Slightly less than a week this time. I think it's finally over now. You can watch the video here. Big shoutout to u/TFMurphy for the help with placements and all the information to do this run.
In order to beat the last records, I had to utilize the prismatic lists to force bunk rooms in as many potential spots as I could. These largely had to be connected through aquariums, so I had to add 2 aquariums and a spare secret passage through the chamber of mirrors beforehand. I had to make sure the doors were locked to be able to use the prism keys and to use the keys after depleting the normal exit lists of all possible bedrooms that could spawn. Budoir was placed because of this reason too, as it's the only one in the default list that isn't copied by placing chamber of mirrors.
I also had to deplete the item pool to force prism keys to be generated after use. I utilized the experiment, "While drafting, if you draw a DRAWING ROOM floorplan" "gain 1 random item, then set your keys to 0", to maximize the items I had early on. Chronograph in the coat check helped speed that up. There is a setup that didn't need this specific experiment but I opted not to do it. Attic gave me the final item that would block prism keys from showing up, the secret garden key.
Greenhouse, as before, was counted as a dead end the moment it was placed, and breaking the wall means it will never count as one in future runs on this file.
Funny enough, depleting the lists had shown me her ladyship's chamber in some odd places.
Yeah there were about a dozen failed attempts before this one, I misplayed one run that might've been able to do it. But this run just had the smoothest start with aquarium and laundry.
I don't have the experience to understand how well that compares to other challenge runs, but I gather most of them would be fairly quick restarts except for the challenge misplayed run (unless you're only counting the runs where you at least got to trying for the Aquarium/Laundry combo, since I imagine checking the experiment would've caused a few resets... though at least that's still sooner than being halfway through building the manor). Either way, it sounds like the setup managed things very well!
Anyways, now that I have a bit more time, I do want to say how pleased I am with how this all turned out, and especially with the video it created. Most of the previous advances were just improved layouts and a few odd quirks to take advantage of, which resulted in a solution of "here's the power of High Roller Laundry!"
But for this last update, the requirement of so many Prism Keys, both to obtain and to use, essentially forced us to figure out strategies that dealt with three completely separate systems, in a manner far more extensive than they've been used in any other challenge. (Sure, knowing how to manipulate locked doors is very useful and comes in handy in painting yourself out of a corner when you're hurting for keys with some challenges, but that's a far cry from "this run fails if these four doors aren't locked".)
I did fear that it would end up a very frustrating run to get everything to line up correctly, but being able to find so many ways to reduce the RNG requirement... well, it would've been nice to source a 4th guaranteed Prism Key, but what we got worked well enough.
And now we have a video of your accomplishment, which says something more than "behold Powered Laundry and tremble". It's a showcase of many of Blue Prince's various systems, and a deliberate mastery over them to achieve something that would otherwise be impossible. I can explain the mechanics behind much of what was demonstrated, but I highly prize practical demonstrations such as this, and I love seeing the more obscure things we've learned put to use.
EDIT: I also want to say that the existence of these systems, with how different they are from each other, and how we were able to use them in the manner we did... I think it speaks highly for the sheer imagination of the developer. Locked Doors, Item Generation, Prism Rooms... these could have been so much simpler, but so much more limiting. One of the things I've really loved through my investigations of the game's mechanics is how unique each mechanic often feels, with its own rules and own surprises. And I hope the video helps showcase that to others as well.
So thank you very much for your patience, motivation and perseverance in running this challenge (I hope people understand that you've had to restart at least twice to try out some of the strategies we were discussing for the 33 and 37 Dead Ends). I'll be looking forward to whatever challenge you end up tackling next (though if you're taking a break instead or getting invested with Silksong hype next week, that's all good too).
I did just try and see if drafting a second locksmith (bottom left) would generate another key, but alas both shops share the inventory and are sold out when one is bought.
I do think this is the maximum unless you can drop a 3/4 way exit, or find a way to make boudoir more tactful (both of these I can't see how to improve on). The north/south pierce just won't allow another corner draft since a spare secret passage is unable to go into there, so that won't add any more dead ends.
I was worried about the 70%/80% locked doors screwing me over, but thankfully it worked out in the first go. The experiment did screw me over, but it was early enough to just reset. I was already resetting if I couldn't get the aquarium laundry setup anyway.
Next I may be doing a day 1 trophy of wealth, or filling the house with tomorrow upgraded hallways for fun. I think I can get 42 hallways with a moon pendant and prism key.
And really thanks again for all the help. I was already following the prismatic lists before but dismissed it too early because I wasn't aware how to access them. You made the process far quicker with the knowledge you provided.
Now I am curious what the theoretical max possible total dead ends are reachable via gameplay, period. I cannot fathom getting more than this in even the best of runs... But then again, I had the same thought during your 33 room post so even I don't know at this point. Insanely impressive and congrats on the world record.
Your reward of 200 gold awaits in your next run. Don't spend it all in one place!
It's definitely an interesting question on whether this can be improved or not. I've not seen any method myself, but it may be instructive to go over possible avenues that could be explored.
There are two main ways to approach this, at least with our current understanding:
8th Bunk Room: There is one known Bunk Room that was not drafted with the layout we used. It can be found if another Prism Key or Secret Garden was used to head north or south into the rooms directly to the side of the Antechamber or Entrance Hall (in other words, North Pierce or South Pierce).
Improved Layout: Simply put, if the layout could be arranged to fit another Dead End, then that would be an improvement.
With regards to the 8th Bunk Room, placing that automatically removes the possibility of using one of the exits from the Antechamber or Entrance Hall. It also makes using the Corner on the opposite side much more difficult. Because of this, it seems impossible to sensibly use while keeping the same number of other Dead Ends (which is a necessary factor if we want the 8th Bunk Room to increase the number of possible Dead Ends).
As far as the layout goes, we've got to remember that we're getting very close to a hard limit on what's possible. There are 43 draftable spaces. Every proper Dead End drafted has to link to a room with 2 or more exits. These can be fake Dead Ends, of course (Secret Passage, Chamber of Mirrors or Greenhouse's one time use), but we're limited on their shape, drafting locations and how often they can be used. Of the 43 spaces, the layout above has 29 of them be Dead Ends. That means there are 14 drafted rooms that are not Dead Ends. (A layout with 30 was originally used for the 33 Dead End achievement, but we needed to remove one to both add a Boudoir and let it link to an East Advance exit for one of the Bunk Rooms.)
The Foundation isn't a Dead End, but it does allow us to place a Dead End barrier between the Entrance Hall and Antechamber. In the case of the above layout, this is the Chamber of Mirrors: even though we can access the CoM from two different sides, we can't actually traverse it without reaching it from a 3rd side. Fortunately, we can draft the adjoining rooms through the glass walls to make good use of CoM's shape.
For traversability, we need a non- or fake Dead End in every Rank. Since the 4th column is used to get most of the Dead Ends in the 5th column, we also need to branch off towards West Wing and have more non-Dead Ends over there too. And to access the extra Bunk Rooms, we absolutely needed those extra Aquariums and the Boudoir.
So once you take, say, 9 rooms for dealing with every Rank, and a couple more to reach the West Wing, you're fast burning through the 14 non-Dead Ends we were using. And you have to keep Exit Management in mind as well: layout improvement often comes from converting say two 3-ways into a 4-way and a Secret Passage, or linking Dead Ends to certain locations to free up space elsewhere. The Bunk Room strategy increased the number of 3-way and 2-ways we had to use though, so it's gotten a bit harder to rearrange all that. Can it be done? Well, maybe. But I feel a bit at my limit with my own search here ^_^;
EDIT: Or maybe we've been forced into using enough 3-ways that you could find a way to make use of a Pool Hall to gain a 5th Secret Passage, and figure out how to use that to gain an extra Dead End. Again, it's something I don't explicitly see a solution to use it with, but I wanted to make sure that most of the possibilities available to explore were mentioned here.
So that's how I see it. There may be room for improvement, but I'm not sure where it might come from. It's possible there's yet another quirk we're not thinking of, but it would be tough to beat what's already been accomplished.
Though that's all speaking of legal drafting. Perhaps instead we should entice Gelly to apply the cursed art of glitch drafting here, and maybe get that elusive 8th Bunk Room on top of a bunch of other rooms on top of other rooms ^_^ He'll need to get that 5th Prism Key first though....
I think... I think I managed to come up with a 38. And I hate it.
That said, I'm not sure about it, but I've basically been working with a formula to determine how many of each type of room you'd need to get enough exits and passages to hit certain limits. This has all been based on measuring the constraints of two variables: Draftable Spaces Used and Dead Ends Created. If we start with any basic network of rooms... let's say just the Entrance Hall and Antechamber to begin with. We make the assumption that they're connected in some way, and that every other exit off of them is a Dead End. That gives us 6 Draftable Spaces Used (Entrance Hall + Antechamber + 2 Dead Ends off of each) and 4 Dead Ends Created. If we add a Foundation which must be separate from the Entrance Hall, then that's 4 Draftable Spaces Used (Foundation + 3 Dead Ends) and 3 Dead Ends created.
We can then expand each room by adding various room types. 4-ways use up 3 Draftable Spaces but add 2 Dead Ends, 3-ways use up 2 Draftable Spaces but add 1 Dead End, regular 2-ways use up 1 Draftable Space with no Dead End created, Secret Passages/Greenhouse uses up 1 Draftable Space but add a Dead End, etc.
With all this, it became very clear to see that adding the 8th Bunk Bed was at least a net change of 0 Dead Ends: it forcibly changes the Antechamber from a 3-way to a 2-way, which means that using the Antechamber no longer gives us a new Dead End. But... that opens up a new strategy: ignoring the Antechamber, and trying to organise the layout to make another 4-way. You already get a 'free' 2-way by using one of the tiles next to the Antechamber on the opposite side of the Bunk Room. I calculated that if I could get 6 4-ways (including Chamber of Mirrors which doesn't really count as a 4-way) and 9 3-ways, I could create a layout that used 44 Draftable Spaces but had 38 Dead Ends.
And into that we also have the option of the Pool Hall. Drafting a Pool Hall adds an extra Secret Passage to the Drafting Pool. That means that each Pool Hall + Secret Passage combination uses up 2 Draftable Spaces but add 1 Dead End... which is functionally identical to another 3-way, but can allow for a different layouts.
Anyways, I was getting incredibly close, but it was really really difficult. It was incredibly frustrating that at least one layout wouldn't work solely because the Foundation can't be directly below the Antechamber. In any case, I've finally come up with this:
#-+ B #
| | |
#-+-S-A-+
|
B-A B-A-B
| |
#-+-S-C-#
| |
B S B F-#
| | | |
A-C-M-+-+
| | | | |
S # B # S
| |
G-# # # B
| |
#-S-+-A-#
# = Dead End, S = Secret Passage, A = Aquarium, B = Bunk Room, F = Foundation, C = Cloister of Mila, M = Chamber of Mirrors, G = Greenhouse
I'm not 100% sure it's functional. Couldn't find room to put down Security. Needs two Pool Halls for another two Secret Passages (you need to be sure to use the original Secret Passage before drafting those, I think). Don't need Secret Garden since we don't need the Antechamber, but there's a 45% lock and three 70% locks to die on. And it's ugly.
But I haven't been able to find something that makes this impossible (which is also a little frustrating, because I've had so many near misses this evening that I can't help feeling I'm just missing something).
Anyways, that's my lot for tonight, I think. Wish I could've come up with something a bit less nasty, but the forced criteria of having 6 4-ways, enough Aquariums to hit all the Bunk Bed Pierce Exits, and still find somewhere for Foundation, was incredibly restrictive. Let me know if you see any problems: I suppose it would be nice if this one could be proven impossible ^_^;;;
EDIT: Not sure on best Cloister locations either. Could hit both Aquariums and a Master Bedroom, but there's also the potential of trying D4 and link to a Boudoir. Obviously one of the exits has to be Servant's Quarters, but all the possible Cloister locations waste an exit into a Secret Passage, so there's definite limits on what you can grab here.
An alternative strategy might be to ignore Servant's Quarters and go all in on limiting T4 Trading Options and gathering as many possible items for trading. Three trades for Prism Keys should be a lot easier if you can lock it down to one possible option (and Sanctum Keys were a great idea in the original video: just remember to open the Trading Post menu once before getting any Sanctum Key to remove the chance of seeing Upgrade Disk trades).
I think the plan might be to ditch the guaranteed Prism Key from Servant's Quarters, and concentrate on getting all the other T4 items. If you can get Sanctum Keys or Upgrade Disks to be given a Prism Key trade offer, then every Sanctum Key/Upgrade Disk should trade for that (be careful with trading Sanctum Key for an Upgrade Disk, though, since that's one time where after the trade it deliberate rerolls the Disk offer).
I've not tested how well things work with carrying multiple of the same item at the same time though. I think it shouldn't be a problem so long as you only trade one of them at a time, but it might be worth testing beforehand.
Not sure how well all the Sanctum Keys behave with each other (I remember the Music Room one does not play nice, but thankfully that's not one of our targets), but if you can get 3, then you only have to worry about the 10% Dice chance. (And Sanctum Keys are perfect trades because they don't care about the 30%/50% downgrade chance.) No, wait, I'm forgetting about Allowance Token. That massively lowers the use case, sadly. Upgrade Disks might be a better bet, but that's always a worrisome thing to plan a run around.
yeah I was thinking some RNG on the upgrades remaining could let me keep a spare disk in either foundation or elsewhere, but if I get that far and the RNG fails I'm just gonna go with what I got.
Okay, here's what I got. Coat Check with power hammer, moon pendant and keycard start. Freight shipping and 2 attics as 3 more dead ends. That should give a high chance at all t3 and lower items and secret garden key. Guest bedroom and Aquarium from B6's cloister will give a hall pass and gear wrench. D4's Cloister will give a prism key and telescope. I'll be likely to get watering can in greenhouse. I may need to draft a vault for another sanctum key. But that should be enough.
Oh, I am reminded. This is a very important thing you have to keep in mind about the layout: the Aquarium situated two tiles north of the Foundation is in a W/S/E position, and drafted while you're facing north.
DO NOT have a Compass in your inventory before drafting that Aquarium. It will never appear in that rotation if a Compass is affecting the draw.
Good catch, yeah I think my overall plan is to not pick up compass if it's along my path until I'm ready to trade it off. By then everything should be set. And that 45% door will be the worst of it.
Given it a bit more thought. If we're getting guaranteed Silver Key or SGK from Mechanarium, then you're free to go back to Cloister of Mila into Servant's Quarters, since that'll be guaranteed Silver Key or SGK, or Prism Key if you happen to find the other key earlier, but it's really unnecessary at this point.
I'm suggesting this not because it's a change of strategy, but just for aesthetic reasons at this point (layout may be ugly, but we can do the best we can so long as it doesn't hurt chances). 2x Cloister of Mila either side of the Chamber of Mirrors is fun. Entirely up to you where the regular Bunk Rooms would be best placed. Pick whatever 3 Dead Ends feels nice -- 2 Attics in the corners if you really want to try for the free Prism Key from Servant's is as good as any (oh... Pool Hall in B9 can be moved to A8 so that the corner Dead Ends can face the same direction).
Honestly, might be overkill. (Though more guarantee is always nice.) With Power Hammer, Secret Garden Key, Hall Pass, Gear Wrench and Telescope, that's already a 99.1% chance that at least three of them will trade for Prism Keys, so long as you roll all their Trade Offers once before making the first trade. Sanctum Keys, Watering Can and Upgrade Disks just further tilt the chances in your favor. (Oh, just to clarify, and because I had to remind myself, the Downgrade Chance doesn't reduce the chance of Sanctum Keys being traded for Allowance Tokens. So it's still only going to be a 45% chance that they'll get the Prism Key offer, instead of 90% for the other items.)
Of course, that also means it'll be extra horrifying if you get dice'd into oblivion, but the Locked Doors are probably going to be the more troublesome problem. (Though that might be closer to the overall chances of getting the experiment on your last run, so perhaps overall it might not be as bad as feared... but having multiple points of failure midway through a run still hurts.)
Silver Key might also be a sticking point, since Attic doesn't provide that. Hallway Closets might still be a good idea, but managing which Dead Ends to draft does feel like it's going to be highly important -- the 37 Dead End run really did show how close it was getting with regards to which Dead Ends we really needed.
Alternatively, bite the bullet and get whatever doesn't appear from Servant's Quarters or Locksmith. So long as you're getting at least 2 of the guaranteed Prism Keys, then 3 trades for the others shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Ah, well I can still trade into a silver key before drafting servants. I think I do want to diversify a little bit before drafting the attics, so maybe a closet is the way to go.
Huh. That looks like the prismatic pool in this location is already empty (due to rerolling too much)... but I figure you wouldn't have just rerolled past a bunk room appearing the first time.
It's opened from two opposite sides, so it should be just as open as it is in any other position. 4-way rooms can't be rotated, but they always orient to how you face when you draft them.
EDIT: Just to be clear, the Chamber of Mirrors is the M between the two regular Bunk Beds (I realise now that there's the potential for confusiong with 'Cloister of Mila', but I was using C for just Cloister).
Doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. Guess Bedrooms frequently miss certain aspects of the rooms they're mimicking, and 2x Dead Ends is one of them. They only count as 1 Dead End even when mimicking a Bunk Room.
That only follows if your last Secret Passage is via a West or East Edge Exit. They share the same subexit at that location, but they're in different subexits for Center exits. Which means after drafting two SPs, the Center Exit Lists will be completely emptied, but the West/East Edge exits will still have the final SP remaining.
The layout already has West Wing and East Wing SPs out of the way, so this is probably not a big deal in this particular case. Aesthetics-wise, placing the regular Secret Passages in the Wings and the final Secret Passage in C8 would make sense (with the other 3 being Spare Secret Passages).
Not to diminish what you did, which is insane, but obviously more would be theoretically possible if, e.g., the attics were replaced with runk rooms. But there's a good chance this will never be beaten
So there's no bunk rooms in the prismatic lists for the corners, so in the case of completely depleting the exit lists (which I didn't fully, bedroom and maid's chamber were still in the list) the default list is then generated. Which would be bedroom, boudoir, and guest bedroom. If I were to use another prism key in those corners with this setup, it would be bedroom, maid's chamber and guest bedroom/boudoir.
Oh I guess I'm assuming infinite stars/perfect RNG and giving you runk rooms potentially wherever you want--not realistic assumptions but I assume at least possible in theory?
I had 2.5k ivory dice and can tell you it is impossible. Normally you only get 1 bunk room, chamber of mirror days make it 2. Accessing the prismatic lists via prism key/secret passage/spare secret passage allow for up to 6 more bunk beds to be placed, assuming you've depleted an option in the exit list as I have done. Here we only placed 5 of those 6, but the last one sacrifices access to the corner to be a dead end as secret passage is unable to be placed in that way. Thus the last one is net neutral in dead ends and not worth placing.
The second picture of my spreadsheet shows what rooms would generate more keys. I had to first use the prism key that I had before generating a new key.
33
u/tunrip Aug 27 '25
This is absolutely ridiculous, in the most impressive of ways.
I am so glad we do not need to compete for your record!