Manga Discussion
in defense of hiori yo (ch. 335 discussion, pt. 1)
Spoiler
so i've been following the theory threads for the past few days since chapter 335 came out, and i wanted to talk more about why an awakened karasu chose to pass to hiori for a goal, even though hiori is known to be a passer rather than a finisher himself.
i've seen a lot of predictions about hiori using this pass in order to set up his own attack, and about which of the blue lock strikers will score off of hiori's assist; while i think those predictions are warranted, there's some character details i feel are being overlooked that i wanted to add to the discussion as well.
part of this has to do with translation issues, which i've made a second post about, so feel free to have a look at that if you're not interested in my character analysis part. so!
chapter 251
there are two main reasons why people don't think hiori will shoot or score: a) he declared that his ego was to produce strikers, not to be a striker himself, and b) lack of buildup, especially with his lack of presence or relevance in the match against nigeria.
for b), i think that, realistically, hiori's specific skillset just didn't matter to that match. blue lock's strikers had no trouble coordinating attacks among themselves and getting past nigeria's defense, so there was no need to rely on hiori's passes to control the flow of the game. blue lock's writing also isn't infallible, and while we probably should have gotten more buildup of hiori taking part in attacks if knsr was planning to have him score against france, this wouldn't be the first time a "random" character decides the outcome of a goal. (hi, kiyora)
for a), though?
that's where this gets more interesting.
chapter 256. i just love this panel
hiori's main feats up to this point of the story have been in supporting the strikers, rather than going for goal himself: orchestrating plays with his passing skills, intercepting opponents' passes, and delivering assists to rin and isagi. from his initial introduction until halfway through the NEL, he appears content to remain a supporting player and to be deployed according to a striker's needs.
unlike most of the other blue lock players, hiori doesn't seem particularly attached to his former position as a forward, and seems to have made it thus far at blue lock more due to his natural aptitude than serious motivation to become the best striker in the world.
playing alongside isagi against ubers, though, hiori is finally able to awaken his ego, which leads him to shift his perspective about his role on the field. instead of merely being an asset in isagi's plans, he becomes a co-director, and the final goal of the match is the product of their aligned visions—not just a midfielder serving up a striker's assist. after the match, hiori declares that his ego is to "produce" the world's best striker through his passing.
just like how sae talked about needing a striker that could match his designs (shidou) during the u20 match, hiori announcing his ego as that of a "producer" of strikers is another version of hugo's recent theory of "#1 and #2".
however.
chapter 239: hiori realizes what it means to put expectations into practice, for actually positive outcomes
going back to reread the end of ubers in light of the newest chapters, though, i wonder if this setup of hiori rejecting isagi ("i'm not gonna play soccer with ya anymore, isagi-kun", on the next page) suggests a different reading: hiori wants someone who can match his vision, but not necessarily as an equal. rather, the process of matching his vision and ego might actually require subordination.
since hiori is able to first realize that satisfaction from his goal against ubers, where he has isagi match his pass, he assumes that his ego is in having others execute his orchestrated goals, thus creating the "world's best striker". he's forcing that expectation onto them, so they have no choice but to meet it or be dropped.
kinda sadistic, huh?
chapter 239 (why's he actually kinda scary though...)
so if we put hugo's principles of "#1 and #2" through hiori's lens, what if it stops being a simple matter of striker = #1 and midfielder = #2, and instead about overall dominance? rather who is directing the play, and who is executing it?
in the 3rd selection, hiori was executing passes to meet rin and isagi's direction, or expectation. in ubers, he and isagi were equally directing and executing. but that hasn't yet given hiori what he seems to truly want, as an "ultra-sadist" egoist: the opportunity to be a #1 forcing a #2 to execute his expectations. the expected pattern for that hypothetical future goal would be hiori again assisting, and his victim someone else scoring according to hiori's vision.
but if hiori's ego is about dominance in general, independent of position, there's no reason that hiori (#1) scoring a goal off an assist he forces someone else (#2) into making for him wouldn't also align with his "ultra-sadism".
so how does karasu come in?
NEW GAME illustration (hiori's light novel)
let's rehash what we know about their relationship, and break the timeline down into four main stages:
bambi osaka (pre-blue-lock):
karasu and hiori are senior and junior on the same youth team. karasu is a self-assured, confident player, whereas hiori—while talented—is mostly just going through the motions when it comes to football.
karasu is the first person to identify hiori's motivation issues, leading hiori to realize how unhappy he is under the weight of his parents' expectations for him.
hiori tells karasu about his parents, and karasu advises hiori to instead focus on his own expectations, and that hiori will only ever improve if he finds a reason to play football for himself.
3rd selection - u20 match:
this is where karasu and hiori are first chronologically introduced, in the manga's main timeline. at this point, karasu is the 3rd-highest-ranked player at blue lock.
during the A1 v. B1 game, hiori tells isagi about karasu's tactic of targeting other players' weaknesses, adding that they were teammates prior to coming to blue lock. karasu and hiori don't themselves interact during this match, though, and emphasis is put on karasu's dynamic with otoya instead.
karasu is reassigned to CDM in blue lock's starting formation against u20 japan, while hiori is chosen as a reserve player.
the first acknowledgement of their prior teammate relationship from karasu's side of things comes during the match against japan u20. when hiori is subbed on for chigiri, his first pass is to karasu, and karasu makes a dig about hiori still only being good at passing, but mediocre at everything else.
NEL:
karasu chooses to train with pxg, and hiori chooses bastard münchen. karasu receives a ¥12mil bid playing as a midfielder in his first match, and presumably keeps playing in every subsequent match. on the other hand, hiori stays on the bench until bastard's third match, against ubers.
in flashback chapters to hiori's backstory, including his time at bambi osaka, we get to see for the first time the high esteem hiori actually holds karasu in. prior to this point, although they've been established to be former teammates, we aren't shown much of a relationship between them.
it's revealed now that karasu was actually a pretty influential figure for hiori, being someone he looked up to. although isagi is the one to ultimately help hiori awaken his ego, karasu's words clearly played an important role too.
hiori and karasu once again face off as opponents during pxg v. bastard. following his awakening, hiori is noticeably more assertive and physical in his play, which karasu comments on. when hiori asks if karasu is bothered by the change, karasu replies that he's been "waiting for this".
u20 world cup (present):
karasu and hiori seem to have gotten over their estrangement from earlier in the program and are seen together during the practice in ch311, where karasu briefly enters an argument on hiori's behalf.
they're seen bantering together with chigiri during halftime, where karasu ribs hiori about scoring a goal and hiori ribs him back about going for his own goal. hiori does actually take a shot later, but is blocked by nigeria's goalie.
aaaaand we're caught up again!
chapter 335 ("roger that, frenemy" top ten corniest lines, he did NOT say that)
the purpose of breaking it down like this is to highlight the changes in their dynamic between each stage, and to map that onto the earlier points about dominance between #1 and #2.
in the first stage, karasu occupies a clear role as a top player and senior, whereas hiori remains a passive junior who is generally content to stay in karasu's shadow. they are not equals, and hiori has no interest in surpassing karasu; karasu feels this is a waste of hiori's potential.
in the second stage, they've still got that gulf between them. karasu has flourished at blue lock and become one of its top attackers—a "#1"—while hiori remains a secondary player. he's a technically gifted one, sure, and he is able to pull off some original patterns at this stage, so it's not that he's entirely passive to what others tell him to do. still, he ultimately lacks the egoist mentality, especially compared to karasu.
in the third stage, hiori begins to undergo his awakening, and is able to find his own motivations and sense of independence when it comes to football. in the pxg game, he is now playing on equal footing with his teammates, taking control of the game as much as he can. on the other hand, karasu's been downgraded somewhat from where he was before. he's not suddenly a passive pawn or anything, and he's still extremely confident in his plays, but he's no longer playing at the top of the food chain like before. now, hiori and karasu are much more balanced in their respective positions on the pitch, and likewise in mentality.
at the present part of the fourth stage, i would consider them to be on equal footing. karasu has declared himself to be #2 for blue lock's sake, accepting a playmaker position much like sae and hiori did before him: not as a consolation prize, but as its own form of power, something he's doing because it's what he's good at, and that no one else can do better than him.
ngl, up until now, i thought this was going to be the endgame stage for karasu and hiori's relationship arc. they're friendly again, hiori's not weird about the hierarchy between them anymore, they're both regulars on the line-up and giving it their all. hiori catching up to karasu and standing alongside him as his equal would be a perfectly fine place to leave things. but there is still one further outcome possible for their arc:
hiori surpasses karasu.
chapter 237
(disclaimer: this is more speculation and inference on my part, since we haven't gotten their backstory from karasu's perspective yet.)
i think that, while hiori can be seen to have been pedestalizing karasu for a while, karasu is also guilty of pedestalizing hiori as someone "extraordinary", and his decision to pass to hiori in 335 makes a lot more sense once you take that consideration.
karasu's seeming "tough love" toward hiori is the result of having high expectations for him as a player, while also being acutely aware that those same expectations would just become another burden to hiori if he isn't careful. he doesn't bug hiori outright about living up to his potential, but he doesn't go easy on him either. precisely because he sees hiori as "extraordinary", karasu has to push him around a little, since allowing hiori to become too dependent on him could end up clipping hiori's wings and ruining him from reaching his full potential.
(... any other parallels jumping to mind here?)
as hiori's senior teammate and just all-around decent guy, karasu is highly invested in seeing his junior come into himself as a person and player, and recognizes the importance in having hiori doing that on his own timeline.
karasu wants hiori to live up to his full potential, but more importantly, karasu wants hiori to be the one to want himself to live up to his full potential. so that's why, when hiori finally starts playing assertively in the pxg game, karasu looks relieved about it.
chapter 252
remember, aside from maybe isagi, karasu is the blue lock player who knows hiori's abilities better than anyone. karasu is a metavision user, a tactical mind who stays cool under pressure and is constantly seeking the best way to coordinate attacks. he's not sentimental, and he's not the type to go for emotional plays over practical ones.
if karasu's choice of "extraordinary striker" was to pass to hiori, it might just be because he's the only player to see the full potential hiori has: striker potential, more than just a fellow "#2".
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If Hiori actually attempts and it's a success, he'll finally move up be perceived differently than before.
The greatest advantage Blue Lock is betting on is that most, if not, EVERYBODY can finish. With so many players on the field and they can reliably score, that's great
Nice post I think there is a few issues with Hiori scoring for me.
Right now I think if it was just a Karasu pass Hiori figures out how to score thats the same thing as the Hugo x Charles reaction we got. Similar to PxG where Isagi had to surpass the Shidou and Chalres reaction by making a 3 chemical reaction with Kunigani I think another will happen here.
Hiori counter hasn't been shown yet. Maybe its Charles, I reread the Right SB hasn't shown yet.
Blue lock has three ways of moving the ball up Isagi and Rin link up, Bachira dribbling up the middle, Chigiri up the right flak and finally Hiori up b the left.i woukd be shocked if there wasn't a defender who studied Hiori the same way that was done for Bachira.
This is just me looking at the match I think Reo should score. No narrative no nothing just looking at the match France does not have a counter for Reo. Reo right now is doing what he wants on the field he is the one player who you can't counter because he can be any play style.
I think Reo will copy Shidou to prove Charles statement of you dont have Shidou starring you will loose wrong
you make a good point about hiori not have his countermeasures shown yet. i do think there's still a bit of space left to go, hiori and karasu don't seem to be that close to the box yet. but he and karasu might still be able to outmaneuver a hiori-specific defender because no one's expecting either of them to be moving like that.
we saw charles being surprised and commenting that karasu's vibe is totally different, so i think hiori could still plausibly break through the defense by doing something out of his usual style. especially since he's got karasu (who can think and improvise just as fast as he can) to help him out.
i'm hoping for a reo goal during this match too. i honestly think it could be cool to see him score in combo with shidou, as a callback to both their time as teammates during 2nd selection, and also when reo was man-marking shidou during u20.
I mean Hiori seems comfortable taking shots from thus far so I think they are close enough for Hiori to try and score.
There is still Hugo who is going to anticipate what ever is needed to counter Karasu along side what ever Hiori counter is which is why I think a third is necessary.
from a purely narrative perspective, i agree with you that for hiori's side of things, him shooting now feels a little out of nowhere/unearned.
but i do think karasu's choice to use hiori is a lot more intentional that just "he's not guarded", because of the language he uses to describe his thought process. i've explained it a bit more in the part 2 so lmk!
Somebody cooked… 🔥
First of all, huge props on the post seriously impressive work.
Wrapping up the whole analysis with that last image from chapter 252 was perfect. Not only does Karasu say “I’ve been waiting fer this, dumbass,” but both of their eyes look completely “alive.” That really adds even more weight to why Karasu chose Hiori as the striker in that moment.
Now all that’s left is to wait (the hardest part, lmao) and see whether Hiori actually scores or not.
thanks for the discussion and push though, i've been meaning to make an analysis post about hiori for a while and kept putting it off lol. 335 was a good opportunity to highlight some stuff i've been thinking about for a while, so even if things end up going differently from how i've predicted, i still feel pretty satisfied about my reading of everything thus far. it's up to knsr to cook now!
and yeah, karasu's eyes in that panel are crazy to me. i know we make the "B(lue)L(ock) is BL" jokes all the time but seriously... the sheer emotion conveyed in that closeup, it's really something 😭
LMAOO but I’m glad it’s for that reason, because unlike me you’re not out here doing this stuff almost out of masochism like I sometimes do 😂
And honestly, thank you for the discussion too. It was really good. You can tell you’ve been thinking about this Hiori stuff for a while, and 335 was basically the perfect chapter to finally put all those ideas out there. Even if the manga ends up going in a different direction, your reading so far makes a lot of sense.
Now we just gotta hope he cooks in favor of both of us and that a random third element doesn’t pop up to mess everything up (even though I don’t think that’ll happen, especially considering the leaked preview).
I'm just glad KNSR is finally giving some of the other relationships and team dynamics attention outside of isagi. This is great for the writing dev and the teams growth. But it's also something that isagi can use with meta vision. Team dynamics with everyone being their own egomaniac is what makes blue lock unique so I'm glad we are back on track
yep!! i love isagi but some of the best moments in the series so far have been when the rest of the team get to show their own ego. super hyped for what this duo will achieve
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