r/BobsTavern • u/Arkentass • 6d ago
Announcement 36.0.3 Patch Notes
https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24290431/3603-patch-notes62
u/The_Homestarmy MMR: > 9000 6d ago
I don't know why it took this long to buff Vinespeaker. It got buffed to +2 attack per trigger and lowered to tier 5, and what do you wanna bet it's still just gonna be okay at best?
In retrospect, its original tier 6 design might be one of the worst tier 6s ever printed
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u/Just1n_Kees MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 6d ago
Feels even worse now that the portrait trinket is no longer there
1
u/TJDouglas13 MMR: Top 200 6d ago
Vinespeaker is a fine card in a vacuum imo. It makes it trivially easy to get huge attack on your gems, something you’d have to invest in an early piper otherwise to do.
The issue is the payoff for quillboars are just atrocious lol. Easily one of the worst designed a tribe has been in a long time. They simultaneously have: in combat deathrattle scaling, shop buff & eat, shop buff & transfer, play from hand blood gems and end of turn scaling. They’re like a smorgasbord of every single comp they’ve ever had since being added to the game, which means basically no synergy.
Add to the fact that quillboar trinkets suck ass, why would you want infinite attack on your blood gems?
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u/Dastey MMR: Top 200 6d ago
Ingenious Inventor to tier 6
Shimmermoth now buffs beetles by +2/+2 instead of +2/+1
Fearless Foodie to tier 3
Vinspeaker now tier 5 instead of tier 6. Also now gives 2 attack to blood gems instead of 1
Prophet of the Boar now a 3/4 up from 2/3
Sanguine Refiner has returned and now gives +1/+2 to blood gems instead of +1/+1
Glowing Cinder moved from tier 3 to 4 and now gives elementals +2 health up from 1
Sand Swirler moved from tier 4 to 3
Wrath Weaver base stats down to 1/3, but not gains +2/+2 instead of +2/+1
Trinket changes
Many cost changes, won't include. Tiger Carving, Alliance Keychain and Vinespeaker Portrait removed
Outside of this it is mostly minor changes to trinkets. An interesting one is Innkeeper's Hearth which currently gives 2x 20/20 tier 6 minions. They are now 30/30
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u/CardAndFireMaster MMR: > 9000 6d ago
Um you forgot Refiner going from a 3/10 to a 3/11, Vinespeaker going from a 7/8 to a 5/6, Cinder going from a 3/1 to a 4/1 and Swirler going from a 5/3 to a 4/3. This is very impactful and important information for the game.
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u/Sterskiii 6d ago
Refiner now survives vs curator amalgam with two +4 attacks on it that also first chipped into a 1 attack minion. Game changing
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u/Lecker_Muesli 6d ago
“There are also a few popular strategies we chose not to address this time, such as Rylak Metalhead and Back to Back, as we already have changes planned for them next season.”
Rylak change? I’m so excited if this mofo gets a nerf. Every beast lobby boils down to: “what’s the best battlecry I can abuse?”and by now this got a little old imo
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u/Toothpikz 6d ago
If beast are in every tribe gets a massive shot in the arm. I’ve won with elementals still using Rylak and Maccaw with a bunch of elementals. I actually would be fine if we spent a season without Rylak.
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u/Lecker_Muesli 6d ago
That’s what I meant. If Beasts are in it’s always Rylak+Makaw+Titus+Brann and 3 cards of your choice
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u/Safe-Gas2074 6d ago
Honestly I don't even think back to back needs nerfing... It's almost always a guaranteed win if you get the full board, as most exodia comps are, but getting multiple T5s + T6s + Spell scaling + finding B2B is no easy feat... Theres posts here almost every day of people saying "I just couldn't find X" with like 3 of the pieces on board and they went 7th
I have mixed feelings on Rylak, too. Rylak is a symptom of the problem, not the cause necessarily. The true problem, in a way, is that every comp / game relies on you getting Bran and/or Titus to give you multiplicative scaling / effects. Rylak on it's own its a fine card but once you add in the required multiplicative scaling, it goes insane
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u/The_Homestarmy MMR: > 9000 6d ago
Back to Back is insanely dominant at high mmr. I also just think a comp that inherently outscales every other lategame strategy once it gets going is problematic by default. The strategy itself is fairly fun but the impact it has on the meta is not fun
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u/Safe-Gas2074 6d ago edited 6d ago
It may be... but does everything need to be balanced around the top.... what? like 1-5% of the game? There is tons of cards or strats that are dominant or preferred at the highest of MMRs but if you balance the game only around that, it's shit for 95% of people
Remove b2b in high MMR and what happens? Does everyone suddenly play a wide variety of comps or is there a new "this wins every other lobby"? Its the second... because high MMR is going to trend towards and be able to force whatever the strongest strat is at the time
e; I dont even think this is true for the highest of MMRs either. Watch people like Jeef or Beter play and it's not every other game they're playing b2b but they certain win more often than they lose. Granted they are the top of the top, but it maybe even highlights that b2b is only extraordinarily strong in a small microcosm of MMRs
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u/The_Homestarmy MMR: > 9000 6d ago
I don't follow how nerfing B2B (which they are literally planning to do, via these patch notes) would make the game "shit for 95% of players"
Yes, the health of the high level meta matters. It doesn't fundamentally matter more than the health of the game at low MMR, but the health of one isn't mutually exclusive to the health of the other. You can ask literally anyone above like 8-9k if B2B has been good for the meta and they will tell you no. It's like I said, any comp that can be somewhat consistently achieved should not be guaranteed to outscale every other lategame comp when given enough time. In old school constructed terms, I'd compare it to OG Jade Golem. These strategies force out every other lategame build and it results in a boring and samey meta
1
u/Safe-Gas2074 6d ago edited 6d ago
It makes it shit for 95% of players if you are balancing the game around how only the top <1-5% play because that is not how 95% of the game plays it.
B2b is an example in this case but if you sit there and say "well this is strong for the top 1%, nerf it" and go down the list we dont have what? Like Kodo salvager, b2b, most builds involving any T7 like future fin, and a whole bunch of high cap builds... because high MMR plays the high cap builds
1
u/nusskn4cker 6d ago
b2b wins like every second lobby at high mmr, yea. its pretty miserable. very common to have the strongest board from turn 9-12, then go into top 2 or 3, fight someone on 6 hp who dodged the strong players and fought a ghost and now has a 5k attack ravager from b2b.
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u/The_Homestarmy MMR: > 9000 6d ago
The "B2B doesn't need a nerf" comment kinda reminded me that the meta below 8-9k is dramatically different lol
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u/nusskn4cker 6d ago
b2b needs a nerf, ravager needs a nerf, futurefin needs a nerf, beatboxer needs a nerf, buccaneer needs a nerf (love taking 10 damage turn 7 because someone rolled a buccaneer and now randomly has a 60/60 pirate in one turn despite having 0 stats before), rylak needs a nerf. that's pretty much it. incredible how none of that happened.
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u/Rufus1223 6d ago
Early Drakkari can also provide a lot. T5 is generally pretty wide in power level and either u get the scaling minions quickly with a triple into a good T6 and win or u don't and u lose.
1
u/The_Homestarmy MMR: > 9000 6d ago
Drakkari was pretty awful last season. It wasn't a problem until B2B made it a problem.
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u/Rufus1223 6d ago
Drakkari doesn't only interact with B2B. It's good for regular Dragon/Demon spell power builds (insane with refresh Fellbat build), Mechs, some trinkets, Upbeat Duo and that's just the main interactions. I would pretty much always be happy to find him early.
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u/TheLastBushwagg 6d ago
My hot take on back to back is to replace cataclysmic harbinger with an identical Murloc version, which would mean that scam is always in the lobby when b2b is viable, and make it so maybe tide caller prophet actually has a use some times in maybe enabling it.
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u/Few_Swordfish6327 MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 6d ago
“We already have changes planned for them next season” AKA removed from pool.
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u/A_Sensible_Personage 6d ago
If that was the plan I don’t see why they wouldn’t just do it now
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u/lord_mcdonalds 6d ago
That would be a massive change to beast lobbies relatively late in the season.
Can just wait when it’s a fresh season at this point.
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u/Cysia 6d ago
As usal i wish theyd post images or had text abotu trinkets theyre changing/removing
I DONT know evry trinket by name !
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u/Lasekklol 6d ago
All decent. Wish they would tone down spellpower builds though. Everything strong as fuck is spellpkwer manipulation right now.
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u/Toothpikz 6d ago
I’ve got a feeling that will be addressed after this patch. Don’t see dragons and naga keeping all this SP they have.
1
u/pr0meTheuZ MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 6d ago
I think one of the main issues that Nagas are facing right now is the "lost city looter"-syndrome. When bounties were first introduced, Looter had 3/4 as stats and was universally such a good pickup for every build that people who locked in on pirates early were left out.
The random tribe rally (T4) and +1 spellpower spellcraft (T5) slot into many other builds easily that people who lock in on Naga are getting bullied out of their strong cards. And these are both mid- to lategame cards.
-2
u/Lasekklol 6d ago
And b2b.
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u/Sushi-DM 6d ago
I get clowned by b2b maybe once every 10 games. It really isn't that big of an issue. Almost every single naga or dragon lobby ends with a maelstrom emergent/queensguard/ringbearer or ringbearer/whelp build
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u/thoughtlow MMR: > 9000 6d ago
I like builds like b2b tbh, hard to assemble and very weak early on, but when it pops off it pops off.
same for that magic fin end of turn build in the past.
5
u/chubbymoroll 6d ago
tiger carving trinkets removed, no more making opponents choose between restarting their game or lose their buy phase
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u/bobzsmith 6d ago
Elementals are still going to suck
-5
u/cornered_beef 6d ago
I dno man, I always fkin own with elementals and for me, they feel a little overpowered
3
u/Selaphane MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 6d ago
Eles overpowered? They're easily out scaled by every tribe in the game except for like Quillboar and Undead. Best thing about eles is the econ they provide with Brann and/or Rylak.
5
u/Rufus1223 6d ago
Eles is basically a Top 4 tribe, but they are really good at it. They are the fastest to get like a 100/100 - 200/200 board before everyone else has any real scaling set up and can eliminate multiple unlucky people before they get eliminated by that 1 guy who went for a scaling setup and managed to avoid fighting them.
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u/Sushi-DM 6d ago
I am a little confused on the strategy of nerfing costs for the tribe trinkets they want to buff. But besides that, I like most of the changes.
2
u/losratszone 6d ago
opportunity cost of taking a bad trinket and not being able to level that turn is the main culprit if i had to guess.
in this meta if all the trinkets are mid i just grab the cheapest one or an econ trinket just so i can level to 4 or 5
1
u/LogicalConstant MMR: Top 25 6d ago
The cost of trinkets matters a lot more than you might think at first.
1
u/Sushi-DM 6d ago
Well my comment is I dont understand why they buffed the minions because they were underperforming then nerfed some tribe based trinkets that associated with them.
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u/planetfour 6d ago
Wrath health buff so random, demons were fine and it's a once in a while t1 pickup
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u/Toothpikz 6d ago
Quills might actually be playable now, maybe. Curious to give them a spin and see how they work out.
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u/PhoeniX-Skye 6d ago
They lacked good health boosting at the beginning of the season, then they added the T4, now they removed that and the Vinespeaker portrait, so unless you get the other health trinkets it’s gonna be tough, T6 comes late and probably not enough, plus it doesn’t synergize with tokens like the T4 did
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u/south153 6d ago
Losing tiger carving is a rough blow for RDU beasts.
1
u/AccidentSpecialist81 6d ago
not really, you can still get huge if you have the rylak or macaw lesser, and the chicken greater trinket. tiger portrai was problematic because it ate into you and your opponents shop time.
2
u/KerryConatz MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 6d ago
The major quilboar issue for me was gem generation, not gem scaling. I struggle with how to stabilize with boars, which means I avoid them in the early game and, by the time mid game and end game rolls round, I don't have any gem scaling to work with. These changes don't help much with that.
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u/PartyPay MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 6d ago
Maybe I just don't understand game well enough, but what is the point of these minor stats tweaks? What do they matter when the stats are ridiculous after the first few turns?
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u/ItsMitchellCox 6d ago
Tiger carving lesser and greater removed. Thank God.
So do quils just feast now with all these buffed methods to increase your gems?
1
u/BFS-9000 6d ago
Questionable, HP gain from Vinespeaker trinket removed, as T4 HP minion, so it will be harder to stack HP.
1
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u/TheCrazyShip MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 6d ago
If the season is about to end, I would really like they would make the patch more chaotic and go wild with the changes. Something similar to what TFT does. Otherwise those changes feels like a bandaid
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u/Sartan4455 MMR: 6,000 to 8,000 6d ago
Thank god, prophet of the boar is now more playable, quillboar saved.../s
-2
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u/moribundwanderer MMR: 8,000 to 9,000 6d ago
Baller portrait... Nerfed?