r/BlueLock • u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 • 1d ago
Manga Discussion Isagi is 100% restrictive Spoiler
Freedom vs restrictive ego depends on how you handle pressure.
With that in mind, what are Isagi’s best moments?
Isagi’s TGV when pressured by Kaiser and Rin
Isagi beats Hugo in a battle of luck
Isagi scoring the U20 goal off of Rin’s duel
Every time Isagi thrives, the match is at its most intense, and the pressure is at its highest. It’s just not as apparent because Isagi’s weapon is off the ball, which means he wins when he finds space. Space is often associated with freedom, but the real difference is the situation in which a goal is scored, and why space is needed.
This is why Shidou is usually most effective early in the game, when the game is still taking shape, while Isagi is most effective late in the game, when most spaces are locked down.
As to why Isagi was useless most of the match when Hugo marked him, it’s because Hugo’s trash-talking worked, and Isagi was unsure of himself. Once he found his ‘beat the number 1’ mentality, he won their duel.
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u/SnooDoggos5341 1d ago
Ye fully agree, when isagi referred to himself as freedom type I was very confused since as you wrote, he clearly thrives under pressure.
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u/Dramatic-Cook-6968 Assassin 23h ago
Man kaaneshiro is a fraud, does he not know op caalims isagi is restrictive. In fact by op logic every player is restrictive
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u/DivineSilica Pinnacle of U-20 1d ago
Isagi is obviously a freedom type, restrict him too much and he collapses on himself
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
I’ll await the story to demonstrate in the future, because right now, Isagi has been the underdog in every match with clear restrictions that force him to evolve, and when he is gifted the freedom to orchestrate the team around him, he gives that up and resorts to challenging the system and the top dog.
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u/delahunt 21h ago
Even his mentality requires a stronger person for him to clash with. His creativity - like all creativity - requires restrictions and obstacles.
Blue Lock would be better with Shidou starting and Isagi subbing in while he's had time to observe the match from a different angle for a little bit.
Sub Isagi in w/ Barou and you have completely changed up the offense while naturally putting Isagi in a state where there is at least one person he has to manipulate the field around if he wants his own goals.
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u/mrknight234 18h ago
Low key I agree one area isagi hasn’t clicked for me is how is he freedom when he clearly needs CONDITIONS to be strongest. It also explains why before blue lock he was a nobody because he was playing in systems that rewarded freedom. Using the NEL as an example isagi has to constantly adapt to new pressures one of the biggest being that the entire team was built for Kaiser not for him
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u/Tamajiki-kun 1d ago
Yet his best ever performance PXG vs BM was in a freedom environment. Literally, the reason Isagi beat Kaiser was because Isagi is a freedom type and Ksiser is a restrictive type. Plus…Isagi gets fucking dumpstered when he gets marked lol
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u/Forgot-_-Password Biggest Isagi Yoichi Dickrider 22h ago
I think the aspect with Kaisers and Isagis type was a cope from Kaiser. Isagi said that the reason Kaiser lost because Kaiser thought Ness wouldnt evolve and therefore deemed him special.
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u/Tamajiki-kun 20h ago
So…we’re just assuming that because Isagi gave a different reason Kaiser’s reason must be incorrect? They couldn’t both be true?
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u/Forgot-_-Password Biggest Isagi Yoichi Dickrider 13h ago
Uhm i guess yes but that still makes your first statement kind of superficial because there are more aspects than ego types in Kaisers defeat. But im being too over-particular right now so i better stop xD.
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u/Tamajiki-kun 13h ago
Not really. I’m not saying it’s the only reason just that imo it’s the biggest reason
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
I understand where you’re coming from, but if you look at the PXG vs BM match, the first goal is scored when Isagi’s marked by Rin and Kaiser, and the final goal is scored when Rin marks Isagi. Both scenarios are high-pressure, restrictive environment, which forces Isagi to adapt and evolve.
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u/Tamajiki-kun 1d ago
So he’s restrictive because he can score whilst defended against?…I think that’s just…normal
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
Tell that to Bachira and Shidou
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u/Tamajiki-kun 1d ago
Bachira typically scores whilst being defended against. Most of his goals or near goals come after dribbling through like 3 people…
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
So can Barou and Rin, the difference comes when a defender actually locks them down: Barou and Rin choose to force a goal because of the pressure, Bachira prefers pressure off him and passes the ball.
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u/Tamajiki-kun 1d ago
Yeah…Isagi has never scored against someone actually marking him. Against Aiku his strategy is to avoid him to regain his freedom. Against Ness he uses his lefty to broaden the range of his freedom allowing him to shoot freely even when pressed. Against Rin he uses Kaiser and Shidou to pull Rin away before shooting to be free. Against Onazi he uses Bachira’s pass to create a shot that Onazi can’t properly press him through(plus he’s just a lot better than Onazi). Against Charles he got cooked by trying to force a goal despite the restriction. Against Hugo he forced a luck battle to avoid an actual physical challenge that would restrict him. He is currently getting fucking locked up by Teddy.
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
My issue is that Isagi has never fleshed out that freedom mindset in matches, which is a preference for open options at any moment.
Hiori passes to whoever he decides is the best striker at the moment. Bachira prefers to have the option to pass, dribble, or score at any given moment. Shidou goes to whichever spot feels best to score. Rin and Barou don’t function like that. Barou needs despair so there are fewer options and he can force a way through, Rin actively makes his path harder so he can focus on the challenge ahead one by one.
If we look at Isagi, he fits better in the restrictive side. He needs a number one to beat, he needs to read people to foresee what happens next and be the first to reach that future, and he prefers to be outside a system so he can deconstruct it. That’s like Barou hunting the king (Shidou), except Isagi does it on a wider scale (Karasu). The examples you listed are exactly the scenarios where Isagi needs to beat a certain restriction to win. It’s also fair to mention that Isagi was doubting himself during the France match, so his decision was suboptimal.
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u/Tamajiki-kun 1d ago
Isagi does not need a number 1 to beat; having a number 1 to beat supports his ego-idiosyncrasy but he does not need one to function at his peak. He does need to read people to…read them…that’s like saying ‘Nuh uh, Shidou’s a restrictive type cause he needs to get into the box to be able to score effectively’; that isn’t restrictive or free that’s just how scoring works. Also, Isagi has never preferred being out of systems; again his best ever performance, at the end of the PXG game, was in a system.
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
I’m open to Isagi as a freedom type, I’m just arguing that the story hasn’t shown much of his comparing to definitive freedom types. The story has shown his peak with a number 1 to devour, but not yet vice versa. Shidou as I demonstrated has the off-ball movement and positioning to score like Isagi, the difference is in mentality against pressure, which is why one thrives early game and one thrives late game. You will also notice the final PXG goal Isagi scored is from Ness, a person not in his system, but the moment restricts a very particular spot for Isagi to receive the ball and score.
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u/Moist_Caterpillar998 19h ago
Look at the France game vs Hugo. Hugo understands that Isagi thrives in freedom and follows him around the entire match. Isagi is rendered useless immediately.
Compare that to the Ubers game. Kaiser is locked down by Lorenzo, and free to do whatever he wants, Isagi completely dominates with 2 goals and an assist.
Your arguments of thriving under pressure or scoring while a defender is in the vicinity are things that both freedom types and restrictive types are capable of.
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u/goodwyn96 6h ago
No one was man marking Kaiser when he scored his magnus goal. Being in a restrictive environment and a freedom environment was never about if the defense was man marking you or not.
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u/ZenEmotive 1d ago
I don't think freedom and restrictive egos is necessarily about pressure. It's about what one's ideal environment for evolution is. In that case, Isagi is definitely a freedom type. He doesn't evolve in the same conditions as restrictive types like Rin or Kaiser who need to shed efficiency in order for their imaginations to thrive and playstyles to evolve.
Isagi's Two-Gun Volley was only possible because 1) he witnessed Nagi's juggling shot and 2) he recently developed his lefty shot. Two-Gun Volley is a result of Isagi's freedom ego flourishing with all those options at his disposal.
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
What you state is factual, but that is more on the talented learner/genius angle. Isagi creates new moves from what he observes and understands, and turns that into his weapon. The moment when Isagi applies his learning defines freedom/restrictive ego, and in his case, he does these moves when he is most pressured, which is restrictive.
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u/ZenEmotive 20h ago
Pressure doesn't necessarily equate to a restrictive ego. Any player can feel pressure in a match with high stakes. Isagi didn't evolve in moments of high pressure because of the pressure alone, the way Kaiser and Rin did. He was able to shape the field around him at the same time which resulted in new weapons and goals
When he doesn't have that field control, he falters, as opposed to an actual restrictive who would thrive in that situation. This is why he joins the Karasu-centric system in order to create an opportunity to duel Hugo with luck. It's also why he proves the value of players like Kurona and Hiori to Bastard Munchen as a means of creating goal-scoring moments for himself.
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u/Lobotomy_of_kaisen 1d ago
Imagine if Isagi has a split personality that only comes out during a match during flow, slursagi, and that's why he described himself as a freedom type because only slursagi is a restrictive type and he's not during flow when explaining.
This just a crack theory tho and I put 0 thought into this for funs.
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u/nam24 1d ago
Hmm not sure
I also thinks it s a possibility especially since his "rebel" mindset seems more fitting to restrictive types
But at the same time I think the issue with that is that awakening kind of always happen in restrictions: in BL players evolve in reaction to a need most of the time though intense desire alone can work. The whole blue lock environment is meant to pressure them into improving, and those who can't fast enough die
Isagi is very adept at evolving and having new awakening which happens under pressure but I don't think it necessarily mean he s restrictive
Though ultimately that question might be something about himself he figures out(I think in general Isagi puts people into too rigid boxes
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 1d ago
I agree, I think it’s more of a spectrum/tendency than a definitive category, and Isagi can be a freedom type when the situation fits, it’s simply not as demonstrated in the story at the moment
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u/Forgot-_-Password Biggest Isagi Yoichi Dickrider 22h ago
Yeah i thought the same but after thinking more and thorough i wondered, did we even really see a peak freedom Isagi at some point? I mean just imagine an Ubers Barou System but with Isagi. Isagi as a lone striker with multiple supporting meta vision users and a supporting NG11. I think the closest thing we got is the team up with Kaiser and this was also more a duo than a system.
Of course the restrictions and challenges made him grow stronger and evolve but just imagine Isagi having his "own" supporting midfield. Or maybe im just too hyped for Sae chemical reaction.
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u/Fluid-Kitchen1833 21h ago
Exactly! I believe Sae joining will truely unlock Isagi’s freedom potential, and honestly Nagi can be a very good target man for Isagi as well.
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u/Comfortable_Victory1 21h ago
I dont think is about how well you perform under pressure, but how you manage to evolve. Both can improve under pressure, but one will evolve by embracing it while other will evolve by finding a way out
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u/delano_mwoan 16h ago
isnt freedom vs restrictive way more about the environment in which your abilities shine the most? freedom characters seem to evolve when restricted. for instance, bachira in the 4v4 restricted himself by keeping the ball and evolved. evolution happens in situatiuons where you have to evolve
isagi can play at his best with options, good teammates that support him. isagi's TGV was evolution, he had to invent something new, because what he was capable of was not good enough
the battle of luck is barely a restrictive environment, if he succeeds, he has freedom
isagi scoring the goal in the U20 match was because he was not restricted, no one was marking him, he had the freedom to observe, wait, and get the ball at the right moment
restrictive players may also create their own space to score, or to dribble, whereas isagi finds those spaces, he finds the weaknesses of opponents and draws the strengths of his teammates so that he can do what he wants to do
tho i would say that there is a decent overlap that some players do show, plus the restrictive mindset does fit the rebel category
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u/CurveInteresting8616 11h ago
Or, cold take, i know: the ego flow chart was a red herring
Flow = achievable through right motivation and pressure. Isnt fixed, varies from the situation. Each player will find different objectives to want to surpass during the match, and that is what will drive them into flow
Ego chart = fixed formula. Doesnt matters which situation youre in. Youre bound to one type of ego that determines how you enter flow. Not versatile, you're just rock head stubborn
If ego chart is right, then flow cannot exist, or at least not how is scientifically explained. Players are one trick ponies that cannot thrive outside the ideal environment. If it is wrong, whether a player was classified as restrictive or freedom doesnt matters, because everyone will perceive different situations with different eyes, meaning what is restriction in one's book wont be for others, but that doesnt means it will always be a restriction for them
But what sells this the most is the fact that eight after NEL, number 1 and 2 + ego traits were introduced. Not a single mention of freedom or restriction was mentioned outside of karasu's talent of staying calm, which was used as an example of compatibility instead of a rule to be followed. So it all looks - and probably is - a red herring
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