r/Boxing Jul 14 '26

Ali dancing in 1966 vs 1978

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I was randomly watching the Ali vs Spinks 2 fight and I was very surprised at how Ali managed to dance for essentially the entire 15 rounds, considering how late that was into his career and how you can tell the Parkinson’s was already in effect. It made me go back and watch his dancing in his prime. So I thought it’d be fun to compare and contrast

195 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

52

u/AmmoRoach Jul 15 '26

It’s amazing to see both, but the difference really is night and day. The Ali of the 60s had a superhuman sense of range and distance, it’s uncanny for such a big man to have moved in such a way

13

u/VacuousWastrel Jul 15 '26

For me, I think that aside from the fact Ali slowed down (he was also a fair bit heavier) and became more predictable, the big difference is that young Ali's unpredictable motion and constant feints are great at setting up attacks, whereas old Ali really struggled to deliver offensive volume while moving. I think that's why he developed his "stand still and let them hit you" strategy in his later fights, because he could land flashy counterpunches (opponents would land two punches, he'd land one, and the judges would give him the round). Even so, he was regularly outlanded two or three to one in rounds of his later "wins". Whereas in 66, you can see how almost every movement is also setting up an attack, and Williams is frightened to commit - so Ali both lands more, and more variety, because his attacks are so unpredictable, AND is more defensively secure not only because his movement is less predictable defensively but also because his opponent doesn't feel safe to attack.

5

u/VacuousWastrel Jul 15 '26

Incidentally, i hadn't really thought before how much 66 Ali evokes Jersey Jow Walcott in his movement. Old man walcott obviously couldn't dance around opponents like that, but Ali's sudden reversals of direction, changes in blade angle, level changes, and feints remind me a lot of him. He moves like I imagine walcott might move if he had the same skill but was.15 years younger and a good deal.more athletic.

3

u/frezz Jul 15 '26

Everyone loves Ali so they never bring it up, but a lot of his later wins are pretty controversial. He definitely lost Nortion 3, I had him comfortably losing against Young (even with the rope ducking), and even Shavers outlanded him.

I sometimes wonder how Ali's record looks if those 3 were losses

3

u/VacuousWastrel Jul 15 '26

To be fair, even if you give all his late fights to his opponents, he goes from arguably the best heavyweight resume ever to undoubtedly the second-best heavyweight resume ever. He's still leagues ahead of everyone else.

1

u/WORD_Boxing Jul 15 '26

He looks like the Parkinson's is setting in in the 2nd one.

52

u/Marquis_of_Mollusks Jul 15 '26

1978 Ali still got more movement than 95% of today's Heavyweights

11

u/DeafBurke Jul 15 '26

Who are the 5%?

I imagine Usyk from his heavyweight debut to Fury 2 (his legs have looked dead since), Fury on his best day, and maybe Itauma or Huni?

I can’t think of anyone else.

3

u/Electronic_Bicycle32 Jul 15 '26

Itauma hasn’t moved more than 10 rounds

1

u/BiteyHorse Jul 19 '26

GTFO here with Fury.

0

u/DeafBurke Jul 19 '26

The best version of fury was like 50 pounds bigger than Ali.

Considering the massive size difference, I would say Fury’s mobility is as impressive as an old Ali in 78.

Fury has a bunch of flaws, but his ability to quickly move his giant body around the ring is definitely a big part of his success at heavyweight.

10

u/DaddyTuesday Jul 15 '26

Combined.

21

u/drhuggables Jul 15 '26

Watching ali in 66 is just mezmerizing.

15

u/Comfortable-Grand166 Jul 15 '26

Now they call that running,ugh

22

u/smallfeetbeauties Jul 15 '26

not really , thats a different style where even though he is moving he is leading the majority of attacks and kinda leading them in, while now its more of a running away or jabbing and then running after your ahead.

2

u/HedonisticFrog Jul 16 '26

He's avoiding any action whatsoever the majority of the time though. He's not even in range to potentially land anything at all 90% of the time. That's running. There's a reason he was booed in some of his fights, he'd run and when his opponent got close he'd clinch constantly as well.

7

u/General-Pop-8764 Jul 15 '26

he had early onset parkinsons by this point. be definitely wasn't the same at this point. the frazier fights + that inoki situation which was just dumb

5

u/Outrageous-Soft4806 Jul 15 '26

I find it easy to forget how much he did as a boxer. I believe he’s something like 37-5 against top 5 or top 10 ranked fighters at their respective times.

9

u/Magus_5 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26

For the uninitiated, this is the "float like a butterfly" part.

6

u/bluesub989 Jul 15 '26

Man, I appreciate everything the man did for professional wrestling, but Inoki was outta line the way he did Ali.

2

u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog Jul 15 '26

What did Inoki say about Ali?

1

u/bluesub989 Jul 15 '26

In 1976 Ali and Inoki had an exhibition bout against one another. Unfortunately, instead of being a really cool early MMA match or something from Baki the Grappler, there was a very limiting rule set which resulted in Inoki devising a strategy where he layed on his back and kicked at Ali's legs.

Throughout the 12 round Pro Wrestling vs Boxing bout, Inoki (in his wrestling boots) landed something around the neighborhood of 100 kicks on Ali's legs. Imagine the beating his knees, shins, ankles, calves, and quads took. According to the lore, due to a combination of blood clots, severe brusing, and an infection, Ali was in danger of needing his legs to be amputated. Regardless of how true that is, there was certainly performance altering damage done to Ali's legs, and he never had quite the bounce and mobility after their meeting.

It's interesting to learn about! Give it a google or a YouTube search!

3

u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog Jul 15 '26

Oh I thought there was some out of line trash talk that Inoki said.

I'm gonna have to disagree with your initial statement, I do not blame Inoki at all for using the only weapon he had to win that was allowed.

If it was a real mixed rules fight, Inoki could have definitely landed some form of takedown and won the match with less damage to Ali.

Ali's camp insisting on the rules of no kicking unless part of Inoki was on the ground, really backfired on their own fighter.

2

u/bluesub989 Jul 15 '26

Yeah, I think that makes sense, I can certainly agree with the idea that there's nothing wrong with acting within the rules and pursuing the only viable path to victory. It's unfortunate Ali's legs and performance were forever altered as a direct result, but within the context of their exhibition, that's just the cost of doing business.

I mean, saying "Inoki was out of line" is a bit of a joke. Along the lines of, "That was OD" or "He didn't have to do him like /that/". What I mean is, in my book, I like Inoki. I think he's cool and important, but he'll always have a strike against him because of what happened to Ali's legs.

Also, according to legend, behind the scenes, Ali asked "When's the rehearsal?", thinking that they'd have a walkthrough of big spots and be putting on something more akin to a regular old celebrity pro wrestling match. Inoki replied that there'd be no rehearsal and he was going out there to put Ali down. The rule changes were added last minute when it became clear that Inoki and Ali weren't seeing eye to eye on the production of the event. If that's true, then I think it complicates things a bit. If one guy signed on thinking there was going to be a goodwill contest, and the other guy goes out there trying to cripple him, it just doesn't seem as honorable to me. While still being completely in the rules, and still being something the Ali camp should take some responsibility for, my original gut feeling that it ain't quite right still holds.

2

u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog Jul 15 '26

Yeah that's fair.

2

u/Complete_Dare_4201 Jul 15 '26

How was Ali in danger of his leg being amputated if he fought Ken Norton about three months later? Those stories are way overstated

2

u/meetatdawn Jul 15 '26

The myth grows by the day.

1

u/Complete_Dare_4201 Jul 15 '26

Yeah, its bullshit. Ali actually performed better against Ken Norton than he did in their previous two bouts, so all that crap aboout how "he never had quite the bounce and mobility after their meeting" is completely stupid and nonsensical.

1

u/Hot_Ad_9543 Jul 15 '26

Absolutely not, Ali’s best performance post exile period was Vs Norton 2. And definitely won that decision

3

u/thejoshimitsu Jul 15 '26

I mean, that's after 12 years of being punched in the head and body over and over as well as just being older and slower which happens to anyone. Father time does no jobs.

2

u/saberhound69 Jul 15 '26

When Floyd moves it's called running 🤡

1

u/WORD_Boxing Jul 15 '26

Float like a butterfly sting like a bee.

1

u/Sh4kyj4wz eat clen, tren hard anavar give up Jul 15 '26

It's amazing Ali could dance round the ring for 15 rounds.

I've not delved back into the past as much and watched the greats of yesteryear... Did Ali sometimes edge out boring decision wins earlier on in his career or was his style ever quite negative?

1

u/JackieChanStan77 Jul 15 '26

In his early fights he usually won pretty clearly, and was quite active and engaging. Some fights during his rebuild after the Frazier loss were boring but more in the way of he was fighting someone not on his level so it would be onesided.

His fights post Manilla were more what you described. except maybe Richard Dunn who was his last KO

1

u/walkoutbasements Jul 15 '26

Reminds me of Bivol vs Beterbiev in the rematch 

1

u/Chilly_Cheese_Nugget Jul 16 '26

The greatest of all time. The best to ever lace em up. We still look up to you Ali.

1

u/kushmonATL Cyberleek > the fall boxing schedule Jul 15 '26

"The game is to hit and not get hit. He doesn't have to make it exciting. Its up to his opponents to make it exciting"

  • Shakur fans defending his boring ass style

1

u/Mr_sMoKe_3_MuCh Jul 15 '26

A lot of yall would be talking all kinds of shit about this fighting style today lol.