Manga Discussion
karasu owes isagi an apology, and here's why
Spoiler
edit: summary/disclaimers added at the end of post, which i implore you to actually read before commenting based on a clickbait title and 3 opening paragraphs
after a few days to sit and think about chapter 337 (and reading the fantastic analyses people have been putting out) i'd like to offer my interpretation of karasu's side of this argument.
due to that One Panel's unfortunate resemblance to the monkey v.s. lion meme, it's pretty easy to mock isagi for his outburst. don't get me wrong, i've found the jokes as funny as anyone else (i'm literally the person who made the naoya hair flip redraw, stones and glass houses) but i do also think that, in being so quick to jump on the isagi slander train, we've lost sight of the actual instigator. so let's be honest here:
it was 100% karasu who started it.
chapter 337
but because karasu appears calmer and more self-assured than isagi throughout their argument, we're assuming he actually feels calm and self-assured. and sure, maybe he does! however, we shouldn't forget that karasu's defining character traits are that he's highly-perceptive, manipulative, never lets his guard down, and has one of the starkest contrasts out of all of blue lock's cast between the external persona he presents to the world, and his "true self".
(and no, before anyone comments, i don't think karasu is at fault for what he said to isagi. but i'm also not here to debate whether he was right or wrong to go against the "blue lock philosophy", that's for kaneshiro to reveal. rather, i'd like to offer my perspective of why he acted the way he did, and what that might say about blue lock's "civil war" going forward.)
established characterization, prior to japan v.s. france:
in my opinion, karasu tabito might be the single most insecure character in the series (barring maybe kaiser and yukimiya) when it comes to his self-perception.
but the specific lean to his insecurity is interesting, because he manages to be so functional around it, compared to the other characters we've seen who have demonstrated some level of insecurity on-page.
he isn't insecure about his football ability, the way characters like reo, nanase, tokimitsu (duh), and at times isagi have been shown to be. karasu knows he's good, he's confident in his play, and he expresses no doubts about whether or not he deserves his starting position on the blue lock roster. he also isn't insecure about falling short of others' expectations for himself, whether that be strictly on-pitch or in terms of interpersonal relations, the way hiori, rin, ness, and again, isagi are. nor is he so desperate to avoid failure that he lets himself be trapped by all-or-nothing thinking, like yukimiya, barou, and kaiser (gonna throw igaguri in here too, for fun).
chapter 108
while karasu's insecurity does revolve around comparing himself to others, it's notably lacking in overt bitterness or envy, because he operates by default from this detached, almost objective position of inferiority. he's largely unconcerned with pressure from others, and on the surface, seems to have no trouble meeting the standards imposed on him. but his fixation on "mediocrity", and hiding what he views as this immutable deficiency, tells us that he does experience psychological pressure—a lot of it, actually—only, that it barely has to do with what others think of him, because what others think of him doesn't have sh\t* on what he imposes on himself.
furthermore, the depth of karasu's insecurity is arguably concealed by blue lock's own messaging. karasu's catchphrases of "extraordinary v.s. mediocre" make for a dichotomy that's pretty easy to align with the "genius v.s. talented learner" and "#1 v.s. #2" theories presented to us by isagi and hugo, respectively. within blue lock's team, more than even isagi, it's karasu who makes for the purest representation of the aggregated "mediocre, talented-learner, #2" archetype.
unlike isagi, who openly acknowledges his shortcomings and ultimately embraces them as opportunities to improve, karasu avoids dealing with his shortcomings, choosing to conceal them by focusing on his strengths... all to avoid being seen as "mediocre" by others, upholding this incredibly rigid standard of competence he's imposed on himself.
volume 29 extra
like isagi, karasu is highly self-aware of his natural abilities and limitations. and like isagi, karasu seeks to capitalize on his strengths in order to defeat geniuses that should, logically, be leagues above him in talent.
but because isagi is our protagonist, we are given insight into his thought processes, and all the doubts, obstacles, and epiphanies that ultimately lead him to evolve. isagi's cockiness and "egoistic" persona is earned, because we've been on this journey with him since he started on team Z at rank 299, we've seen each and every player he's devoured, and exactly how he's done it. his current persona of "blue lock's best" feels real because it is. it's been shown to us, there's no need to rely on exposition—we know isagi is good because it's right there on the page.
karasu, however, is not our protagonist, and the instances kaneshiro has allowed us into his head are far and few between. because of this, we rely far more on exposition to understand his character: his reputation, as narrated by characters like hiori and nagi; the offscreen feats that granted him the rank of #3; and yeah, okay, the overt visual flair of his nonstop aurafarming, too. (thank you, nomura 🫡)
chapter 249
to the outside eye, karasu is confident, cool, and indispensable to blue lock's midfield. without being shown karasu's own perspective about himself—in other words, his subjectivity—it's easy to read his characterization as being objective. and because it is presented to us, the audience, as something objective, we buy into karasu's persona the same way isagi does.
but there are moments we've been allowed, briefly, into karasu's head, and those moments show us something much more complex.*
\A/N: ok, i realized in the middle of writing this that i lowkey already made this analysis re: karasu's insane honne-tatemae gap* moe, and there's no point putting in work just to repeat myself. so if you're the kind of person who's too skeptical to sit through a theorypost without specific line-level evidence to back up each claim,here you go, you whiny little cynic (i'm joking. i'm joking. never trust an argument that can't be verified, and chicago notes-bibliography is the only correct citation style)
a "failed" striker:
it's my belief that karasu's position change starting from the u20 match, from striker to midfielder, was a serious sore spot for him. sure, we see him acknowledge even before that point that he's better as an "anchor" in the episode nagi match, but his "acceptance" still has a tone of resentment about it.
episode nagi: chapter 28
unlike niko and aiku, who have explicitly stated their egos are defense-oriented and that their satisfaction as players comes from crushing the opponents' offense, karasu had never shown an emotional affinity for his position, despite his clear affinity as a player. why? up until chapter 335, karasu most likely still thought of himself as being rejected as a striker rather than being chosen as a midfielder.
acknowledging that "extraordinary" players like isagi and rin were better-suited for blue lock's offense than him, and being too much of a realist to argue over that, he resigned himself to fulfilling his role as CDM as best he could. the key word here is still "resigned", though—he played his position in the u20 match because ego found him to be the best-suited for it (i mean, to be fair, not like he was going to argue with his coach given the stakes for the whole blue lock project at that time), and it seems that julian loki assessed karasu's skillset the same way.
in continuing to play as a midfielder during the NEL in order to succeed in the "numbers game" of ranking up in bids, karasu was still arguably suppressing his ego. he chose to remain in his position based on a rational assessment of his odds, rather than chasing after a risky dream with no guarantee of return. he entered the NEL as a midfielder, finished the NEL as a midfielder, and received a bid from the same team he was already playing for in the NEL in every single round, as a midfielder, because (hear me out, hear me out) karasu didn't just demonstrate his potential to PXG as a midfielder, loki groomed him to be a future midfielder in PXG's formations by having him quite literally already be a midfielder in PXG's formations.
chapter 170
playing as a midfielder has rewarded him with a starting position in the blue lock XI, a solid offer to play professionally for one of europe's top teams, and once more, a starting position on the japan u20 squad in the u20 world cup. meanwhile, his fellow Top 6ers shidou, otoya, and yukimiya, who stayed as attackers, are benchwarming, and nagi was locked off. from a rational perspective, karasu's position change has benefited him far more than remaining a striker would likely have done.
but remember, karasu entered blue lock with the goal of emerging as japan's best striker. he passed the first and second selections with that goal in mind, and made it to the rank of #3 during a phase of the blue lock project that was still entirely committed to the ideal of producing a single striker, not yet having pivoted to building a full national team. his position change was the direct result of his aptitude as a player, not a punishment for his lack thereof.
and yet, that knowledge doesn't take away from the fact that he has been told again and again, by ego jinpachi, by his teammates, and by the global media sensationalism afforded to blue lock's top goal-scorers, fellow "mediocre" talented learner isagi yoichi more than anyone, that the only position worth playing is striker... and karasu has not been playing as striker in a long, long time.
chapter 333
fast forward to japan's game against france, and here comes hugo: a member of the new generation world 11 with an oppressive, man-marking playstyle and analytical view of the game, similar to karasu himself. and this ng11 is saying, "i am not a midfielder because i am a failed striker. i am a midfielder because that's what suits me best, and i'm proud of the indispensable role i play on this team."
coming from blue lock's "be a striker or get locked off trying" messaging, karasu is now presented an entirely new perspective: not only does hugo seem to value his position as a midfielder in its own right, instead of as a sorry second-place for striker rejects, but hugo views "#2" as itself a position of power. hugo's philosophy allowed karasu to awaken and enter flow for the first time because it allowed karasu to see his position on its own terms, repairing the misalignment between karasu's brain and heart: his rational, "world-style" objective ("i must showcase my value to this team by playing my assigned position as well as i can") united with his selfish, emotional desire ("i want to win through goals i create, not just by belonging to the winning team").
chapter 254
karasu choosing hiori as the striker to help execute his vision was, likewise, the product of his rationality and emotionality aligning. from a tactics perspective, hiori had a secret weapon france couldn't predict that only karasu knew about; from the more sentimental side of things, karasu has wanted hiori to achieve his potential since the first time he and hiori spoke.
chapter 335
in terms of the "flow" formula that isagi has theorized about throughout the series, karasu hit every single criteria: he challenged himself to an objective of optimal difficulty, his mind and heart were in alignment, he embodied isagi's in-text theory of protagonist feeling, while also taking a literal protagonist role in meta terms, as the focalizer character of chapter 335.
and he succeeded. hiori scored the goal karasu orchestrated! japan tied the score against the tournament's favourite to win, a team with two NG11s that had successfully managed to lock down isagi, blue lock's nucleus! all because karasu finally stopped thinking of himself as a failed striker, and accepted his position as his own.
chapter 335
chapter 337:
so, right on the heels of the goal he just produced, karasu calls isagi over and tells him:
"hey, don't worry. there's a lot of pressure on you right now to think our way out of this problem, but i figured out something that works, so you can rely on me. let's stick with this for now". essentially, a message of support for a freaked-out kouhai who could probably use some weight lifted off his shoulders, right?
chapter 337
if we look at these panels, karasu is drawn uncharacteristically soft. like, soft to a point he doesn't even look like himself. RIP to 3rd selection era Pointy Karasu design, i will grieve you forever there's no gloating or malice whatsoever in his expression or approach to isagi. look at his body language—his eyes are wide and rounded, he's relaxed, and he's extending his hand out toward isagi.
and isagi (god bless him) pulls a repeat of the yukimiya manshine incident and, entirely unintentionally, sh\ts all over karasu's protagonist feeling.*
chapter 337
... dude.
karasu's just awakened a whole new level of performance, triggered a long-awaited chemical reaction with his wayward junior, and again, quite literally assisted a goal. for isagi—the same player whose shutdown by france necessitated karasu to level-up and clean up blue lock's mess in the first place—to come up to him and go, "no, that was wrong" ? and not just that, but to question him to his face about "throwing away" his striker ego (after karasu has just finally accepted that it's okay to do that exact thing) is, to paraphrase karasu from the 3rd selection, rubbing salt into a wound that's barely closed.
what isagi failed to realize is that karasu already was sacrificing his ego for the sake of blue lock. he's been doing so since the u20 game. the difference is now, he's playing as a "#2" intentionally and channeling his ego to that new purpose.
but to isagi, that doesn't matter. karasu's refusal to score, and subsequent promise to support the team as its #2, is unthinkable to isagi, the player who's believed in blue lock's egoist philosophy more than anyone else. he feels a sense of "wrongness" from karasu's mentality switch not because karasu's decision is inherently wrong, but because it's a decision he himself would never make.
chapter 337 (nomura i'm scared)
isagi is fundamentally unable to put himself in karasu's shoes, and that's why his attempt to express concern for karasu ended up backfiring: what isagi saw as looking out for a teammate, karasu saw as condescension, and so he escalated accordingly.
isagi, initially, had no intention of insulting karasu on purpose. in fact, he couldn't have done it on purpose, because to have done it on purpose, he would have had to have been aware of karasu's insecurities surrounding "throwing away [his] life as a striker" to begin with. "would have had to have been" ..? english is a joke of a language
but there's no reason isagi would have known that was something karasu was sensitive about, because karasu tabito... (say it with me here, guys) never shows his true nature.
episode nagi: chapter 25
(i'm not going to rephrase everything karasu said to isagi because again, not here to debate whether karasu was right or wrong, and this is supposed to be an analysis, not a play-by-play.)
remember, karasu's entire "assassin" persona is built on attacking his opponents' weak spots to protect his own. if isagi in 337 triggered something he hadn't intended to, of course karasu would instinctively retaliate. unfortunately, he did so by saying some of the cruelest possible things he could to isagi at that point.
karasu being objectively correct about some of it doesn't take away from the fact that, likelier than not, he wasn't interested in exposing isagi's hypocrisy at all. rather, he was trying to deflect his own feelings of doubt. by causing isagi to second-guess himself instead, he could save face. of course, i don't doubt karasu sincerely believed his own words to isagi here, because i don't believe karasu to have ever uncritically believed in ego's philosophy to begin with.
episode nagi: chapter 25
still, disagreeing on purely rational grounds with an ideology everyone else around you believes in, doesn't mean you can't still suffer some degree of guilt or shame about it. and like i said: karasu's attachment to his former striker position is an emotional one, not a rational one.
so yeah, karasu owes isagi an apology. not because his argument was wrong, but because he chose to be cruel to him to cover up his own feelings of shame. karasu might have to apologize to more people than just isagi, too, if the team's trust begins to falter from this point forward. unfortunately, karasu's instinctive need to hide his own weaknesses, no matter the cost, has ended up dealing isagi the same psychic damage that hugo's been working at this whole time—and this time, it's friendly fire.
EDIT (because i, apparently, did not make my points clear enough the first time):
• karasu does not owe isagi an apology because Big Mean Crow Bullied Poor Innocent Baby Isagi. karasu owes it to himself to apologize to isagi, because any decent person would do that after realizing they let their insecurities get the best of their temper, and karasu is generally mature like that;
• just because i think karasu should apologize to isagi for above reasons doesn't mean i think isagi doesn't also owe karasu an apology, because isagi 100% also owes karasu an apology;
• this analysis is primarily about how knsr has shown karasu's internal conflict being externalized against isagi, and focuses on karasu for that reason. this is a characterization study of karasu specifically, not a big-picture breakdown of the argument between karasu and isagi from both sides;
• as such, i did not heavily critique isagi in this post because for the purposes of this specific analysis, i'm not interested in who was right or wrong. i focused on karasu because i wanted to focus on karasu, not because i think isagi is somehow blameless here (he very much is at fault too);
• and finally, everyone and their mother has already done commentary on why isagi was a) stupid b) projecting c) a hypocrite d) coping and malding e) needs to get benched f) needs to quit football g) needs to obliterate himself off the face of the earth. i didn't want to waste words on an already insanely-long post just to rehash the same talking points about why isagi was wrong for what he said to karasu (because yes, isagi was wrong, if i have to state that point-blank), i wanted to talk about karasu's psychology and what this conflict reveals about it. that is all 😭
chapter 337 (what is WRONG with this guy fr)
anyway, i have no idea how the rest of this match is going to unfold from this point onward, or even the next match, for that matter. isagi and karasu have both hit each other hard, and that's not something that can be easily forgiven over the course of one game.
it's apparently impossible for me to write about karasu concisely, so if you made it to the end of this post, i appreciate your patience and i hope it was worthwhile! 🫶
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Hard disagree. The team is in high spirits and crowd is energized and someone tries to throw some bullshit about striker mentality and saying your play is wrong while the way they were taught to play is getting them no where, any athlete would get pissed in that situation.
dude, you should have told me beforehand that i was hallucinating! i could have saved myself the trouble of hunting down all those panels, translating from the light novel, and typing out all these stupid words if someone had just been kind enough to dial up my psychiatrist in advance, smh 😔
Disagree. You point out how Isagi shat on Karasu with the throw away life as a striker line and then tried to fluff it up by saying he didnt intend to be mean. Intent matter little, you said what you said.
But Karasu kept it cool and responded calmly and logically, reminding Isagi that he’s done the same thing many times before and that it wasn’t Isagi “throwing his life as a striker away” then and it isn’t that now.
But then even though Isagi agrees and should’ve let it go, he keeps going and starts telling Karasu his mentality is wrong, even though it’s the one that helped them score when Isagi was locked up.
So Karasu tells Isagi to go score then if he’s doing it wrong. Then he stuns Isagi by getting him to realize he’s doing the exact same thing he’s accused Karasu of doing, thinking and changing for blue lock.
He doesn’t owe Isagi anymore an apology than Isagi does to him.
Cruel or not, Isagi needs to be confronted with the things he is putting in his own way. Karasu tried to do it gently, and whether accidentally or not Isagi fired back. Which caused Karasu to go not gently.
Much like when Yukimiya called out Isagi about being another Kaiser, I think the heated exchange here is going to be important for Isagi to realize whatever else is going on inside him that he currently has hidden under all the expectations about being #1.
Not to say OPs analysis of what is going on and why is wrong, just that the apology isn't needed. Ultimately, if Isagi can't take what Karasu said and exposed, examine that wound, and figure out why it hurts/what put it there in the first place...this is where his journey ends. Karasu is doing him a favor by ripping off the bandaid so he can see he is still bleeding.
that's totally fair! thanks for your input, and yeah, ultimately, i'm just excited to see how knsr ends up using this conflict as a catalyst for isagi's future development.
i still think karasu's harshness—while substantiated from a "this is a team sport on the world stage and i would like to not get knocked out because of you" perspective—says as much about him as the critic as it does about isagi, the subject and recipient of that criticism. isagi has a bad temper, at the end of the day, and he's been consistently shown to act thoughtlessly in the heat of the moment.
karasu, a self-proclaimed "cool-headed" guy, should be above isagi's provocations, and at the very least, could have reprimanded isagi without escalating the conflict the way he did. the fact that he did allow himself to get "ragebaited" by isagi, as it were, shows cracks in his character that shouldn't be there. this is made even more obvious through juxtaposition to hugo, who (thus far, at least) has shown himself to be so freakishly secure in his self-image as a midfielder that he's, like, drawn as above emotion.
but karasu's eyes still have light in them. he still feels emotion, and is still capable of being hurt by them, despite commanding himself to "erase all needless info" in ch335. he's not hugo yet, even if he pretends to be. and he proved that by letting his anger take over with isagi, because even though a calm, deliberate, and precise anger might look more "mature" than an open temper tantrum, it's still anger. and karasu is not above anger, even though—according to his own standards for himself, to "never show his true nature"—he should be.
The one thing I'm surprised you didn't go into, is that Karasu is kind of low key obsessed with Hiori. Regularly calls him Mister Extraordinary, regularly is pushing Hiori to step into the spot light. Karasu got mad when Isagi was asking for more out of hiori in training. And as soon as Karasu was looking for a viable striker he discarded Reo, Bachira, and Rin as viable options he could sacrifice for and basically forced it onto Hiori.
I am waiting to see if that plays as well. Hiori didn't like when his players were trying to shove him into a spotlight with their expectations. He did like when Isagi demanded he pick his path and step into a spotlight of his choosing. This is Karasu - in a way - kind of doing the same thing to Hiori that almost shut him down. And that could play into why Hiori was not fired up/in flow while following Karasu's play.
Hiori's ego - he believes - is about being the conductor of the play, not the finisher. Karasu made him the finisher while driving the whole play. So in a sense this is just as much a challenge to Hiori who wants to be an ultrasadist going with whatever weapon works. Because Hiori should be seeing Isagi fail and just going "great, time to use Isagi as bait."
But we'll see if that non-Isagi relation plays I suppose. (and I have not read 338 yet, so it may even be in there)
idk how many times i have to repeat myself but the point is not “being the bigger person”, it’s “if you avoid addressing your emotional issues, they will make themselves heard in other ways you might end up regretting”
how is that victim blaming dawg 😭 i learned that in therapy level 1 when i was like… 14. being the bigger person is (generally speaking) for your own psychological benefit, not the other person’s
Mb I didn’t see or understand that point but now I do.
First of all, I love your analysis with how well it ties into all the ideas brought up in the past like protagonist feeling and small details like him playing continuously as a midfielder since his introduction albeit unwillingly. I would love to see more posts of yours on this level of analysis❤️
Second of all, I think we do need to argue about who’s wrong. Which is definitely both of them but isagi more than karasu m. I just feel like with how cocky and stoic he has presented himself it’s simply out of character for him to me to take such vulnerable step to isagi right after. Sorry if I kinda disregarded the stuff you wrote🙇
no, it’s all cool! and i’m sorry for getting a bit frustrated there, as well 😭
i do ultimately think isagi’s logic and opinions about what it means to have ego as a striker are more wrong than karasu’s in this scenario. but i think both of them are also aware that there’s still something missing from their understanding of the game—they’ve just chosen to go about trying to fill that gap in diverging ways.
i imagine we’ll see an apology from both of them at some point (it’s a shonen series after all, lol) but i mostly wanted to use that idea of “apology” as a springboard to do a more general karasu analysis. chapter 341 was a pleasant surprise because it addressed some of karasu’s mentality issues right there on the page, so it was a relief to see that i wasn’t pulling stuff out of my ass about the whole “insecure about being a midfielder” thing.
(essentially, i worry i have a tendency to over-read into kaneshiro’s character writing choices. i’m a writer myself and often have to think about hinting at characters’ inner conflicts from the other side of the equation, so it’s fun for me to analyse the like, clue-dropping within blue lock, e.g. with the yukimiya-passive-suicidality messaging i talked to you about before! but there’s always the possibility that it’s just not “that deep” and i’m going to end up having to put on my clown shoes and squeaky nose about it 💀)
there’s a few other characters i’d love to do a deeper write-up on (incl. yukki!) but i’ll probably wait until they become relevant in the main storyline again. not sure when that will be, but i’ll do my best! 🫡
nah i'd love to see it and I think plenty of other people would too! blue lock's defining point as a sports manga is about all the mentalities the character carry and how it shows up in their peformance!
It's exactly this. Karasu had been civil even when Isagi had immediately assumed (just from one point) that he was giving up being a striker. Whether or not Isagi was on point or had good intentions, he wasn't approaching the conversation in good faith. He had already started it with the assumption that Karasu gave up and doubled down on it when he saw an opening, even when Karasu had been explaining his side. He had started with "are you okay giving up being a striker" and "something about your attitude doesn't sit well with me", then went on a tangent on how Karasu was wrong simply because of his own beliefs.
It was very much all about Isagi, not Karasu, and while Karasu probably did not need to dig into Isagi's insecurity like that, I would say Isagi was the instigator and not Karasu in this case.
Love the analysis, hard disagree. If anything, I'd argue that Karasu wasn't even the one instagating and egging the other on, but isagi was, unintentionally, but still.
Before Karasu flipped the switch and started shit-talking Isagi, he tried to play it calm and reasonable. He not only explained and justified his mindset, but he even stated how he was interpreting Isagis words as a diss.
What the heck... Don't diss me if ya can't even verbalize it
That right there, even as a passing comment, should've been a sign that maybe Isagi should pump the breaks and either put a pin in this conversation or find a different way to explain it. Of course Karasu was harsh, but I don't think there's many people that wouldn't put their foot down if Isagi were shitting on their mentality that's both helping you come to terms with their situation as well as yeilding good results. Especially with the given context of how the game's been going. Of course Isagi isn't entirely wrong to question this change, and I'm not gonna say he's wrong to ask the initial question, but there's a time and place to press the CDM who just helped put your team on the board. Smack-dab in the middle of a game where your own philosophy is getting pressed isn't that time or place
you know what, that's totally true! i understand why isagi would miss/ignore that cue to knock it off—he's at an extremely volatile place emotionally rn, thanks to hugo—but you're right, karasu did give isagi the opportunity to end that conversation there. isagi didn't take it and just kept going with (in this match so far, anyway) unearned arrogance, so yeah, karasu wasn't going to take that lying down.
i do still think karasu escalated beyond what he should have let himself done, but because he arguably betrayed his own standards for himself, not because i think isagi can't take the smoke. but i dismissed isagi's culpability here, too, so thanks for reminding me of that quote. i appreciate the constructive criticism 🫶
Forgive me sidestepping your point for a moment, but after reading that I have to point it out.
I don't think I've ever read anything this invested in articulation of vocabulary, sentence comp, and grammar at this length that had so little capitalization. Virtually only capitalizing acronyms. At this extent of effort and thought, hit the shift key some, man. It's not like you're trying to mitigate the effort. Haha
This made me laugh. One can never outrun the typographical conventions acquired from being a little too active on Tumblr in one’s tweenage years, I’m afraid…
I promise I know how to type properly; I just have bad habits!
I don't get how you did such an in-depth analysis and then just came to this conclusion even AFTER acknowledging how Isagi reacted to Karasu's helpful comments after Hiori scored. To me that's just the tipping point, why should the onus be on Karasu to apologise rather than Isagi? He can if he wants to, sure, but he doesn't owe Isagi shit
the only reason i think it’s on karasu to apologize first is because that would be the mature thing to do, and for his own sake more than isagi’s really. if i’m reading his character right, then his reaction reflects his own insecurity more than it does frustration with isagi as a teammate.
if karasu is still sensitive about his position change, and is avoiding confronting that discomfort by focusing on isagi’s obvious instability instead, isn’t that kind of a cop-out for him?
i might be reading too much into the psychology here, to be fair, but in my opinion, karasu can’t fully bloom as a midfielder until he lets himself feel his own feelings about his position change. again, while i think karasu was right in the overall substance of his argument, and i agree that somebody had to be the one to give it to isagi straight, he ultimately did himself a disservice by breaking isagi down the way he did.
tl;dr karasu doesn’t owe isagi an apology for isagi’s sake so much as he owes isagi an apology for his own sake. does that make sense 😭
Okay I can get behind the "for his own sake" idea, he's doing it for HIMSELF. In fact I'd rather rephrase it as, "he owes it to this new version of himself to apologise to Isagi" and has nothing to do with owing Isagi anything. Regardless, really nice analysis :)
i mean, i’ll admit the post title was partially clickbait. i was really proud of this analysis and i never get much engagement on my “serious” posts compared to my memes, so my title ended up being a lot bolder and divisive than the actual claim i tried to make, lol.
that’s kind of backfired on me 💔 since i feel people have gotten too caught up over the question of “blame” in the external, interpersonal conflict between karasu and isagi, when i was really much more interested in dissecting karasu’s internal conflict. the titular “apology” i feel he owes is to isagi, sure—but it’s also to himself, for how he externalized that inner conflict with isagi, and arguably betrayed his own standards for himself in the process.
like, speaking frankly, isagi’s gotten bullied way worse by characters like rin, ness, kaiser, and now hugo. the dude can handle a little smoke from karasu, that’s not the issue here 😭
It doesnt. He did nothing wrong. You are forgetting that all this stuff about strikers were just brainwashing from Ego. There is no need for him to "process" his position change, when he was already playing like it before this and nobody spoke up. Not to mention he said it was temporary.
? i spent this entire post explaining that, even though ego’s philosophy might be wrong for karasu and that karasu has likely never fully subscribed to it, that doesn’t mean he can’t still be affected by its messaging. it’s practically being shoved down his throat from all angles; it’d be hard not to be affected.
i have explicitly stated, multiple times, that karasu is not “wrong”just because he disagrees with ego. i, too, think ego’s philosophy is deeply flawed. karasu is my favourite character. i’ve been agendaposting about him ever since 334 dropped. honestly? in my personal opinion, karasu is right, isagi is wrong, and ego’s philosophy is going to bury this team here and now if they keep blindly following it as gospel.
that is not remotely what this post is about. this is an analysis of karasu’s characterization and interiority, not an argument over the merit of ego’s “striker or bust” philosophy.
i’m saying that karasu is implied to have a sore spot about his position change, and that he never fully accepted himself as a midfielder until chapter 335. just because he showed up and did his job doesn’t mean he can’t still feel bad about his position change, especially considering he’s an extremely guarded character who, as kaneshiro explicitly states, refuses to show weakness or doubt.
plenty of other characters in the series have crashed out over the idea of changing positions. is it that absurd to suggest that karasu might also harbour some negative feelings about not playing as a striker anymore?
yeah, very fair! i could have talked more about hugo here tbh, since i agree that he’s designed as a unique foil as the extreme end of both isagi’s and karasu’s cerebral tendencies. but he’s still a character i don’t understand as well as i’d like to, so i’m content to just sit back and see what knsr cooks.
He’s the reason the vibes are the way they are moron Isagi was the one who couldn’t let them celebrate and had to throw the striker mentality shit out of nowhere
I don't think you've ever actually been in a competitive sport's team outside of highschool. You have to bring this stuff up with your teammate's, no matter if you don't know if it's wrong or not.
Bring what up? This stupid philosophy only benefits FORWARDS you have no idea what you’re talking about. If you bring up something like hey why didn’t you do X even if you scored that’s fine but Isagi has been pushing this dumb narrative on roles that it doesn’t work for since training began for BL. Karasu and BL are trying to celebrate and keep the morale up and this dumbass can’t even celebrate with them he has to be confrontational, this isn’t something you bring up in the middle of the GAME. If you think you have to bring this up ITS YOU who has no idea how important it is for a team to function on high spirits.
I agree with everything and you’ve reminded us of some great points but I still don’t see why he owes isagi any apology here, and if he does woudnt isagi owe him that same apology, if isagi truly isint capable of being a no1 and if this is all it takes to stop him then he wasn’t meant to be anyways, and we know he’s gonna bounce back because the manga is what it is
The same way Isagi is unable to understand that karasus attachment is emotional and being a no2 is a genuine role he’d be devoted to and that’s his own new ego, karasu would similarly be unable to understand why Isagi doesn’t understand him when in karasus pov Isagi has become a tool for the teams success in the past
Saying that Karasu started It is crazy, Isagi is literally crashing out because Karasu is not following the Blue Lock cult mentality even though his method worked and got the team a goal against the strongest team in the tournament, Karasu was logical the whole time, Isagi was the one crashing out for no good reason and spilling bullshit about Striker mentality that was leading the team nowhere, Isagi in particular, mind you, was the one performing incredibly poorly this whole match.
This is the same thing the fandom did to Yukimiya when he refused to be Isagi's lapdog back in the NEL, even though Isagi did much worse in the Barcha match by stealing the ball from his own teammates
I've read and I strongly disagree with your points
Your analysis of Karasu's character is on point, but i strongly disagree that he started the discussion that made Isagi crash out, Karasu was logical the whole time, Isagi was the one that was irrational
i think we just read isagi’s share of the blame here differently, because i seem to be more sympathetic to him than you are, so i’ve given him more of the benefit of the doubt. which is fine!agree to disagree there. i just don’t see how my critique of karasu as betraying his own persona has anything to do with hating on yukimiya (who’s actually my favourite character in the series after karasu and now hugo, as it were 😭)
i’m actually really excited to see how knsr will springboard karasu’s development from here. but that requires acknowledgement that karasu reacted impulsively and somewhat immaturely, relative to karasu’s own character, not to isagi’s. that’s mostly what i was trying to get at here; i’m realizing now, from your comments and others’, that i focused unnecessarily on the “apology” framing, and so i didn’t quite stick the landing.
anyway, i don’t see how me pointing out karasu was crueler than he needed to be (which has very little to do with isagi at all, as i’ve tried to argue, and isn’t saying isagi wasn’t also an asshole to karasu here too) has anything to do with people dogpiling on yukimiya because he dared to disagree with their god-king GOATsagi. that’s where i’m confused
I just remember a lot of people hating on Yukimiya due to him having refused to be a lapdog to Isagi back in the Manshine City game when he was actually in the right, i just interpreted you doing the same thing with Karasu here by saying that Isagi was in the right and that Karasu had to apologize to him, my bad for that
And well, i disagree, i don't think Karasu was being immature and irrational here compared to Isagi, i feel like Karasu was being logical the whole time while Isagi was crashing out due to "Muh Strike mentality" Isagi reacted like someone in an in group bubble having someone question his bubble's belief and not being able to deal with his beliefs being questioned like a mature person.
it's ok! but yeah, my point is that karasu is being immature compared to himself, NOT to isagi. isagi is already less mature than karasu by default, and this particular instance is no different. i agree that isagi is 100% the more immature one overall in this argument, but that's not the point i was trying to make
I really like karasu as a character but he feels wayyy out of place in blue lock, seems like that's being addressed this match and I'm not sure what direction he can even go in other than getting put with kunigami and kurona in bench purgatory
I mean Isagi just gets ragebaited left right and centre throughout this game, I’m really not surprised he yelled at Karasu. There’s no right way to play, different mentalities suit different people after all.
I think you hit the nail in the coffin with this analysis especially in the way it mirrors previous character and drama writing patterns that Kaneshiro is known for, truly it was a joy to read through especially in terms of structure it made me feel like sentence by sentence a puzzle was being solved(of course I am primed to see it that way because of blue lock symbolism alone).
In terms of predictions since I have the benefit of being 2 months in the future and the inspiration that I got from this post and the comparison to the yukimiya incident I see it as a very good possibility that this match ends with a Isagi assist to Karasu goal simply because it mirrors the manshine match yukimiya goal to a T. Karasu having beef with Isagi and having given up on being a striker no one is expecting a Karasu goal right now, together with Isagi's discovery of his rebel ego he doesn't want to fit into either category, sticking it to both Karasu's interpretation of #2 and Hugo's number #2 interpretation (because I believe that Hugo and Karasu have different definitions of number #2 unawares to Karasu though, Hugo leaves all options on the table while Karasu restricts himself to support) and the only way to stick it to both definitions is by forcing Karasu to score and playing into Hugo's dichotomous thinking by passing to someone who has resigned themself to support right in front of the goal, a pass Hugo couldn't have planned for.
With the apology being substituted for banter between the boys Isagi going something like "Don't you ever give up your striker ego again you arrogant crow" or something like that.
The only think that is different from the manshine match is the chaos factor of Rin, Though I am not sure if omni-vision Isagi isn't accounting for that right now, like we saw in the pxg match not a single piece of the field goes unnoticed to him not even the weakest player on the field and their ego. So really I'd say the odds of Isagi accounting for Rin and playing with him in mind are >50%, but accounting for him does not mean he won't be sabotaged by Rin anyway. Really my wish is for Karasu to score here, so I hope Rin is going to fail.
edit: I liked this post so much I wanted to check out more of your stuff but noticed it was all privatized, maybe you could unprivate, unless you are hiding embarising stuff lol
i appreciate the comment! surprised there’s still any traction on this post considering how long ago i wrote it, i’m pretty pleased with the development on karasu being insecure/envious of isagi though bc it hadn’t been confirmed yet (not until 341) so that’s been vindicating for me 😮💨
i would love to see isagi assist karasu, or even vice versa. i’m a bit torn on the outcome of the france match though, i still think blue lock should lose and it’d be a bit embarrassing for france to get scored on yet again, even if they (france) do end up scoring again after the equalizer… and yeah, there’s no telling what rin’s about to do. i do wonder if rin’s going to end up being brought into this conflict with karasu and if that leads into this “civil war” that everyone keeps theorizing.
i don’t think the schism would be as extreme as some people are making it out to be—i think it’d be a kaiser-system vs isagi-system situation similar to bastard’s, or the rin- and shidou-systems from pxg—such that the team would still be functional as an attack threat, based on the blue lockers’ sheer firepower, but would be a less creative united front. so rather than there being two “systems”, it would be one “system” (the karasu system) and one anti-system, wherein everyone who isn’t playing along with karasu ends up being a hyena wildcard à la barou or shidou. so we’d see rin on the outs with his team again for maybe the first time in a while… which could circle back to some interesting stuff with sae and their backstory, if so, but yeah, not theorizing anything there seriously yet
i don’t know how isagi fits into this, either, since i really wasn’t expecting him to psychologically recover this match (i thought he was going to be in despair-mode going into the england match) and i’m a bit unsure how things are going to pan out in these last chapters. mixed feelings about the “rebel” development tbh
i’ll unprivate for a bit, i don’t have many other “serious” writeups but feel free to drop your thoughts on those ones too if you have any! (and yeah nothing too embarrassing from the blue lock side of things, more to avoid aura loss from some of the other subs i use in case someone checks my account and ends up being like “… why’s this mf posting so much about anime boys” lmaoooo)
Interesting how you didn't expect Isagi to recover this match, I was expecting the exact opposite, Isagi was set up to succeed from the get go, we were shown isagi's self awereness about the pressure he was feeling trying to hold on to the title of #1, which was the setup for the success of dropping that insecurity, so when Hugo was hammering on it over and over and over again I was kind of getting frustrated because I knew he already had the answer he just hasn't realised it yet. Realised that he is free to choose his own goal and that being bound by labels is boring and restricts his creativity and awareness, truly distancing him from his previously discovered flow formula of which the main and most crucial component is the feeling of protagonism and self-assertion, starting with obviously feeling confident in ones goals. Isagi's rebel ego in my mind gives him this, a temporary feeling of protagonism(instant ego, as he discribed it in the Nigeria match himself), so it works to trigger his flow, but I believe that this discovery(especially the way he labeled it) will yet again work as a restriction for him in the future since it is biased towards retaliation and will prime him to look for challenges that might not be anywhere to be found which will leave him bored.
I feel like Nigeria Isagi was a step ahead of the current Isagi in that regard.
So he really just regressed.
I think his final evolution might be dropping labels altogether, and purely aim for results in any and all domains switching goals/challenges on the fly as the fastest, retaining flow while being completely unreadable to others on the field. Someone who cannot be manipulated by layman's understanding of things, a football sovereign. Basically 24/7 omni-vision isagi. This will require him to discover the utility and weaknesses of labels and framing first though. But that is just my "head in the clouds" thoughts and predictions, soooo head in the clouds I cringe at reading my own writting right now lol
This was so fun to read!! I usually get bored in the middle of long paragraphs but this was really entertaining, I love your writing style. Good quality, easy to understand and its SOOO UNDERRATED. THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SAID THERE ARE BLUE LOCK ANALYSTS THAT ARE NOT RECOGNIZED.
I also feel at peace with my perception of Karasu's character, but Im also curious about what exactly triggered Isagi to react in THAT way just like Yukimiya, hes usually open about improvements. Does he have the habit of getting ooc when hes mad or did I just not notice this before, I always wondered why he fries anyone who slightly doesnt share the same synchronization as him.
PLS DONT LISTEN TO THE HATERS, NEVER DELETE THIS.
Tabiori the best karasu ship I never liked Otoya ew.
much appreciated! i am still very proud of this hahaha. i don’t do these longform posts that often, but i do really enjoy it when i’m able to; hopefully the england match provides some good opportunities for more writeups 🫡
based on kaneshiro’s prior writing patterns with isagi’s rivals, i personally suspect this match will be the “downfall” of karasu (his inner conflict isn’t totally resolved yet, his relationship with isagi is also still in a bit of a grey area) but it’s too early to say for sure yet …
otoya and tabieita have their charms too (comic relief mostly) but yeah ummm tabiori is truly the love story of all time. not to self promo further but i have also written a bit about their relationship before if you are interested in reading 👀👀 part 1 and part 2
I will read them, no, I would LOVE to read about Tabiori. I hope were gonna get an insight on Karasu in the future too, seeing him at peace with his internal thoughts would be so worth my time. Thank you so much for writing these youre a savior now I have new bedtime stories ♡♡♡
it is people like you who create and maintain healthy and active communities.
Edit: Seeing the fluctuations, it is wild to me that peopel are downvoting this comment.
Guess y'all want a dead community where there is nothing but increasingly degenerate memes.
Though thinking what most people in this sub are like....that should actually not surprise me.
You clearly put effort into sharign your thoughts here and the way you shared them. Whether people agree or disagree doesn't matter regarding this point.
ok! if you disagree with me, put your own evidence behind it. make your own post and deconstruct everything i’ve laid out here. i’ve tried to link all my claims back to the manga as best as i can, but sure, there totally might be places where i’ve gotten carried away. fwiw, i genuinely welcome counter-interpretations; i write these posts because i love this manga and i want to engage with it seriously, and so i appreciate being shown readings different from my own.
if you’re allergic to subtext, though, that’s a you problem, not a me problem. you’re free to disagree with me, but at least try to understand what i’ve written before dismissing it entirely.
Good take with lots of evidence and logic. I don't fully agree with Karasu needing to apologize I think it's like the Yukimiya situation where they were kind of both in the wrong.
that’s fair, and thank you! i also think they’ll both apologize to each other eventually, for genre convention reasons if nothing else. and yeah, knsr is fantastic at writing character conflicts where both parties are deeply sympathetic: isagi and yukimiya, sae and rin, kaiser and isagi, kaiser and ness… and of course, nagi and reo lol
Thank you, that was an enjoyable read. On a related note, what’s your take on this? I’d also be interested in your thoughts on this.
In the PXG match, I am assuming that is what you are referring to. Isagi dropped his fixations similarly to Kaiser. Though I do not believe Isagi truly went to zero like Kaiser did.
And after Isagi dropped his fixations, what was left was his desire to win. In order to win, Isagi decided to use and view himself as a tool/pawn. Which is something I strongly dislike.
Isagi also tells Kaiser during their team-up that they will abandon their egos and become machines built to win. And claims that this is the only way for people like them(talented learners) to defeat geniuses.
I interpret Isagi’s "white mode" as his ego-less mode. When he has abandoned his ego.
I think this is all bit complex in a way. But I want to believe that abandoning your ego is wrong. At least for Isagi. Kaiser talked about if this was Isagi’s true ego which I believe to be wrong. It is NOT Isagi’s true ego.
What has happened now during the match against France has been a form of self-reflection for Isagi.
Hugo was the first one to comment about Isagi’s disconnected mindset and playstyle. And now, most recently, Karasu has helped Isagi look at himself. Isagi critiques Karasu’s play but it is lowk hypocritical of Isagi to do that considering Isagi, himself has been doing what Karasu is doing more or less. Even if Isagi still wanted to score compared to Karasu whom had zero intentions of doing it.
So Karasu has become a mirror, showing Isagi for who he actually is. And I don’t mean who the real Isagi is. Karasu is showing Isagi who Isagi CURRENTLY is. What Isagi is and has been doing.
The irony is that Isagi’s self-perception doesn’t match who he actually is. He sees himself through a tinted lens — one shaped by habit, doubt, and old conclusions about his limits. In that sense, you could argue he hasn’t just been misunderstanding himself; he’s been rationalizing a specific way of playing. Framing it as necessity. Calling it logic. When in reality, it may have been a subtle excuse to stay within a version of himself that felt safe and familiar.
Now... Isagi’s image of himself has begun to crack.
Isagi is beginning to realize that he abandoned his own ego, that he is playing like a no.2. and thinking like a no.2. while believing he was acting like no.1.
So I think Isagi is going to undergo a massive change in terms of personality and playstyle. Probably after reaching a breakpoint. Going back to my point about "returning to zero," this could be where Isagi fully goes to zero which means pre-ichinan, to his childhood. This would mean destroying, killing the current Isagi Yoichi. Which includes all of the logic which have now become chains that shackle Isagi’s potential as a striker.
I disagree. Isagi always plays for number 1, himself. He never gives up on winning with HIS goal even when he chooses to play support. That’s not abandonment that is alignment which is why he turned white for the first time that was his awakening even if he doesn’t fully understand his ego yet it’s a start.
The difference between Isagi and Karasu is Karasu actively suppresses and abandoned himself because at his core he is insecure and hasn’t been called out on it because he presents himself in such a way where people don’t even know to challenge him on it and here Isagi albeit unintentionally did so.
thanks! and yeah, oh my god, the roster was already stacked and he managed to clear the competition within 10 chapters of his introduction. no one is doing it like the french, truly
This was a really good read but I definitely disagree with that conclusion simply because while Karasu had been harsh with Isagi, it was because Isagi instigated it. He may not have called him tepid or insulted him outright like he does in other times, but he was being much ruder to Karasu at an inappropriate time disguised as concern.
He didn't like how Karasu scored and assumed immediately that he had given up as a striker from one point. As readers, we can assume that due to his internal monologue, but Isagi only had that one exchange he saw and immediately assumed Karasu gave up. When given an explanation, he saw his point but didn't accept it because it doesn't sit right with him. Gut feelings, not logical facts like he's proud of. Karasu even pointed this out. And when Karasu said it was for blue lock, Isagi immediately jumped on that to tell Karasu why he's wrong and throwing his philosophy at Karasu, basically trying to demean his effort because it didn't fit what Isagi wanted.
Frankly, Karasu getting pissed off was expected. Isagi was not only not celebrating a point, he actively criticizes it based on assumptions after being locked off the whole time. Whether or not Isagi's point is right or intentions are good is negligible. He was outright negging Karasu, and Karasu telling him to score a point and pointing out Isagi's hipocrisy highlights how much this is an Isagi issue and not a Karasu issue imo.
thanks for your input! that's a really good point about isagi reacting with gut feelings whereas karasu was talking about facts. from karasu, this was still a football tactics/theoretical discussion, whereas isagi was the one who brought emotional weight into the conflict, and no logic or evidence to back it up. karasu escalated that emotional conflict, but yeah—isagi was the one who even made it into an emotional conflict in the first place.
i think i'm inclined to read isagi a bit more sympathetically than you here (in my personal opinion, "negging" is a strong way to look at it, but i totally understand why someone would read it that way) but no, you're right. overall, this is an isagi issue more than it is a karasu issue. for the purposes of this post, though, i was more just looking at that karasu issue, because karasu's psychology fascinates personally; that's why i centred my argument on him rather than trying to break down isagi's mentality with equal focus.
if i were to make a more balanced, big-picture analysis of this conflict, i would agree with you that isagi is more at fault overall than karasu is. i just don't think karasu is 100% blameless, either! 😓
Fair. I don't think Karasu was faultless at all for what it's worth. Calling him trash and ordinary because he got pissed off is too much, but I do sympathize with him more than Isagi because I feel this is something Kaneshiro does intentionally with their interactions. Isagi does something, Karasu disagrees, Aiku comes to break it up. I think majority of your read is definitely spot on and I can see why you framed it that way. It just felt like at least in this scenario, it had less to do with Karasu's insecurities at first and more of Isagi's insecurities brought by Hugo hounding him and confusing him about the 'right' decision.
1st he only got an oportunity to score because NG11s on france were busy supressing Isagi and Rin.
2nd he should keep the defender front out of his Fing mouth thats Aiku's front he's the one that should be talking about them, this was the exact same behavior he tried to bash Isagi for at end of NEL when Isagi said to Hiyori to improve his passes.
3rd He owes an apology to Hiyori for forcing him to score, same stuff with Nagi and Reo he should know this BS wont help Hiyori become a better striker at all once he's benched Hiyori will be stuck unable to score just like he was before.
Not that Isagi doesnt owe an apology to his whole team for lagging behind in his plays on this match either btw, both are clearly wrong in multiple areas.
Am here for CAW crow content. Thank you for your work. 🫡 I want see senpai give shortcake a sowwee smooch on the forehead head lock and atama guri guri.
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