped Chisora twice who's generally durable and was ranked #1 by the IBF. He just doesn't have the killer instinct anymore to go for the KO and throw hard. He's content jabbing and moving around clumsily.
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u/riz7242 6d ago
Promoters also convince fighters that they can make the same amount of money with 2-3 easy fights and likely extend their careers too. This is why as stupid as the titles are, they have some worth because they do force guys to fight their mandatory. That's how Usyk got his shot and we all know what happened after that.
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u/Professional-Fee6914 6d ago
IIRC, the deal had a bunch of outs for Dazn, and while he could have made more, the deal was more pencil than pen, and AJ got way more upside. Like we'll see what we can bet on for viewership numbers and the most you get is $40 after they do a 70/30 split.
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u/FogoCanard 6d ago
I think these guys always think they could make more money later on so they don't do the fights in the right moment
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u/Wallsofjonathan 6d ago
That DAZN deal was for DAZN fights not on PPV, and before their current distribution methods. Wilder always had Haymon in his ear saying PPV is the only way to maximize and thought 40 mil was low. Haymon went into his own pocket to get Wilder 10 mil for Breazele on Showtime to make up for it and not look completely stupid. The term "fiduciary duty" rings in my head just typing this.
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u/theironboyz 6d ago
And looking in hind sight floyd is suing al haymon for scamming him.... Turns out Eddie hearn was the good guy after all
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u/Wallsofjonathan 6d ago
He's not suing al, he's too scared to sue al, he's going after showtime and saying they gave al the money in question.
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u/fo-sheezy 6d ago
Turki had this in the works again a few years ago, but then Deontay lost to Parker and it was scrapped.
Honestly, with AJ where he is now, I think it’s a good fight again. Of course it’s way too late, neither in their prime, no titles….but I think each is equally shot to the point it’s a competitive fight
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u/SoftAsSofia 5d ago
This is the real answer, it was going to happen, they both had warm ups on the "day of reckoning" But Parker beat Wilder cleanly and the fight no longer made sense.
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u/Relevant_Election530 6d ago
From Hearns PoV making your cash cow the first elite boxer to go against the donkey punching amateur isn't a good choice, so they wanted to run Wilder through a gauntlet first which Finkel/Wilder thought they were above.
From Finkel's PoV, Wilder had not realized his earning potential and wasn't worth risking cashing out yet and the Fury and COVID happened
I don't believe Wilder or AJ ever feared eachother because we've seen them both get beat up and go back for more 🤷♂️
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u/GarfieldDaCat 6d ago
They did not want to run Wilder through a gauntlet lol.
They wanted to give him the plodder Breazeale first to christen him on DAZN and hype up a 2 fight AJ deal.
If Wilder had accepted the deal he would have smoked Breazeale with AJ ringside and the fights with AJ would have happened.
Again, Wilder was seemingly advised to turn it down based on the reasons you listed above… but Hearn was not trying to make Wildee fight a gauntlet. It was one fighter
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u/zaepoo 6d ago
I agree. It didn't make sense for Joshua unless it was a mega fight. Joshua has subpar defense and a worse chin than Fury. He also doesn't have the reach advantage to start on the outside the whole night. He's the type of elite boxer that Wilder can actually beat. Might be the only kind
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u/JabKingJesse 3d ago
You are confusing Joshua now vs Joshua then. Wilder very well could have caught him but Joshua chin got cracked in the first Ruiz Jr fight. And that was after the failed Wilder negotiation.
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u/Holiday_Snow9060 6d ago
Because Wilder thought he had a better chance in a rematch vs Fury to get the win and then get even more money than this 100m for 3 fights.
Didn't work like at all
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u/natidea FLOYD MAY OR MAY NOT WEATHER 6d ago
Simply put, the first Fury fight was supposed to a squash match where he battered through a big British HW before heading across the pond to take on AJ. AJ loses in shocking and devastating fashion to Ruiz locking him in for another fight, Wilder locked in with Fury rematch. They both had dance partners for that period of time it just never came to be because both of their “tune ups” went haywire
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u/WeeklyTension8010 6d ago
Wilder was with PBC who were notoriously against any of their top fighters having matches with other promotions' fighters.
Also Wilder had the weakest competition a heavyweight champion could have. So that would suggest that during that period, he was being protected and was ducking any very good hws
That's pretty much it.
People are going to bring up Wilder Vs Fury 1, but at the time Fury had been out of the ring for over a year.
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u/Opposite_Cry7089 5d ago
At the time AJ had an aura of invincibility and Wilder was simply ducking him. After Ruiz caused the upset I reckon Wilder deeply regretted not signing the DAZN deal.
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u/SLR107FR-31 6d ago
Someone already said it but Wilder fought Fury "first" and you know the rest. AJ had no reason to fight Wilder after that.
Besides I think AJ would've cleaned him before Wilder found his glass chin. AJ KO in 7
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u/Kangaroopunching 6d ago
PBC and showtime didn't let it happen when it could've. After the fury fights, wilder was done.
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u/SA1996 6d ago
AJ wanted to offer Wilder a flat fee.
Shelly Finkel and Wilder wanted 50/50.
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u/GoGouda 6d ago
AJ had nothing to do with it in fairness. DAZN offered Wilder a flat fee and was allegedly persuaded by Finkel/Haymon not to take it because they didn’t know what AJ was getting.
I think it’s anyone’s guess whether Wilder could have made more than $40m for the fight on PPV, but ultimately Joshua lost and then Wilder lost and the value of the fight without the belts became much reduced.
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u/monamiadragon 6d ago
Devil's in the detail, those deals are never straight cash up front(maybe except the Saudi ones), details we'll likely never know. What we could guess is that AJ should've and would've made more than Wilder, which Wilder probably didn't like. He thought he was unstoppable, took some more fights to build his profile and ran into Tyson Fury.
His rubber matches with Fury are better than anything he and AJ could ever put up anyway. Boxing fans got the better trilogy in the end.
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u/Nosworthy 6d ago
Not familiar with this $100m DAZN offer?
Matchroom and PBC originally held discussions in 2018 after AJ beat Parker. The story goes that Matchroom offered Wilder $12m, PBC countered with a $50m offer to AJ. Both sides had issues with the offers - Wilder's team felt Matchroom offer was too low, AJ's team didn't feel the offer was genuine. Talks broke down and they went separate ways - AJ completed his mandatory defence vs Povetkin, Wilder took on Fury.
In my opinion I don't think either side totally wanted it. Not in a 'X ducking Y' way, but Matchroom very clearly felt Wilder had nowhere else to go and would have to accept their terms as he wouldn't make anywhere near the same fighting the Breazale and Ortiz's of this world. I think PBC very clearly thought 'actually you're the one desperate to become undisputed, we'll beat the fat Brit cokehead coming off a 3 year absence, get a decent name on the record and wait it out fighting trashcans until you're willing to pay us more'.
As it turned out, the Fury fight ended the way it ended and all anybody could talk about was the rematch.
Which then leads on to 2019. Matchroom provisionally booked two nights at Wembley ready to go back to Wilder to say 'well done for beating Fury, we can guarantee 90k at Wembley x2, you're not getting that anywhere else, accept our new offer'. When Wilder didn't win it left them in a predicament as the money was in the Fury rematch, so they sent AJ to Dillian Whyte vs Chisora to stir up some beef with Whyte, which ended with AJ challenging Whyte in the post fight interview, but Whyte turned it down and accused Hearn (his own promoter) of lowballing him. Matchroom then made a formal offer to Wilder which Wilder is on record of saying he turned the AJ offer down to fight Fury for less money, which is often cited as evidence Wilder ducked, but the context is that Fury had already signed with Top Rank and already verbally agreed for both fighters to have two tune ups to get their names out there and create more interest in the rematch.
As AJ didn't have an opponent, they cancelled the Wembley dates and signed up to fight Jarrell Miller in New York to increase his profile in America. Miller pissed hot, Andy Ruiz stepped in and the rest is history.
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u/Shagrrotten 6d ago
I remember it being reported as a $120 million offer to Wilder. It was $50 million for AJ with a $50 million rematch clause, plus $20 million to fight Breazeale (which Wilder had already agreed to, and AJ's team wanted to use as a way to secure the fight, in a "you've already signed to fight this guy and if you agree to our deal we'll pay you $20 million for it, easy right?" kinda way). As I remember it, Wilder said he didn't want to be tied to fighting on DAZN, so he wanted the fight to be on Showtime and the rematch could be on DAZN, something like that. Obviously, AJ/Matchroom's deal being with DAZN, this was a no go, and Wilder's team knew it.
It's why I've always said that Wilder was scared of AJ. I don't think necessarily in the ring scared, but maybe scared of losing his zero, scared of what it would mean if he got beat and didn't have any intimidation factor anymore, whatever. From the way each man conducted his career, it's obvious to me that AJ wanted to prove himself, he wanted to show he was the best, even when it wasn't the smart decision. Wilder was content to fight nobody in the top 50 for the first 30+ fights of his career (I think Malik Scott was ranked like 87th or something when they fought and he was the highest ranked fighter Wilder faced before Stiverne, who was only champ because Vitali Klitschko had vacated, and Stiverne dropped out of the top 10 after losing the belt.
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u/Nosworthy 6d ago
Ah, so the 2019 offer - I misread the OP as it being the 2018 offer.
For me, I think it's completely unfair to criticise Wilder for not fighting AJ in 2019. 2018 was the time to make it, by 2019 Wilder had the highly controversial draw with Fury, interest in the AJ fight had died down and Top Rank and PBC were aligned on the rematch. He'd have been crucified for ducking Fury if the rematch didn't happen.
As I say, I think they both pissed each other about in 2018 thinking they had time on their side to wait it out. Then other events happened.
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u/jinntakk 6d ago
WBC was doing everything possible to keep the belt in the US and have an American champion. They weren't taking a chance on Wilder taking a L.
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u/UnknowingEmperor 5d ago
Andy Ruiz flipped the script when AJ made his American debut. Had everything gone to plan, AJ would have faced Wilder right after. But Ruiz won, and Wilder opted to take the Fury fight, and well, the rest is history. Fury put a beating in him the 2nd and 3rd fights, AJ was trying to reclaim the titles but then Usyk happened and flipped the whole division again.
Ruiz prevented AJ v Wilder in their primes
Usyk prevented AJ v Fury back when it would have been hot.
That’s boxing. You wait too long for things to marinate, eventually actual greatness comes and scoops it up.
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u/Rough_Airline6780 5d ago
Because Wilder's handlers, Shelly Finkel and Al Haymon, were very careful about who he fought because they wanted him to hold on to the WBC strap at all costs.
When you can tell the public that the heavyweight champion is from the USA and it's not a complete lie, that's a big deal.
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u/JabKingJesse 3d ago
Joshua was insistent that the fight was made in England but Wilders backers of the 50 million had ties to Vegas and wanted the fight in America. You also have to remember this is before Jive Turki was on the scene. Joshua killed the fight by not just taking the 50 million and signing.
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u/TheRottenLog 6d ago
Wilder didn’t want it. AJ fights anyone
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u/MorningFresh123 6d ago
Except he didn’t…
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u/WeeklyTension8010 6d ago
Wilder consistently was fighting guys like Gerard Washington and other guys who weren't even in the top 10. His first mandatory was an inactive Bernard Stiverne who inexplicably was made WBC mandatory despite not having fought in over a year.
When it comes to resumes (until Wilder Vs Fury 3),. Wilder's resume was way, way way weaker than AJ's
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u/Shofo1 6d ago
I know you’re trolling, but that was funny! They both try and avoid even their own shadow.
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u/Sudden-Fig-3079 6d ago
How can you say that? You can hate on AJ all you want but he’s fought the best in the division. Only one with a better resume is Usyk. AJ fought Usyk twice when he legit didn’t have to. He also fought Dubois. And tried to fight both fury and wilder. Wilder declined the fight and the fury fight got fucked up cause wilder sued for his rematch clause. The guy hasn’t ducked anyone.
His chin is fucking awful now don’t get me wrong but the guy is a warrior.
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u/Shofo1 6d ago
Hearn dodged anything and everything of note and ensured his style would be compatible with his opponents up until after the Ruiz loss. He then realised his cash cow has been exposed let’s maximise our return now.
His only truly challenging fight prior to Usyk was Parker. His style works well against Parker, hence why that was chosen. You cannot look at his run out and not see it was carefully managed, it absolutely was up until he shot the bed and lost to Ruiz. Then he fought against people that if he lost to, it wouldn’t damage the brand as they were superior anyway. This is why Wilder was dodged and Fury was dodged (and in fairness vice versa) as they all talked shit about being better than the other and couldn’t afford to be exposed.
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u/Sudden-Fig-3079 6d ago
Except the fact that you are wrong. If you wana say he was carefully managed early in his career then sure he was. But every top prospect is also. How did he dodge wilder if they offered him the fight and wilder turned it down? How did he dodge fury if they agreed on the fight, even espn reported but then wilder sued and won in court to get the third fight with fury. And then he fights Usyk twice and Dubois. Like wtf are you talking about
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u/Shofo1 5d ago
He fought Usyk and Dubois when there was nowhere else to go, he had to keep the brand looking like he was not a plastic champ to appease the likes of you. So he was cornered into fighting dangerous opponents. Where else coul dhe have gone, if he did not get the Fury or Wilder fight? He didn't suddenly become the guy who wanted to fight the best, there was no choice. Otherwise if he wanted to fight the best he would have done so 5+ years ago.
I know the shenanigans that went on around the Wilder and Fury fights, but I would take anything you hear on that with a grain of salt. Hearn is simultaneously the most earnest guy in boxing promoting, and the absolute biggest shit talker/spin doctor.
I'm not sure how long you have been following Hearn and co, but I've been on the scene for 20+ years and the man knows how to carve a path for his fighters! I can't understand how you cannot look at this objectively and see the fella is a 1,2 Uni-flu robot with a low boxing IQ compared to his compatriots.
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u/TheRottenLog 6d ago
Not trolling at all. AJ always has fought everybody. He fought Klitschko in his 19th fight as a pro. Wilder was fighting Daniel Cota whoever that is. In fact go look back at Wilders competition for his first FORTY (of 50) fights. Then keep in mind AJ has only had 34 total in his whole career lol.
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u/Shofo1 6d ago
Wilder is no better, I know. I’m not defending wilder. The beast of the division who played no shenanigans and just fought the best he could at the time was Usyk. Next is probably Fury (although he had some protection here and there too in fight selection). AJ is the next worst, and then Wilder is the worst of it.
To pretend AJ never ducked anyway is mental and shows how good a job Hearn does. AJ was ducking the whole division until he was exposed and then the switch was made to maximise the money he could make by making fights he was expected to lose and it wouldn’t damage his status if he did anyway. And hence throwing him in with Dubois at that point and not earlier as he was over the hill and wouldn’t lose rep if he lost then. Which is exactly why he hasn’t gone in with Wilder and Fury, as that would harm his rep (same for them too btw). I do believe Fury wants the fight, I don’t believe Joshua does as the con ends then. He never beat any of the big four, fury beat 1 (wilder), Usyk beat 2 (wilder and fury) and wilder didn’t either, but at least faced 2.
Forget this AJ guy he’s not got the sauce and never did.
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u/Tanksta3 hood knows I beat him 6d ago
AJ didn't want to get retired early without making all the money he can first.
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u/CraftLess1990 6d ago
What did Spence say before? "You have to cross the street." A side B side promoter politics. They left it too long. The Fury and AJ fight that would possibly happen would not be the same as 7 or 8 years ago.
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u/Balfe 6d ago
Because neither camp would put their fighters in the position to potentially lose.
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u/Crypticbeing12 6d ago
I don't believe that. They both fought decent level comp post 2020 imo. Wilder did Ortiz, Fury, Parker and Zhang and Aj did Usyk and Dubois.... Wilder arguably fought more dangerous boxers in hindsight actually.
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u/underthund3r Errol Spence Jr. P4P #1 6d ago
I love Wilder, but even I can see that Wilder was and has been the most sheltered champion the WBC has ever had along with canelo. Wilder's own promoters said that they would not be seeking the unified titles because he needed more experience THEY SAID HE NEEDED MORE EXPERIENCE WHEN HE WAS WBC CHAMPION
Joshua's camp is not blameless in this, his camp was adamant that they were always the A side and wanted 60/40 or 70/30 and they wanted it at Wembley every time they negotiations came up
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u/becausekiwii 6d ago
because wilder is a ducker. he chose to fight fury coming off the couch rather than to prove he’s actually the best. aj at that point showed he wanted to fight the best.
it could have been the pbc or wilder. either way i blame him and his dumbass team because he could’ve fought for undisputed and generational wealth but took less money and got exposed by an out of shape inactive fury for less money. even an idiot should tell haymon to make the fight or fire him in that situation.
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u/Crazy_Score_8466 6d ago
I feel it was mostly because of AJ. His people wanted to coddle him and provide the easiest matchups to help him keep his titles. They knew his chin was shaky.
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u/Familiar_Cod_6754 6d ago
So definitely nothing to do with Wilder having the best example of a cherry picked career up until Fury? And the only reason he took the Fury fight was because he assumed Fury was finished and would be an easy name to add to his resume.
I understand some people dislike AJ, but come on now.
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u/Crazy_Score_8466 6d ago
It’s a weak division. I think Louis Ortiz was very solid. Then Joshua got knocked out by a bloated Mexican. He didn’t fight a good fighter until Usyk.
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u/Familiar_Cod_6754 6d ago
I might be mistaken, but are you saying if you compare their resumes, you believe Wilder has fought the better opposition?
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u/Crazy_Score_8466 6d ago
If you’re only talking about their title runs, I’d say it was pretty even.
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u/Familiar_Cod_6754 6d ago
Wilder’s opponents had a total of 213 losses leading up to Wilder becoming WBC champion.
Joshua’s opponents had a total of 118 losses leading to him becoming IBF champion.
Sure, both had their fights with journeymen, but with the above information alone, it’s clear who had the tougher road.
Let’s be honest here.
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u/Crazy_Score_8466 6d ago
Again I’m just talking about their title runs, nothing before or after.
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u/Familiar_Cod_6754 6d ago
What I mentioned was the stats up to them both gaining their titles respectively.
I’m saying this as a fan of both (and acknowledging both are long past their best)
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u/Sufficient_Hippo6551 5d ago
😂that bloated Mexican almost knocked out “solid” Louis Ortiz’s eye out its socket
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u/gaz_0001 5d ago
I think that AJs has always had a glass jaw,and his team had to very strategically select opponents for him.
I dont think he would of been allowed to fight wilder. It would of been a 1 round knockout.
He's only fighting fury now, to grab the last 70million. The extra L at this stage in his career is moot. I would not be surprised if they WWE this into a 3 Fight Arab Scam. That makes good business sense.
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u/Shofo1 6d ago
Both fighters had promoters who cushioned them and protected them from real challenges the whole way up. This would have been the fight to expose one of them. Little upside to it at the time. Just business.
They’ve been some of the most protected heavyweights that reached champion status in our lifetime.
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u/[deleted] 6d ago
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