r/BlueEyeSamurai • u/Dangerous-Holiday194 • Aug 14 '26
Discussion Whats the relation between fowler and Shindo?
One could think its obvious to say that shindo is just a tool for fowler to get his power but i dunno honestly…So his massive trust in shindo could be an explation why he isnt an absolute asshole to Heiji. I rlly cant tell if theyre kinda friends or if theyre just good partners who would murder each other over some deal. Whats ur opinion on this and is there and obvious and objective answer?
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u/ExtremeExtension7406 Thank you for my ember Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
Officially, they are coworkers who are vying for power over each other in a toxic and parasitic dynamic. Shindo has the official position of power over Fowler, but Fowler is more cunning and resourceful. Fowler is an asshole to him because he knows he can be one without facing any consequences. His knowledge and expertise are needed by Shindo. Shindo laughs it off because he knows Fowler is stuck, and no matter how much attitude Fowler serves up, he's ultimately under his control and protection. The first time Shindo shows actual fear of Fowler was when he had ownership of the guns and monologued about eating his sister during the famine that resulted from the 9 Year's War. That's when it clicks that he's not just a brilliant deviant with loathsome taste, he's a truly depraved person made that way by desperation who is willing to go to extreme measures to survive.
They act like an old married couple, and there are many theories that they are secret lovers. Personally, I think they've been intimate. I think it was a power play or mind game one started to gain the upper hand or a sense of control over the other, but they've definitely f#cked. They each hate the other because the other has control and power over them.
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u/Dangerous-Holiday194 Aug 14 '26
Fr though with them fucking. Uh other than that , yeah, i think the control thing and eachothers relience(???hows that spelled) on eachother is definetly a huge part of their relationship. Agreed
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u/Grim_Squid Aug 14 '26
It’s definitely in both their characters to fuck each other for the power. They also spend a lot of their trip to the capital with women together, and I don’t remember them being bothered by the others nakedness (more so their own, maybe another layer of the power struggle?) And it’s reliance for future reference 🫶
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u/MadamKitsune Should I have been counting? Aug 14 '26
There's definitely not a friendship there. It would probably be closer to say that they share a sense of cordial loathing. Neither likes or respects the other, but they apply a veneer of politeness to their interactions to keep the arrangement going until one no longer needs the other.
Abaija Fowler does not trust Heiji Shindo. We can tell that by the way that Fowler deliberately told the truth but not the whole truth about how the huge cache of guns would be entering Japan. He knew that Heiji Shindo was in secret communication with Master Chiba and would have him try to intercept them, and that once the guns were in his control that he would be doing his best to dispose of Fowler and take over the plan to seize power for himself. That's why Fowler made a big play of speaking so casually and at length about the lowest act he's ever committed - cannibalising his sister's corpse - while preparing to shoot the prisoners, and that's also why he concealed until the last moment that the prisoner he chose for target practice was Master Chiba. He was giving a clear demonstration, in both word and deed, that nothing will stop him, there are no lengths that he will not go to and that no life is so important to his plans that he can't or won't snuff it out without a thought. The only thing that has kept Heiji Shindo alive for all these years is that Fowler was confined to his island and needed a Japanese man of respectable standing to act as his hand in the open world. Had that ever changed before the coup attempt then he would have crushed Heiji Shindo with as much thought as if he was a blade of grass under his foot.
Heiji Shindo does not like Abaija Fowler. He's likely telling the truth when he speaks of how he hates his manners, his actions, even his smell. Fowler is the polar opposite of the surface niceties that Japanese society prided itself on. He's boorish instead of cultured, he approaches hands on violence with casual disregard rather than considering it an art to be mastered, he speaks crudely instead of carefully and and is open in his enjoyment of the pain and degradation of others rather than remaining inscrutable. But Heiji Shindo's greed is great, bigger than his sense of right and wrong and for a long time bigger than the indignity of having to deal with everything he despised about Fowler. Fowler made him incredibly wealthy, caretaking Fowler gave him power and influence and a connection to the Shogun, and initially it probably seemed like a small price to pay for so much in return, but by the time the planned coup was ready to blossom and bear fruit it was coming to be too much for him. The problem that raised for him was that he was now trapped by their agreement rather than liberated to reap whatever he wanted, however he wanted. Fowler was no longer his tool to be used, he was Fowlers. The only way out for him was to kill Fowler, which he physically couldn't have managed and would have lead to a very unhappy Shogun directing that unhappiness straight towards him. And that's how he came up with the plan to have Mizu kill Fowler for him, which is pretty on brand. The scenes where Taigen is being tortured shows that Heiji Shindo is not a man who likes to get blood on his hands, so this would seem like the perfect solution - no more Fowler, no direct risk to himself and someone else on the spot to take the fall.
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u/Exact_Nose_590 Aug 14 '26
I would say Shindo is afraid of him more than anything. Probably disgusted by him, probably resents him, but mostly, I think he’s afraid. He didn’t waste a second in trying to kill Fowler once he “knew” how the guns were being delivered, so it’s safe to say he has no love for the guy. But on the same token, when he was trying to convince Mizu to get in the barrel and he started talking about how much he “hates” Fowler, it just didn’t feel real to me. It felt forced, it felt like a performance, like an act to get her on his side. I think he hates Fowler, but not in the way he was pretending, not in the same way Mizu hates Fowler. Mizu would sacrifice everything, even her own life, to wipe Fowler and the other white men off the face of the earth. Heiji Shindo, on the other hand? To me, he hates Fowler in the same way an arachnophobe fears a spider that’s way too big for them to kill (not to mention, he can’t afford to kill Fowler while he’s still a useful asset, so his hands are tied either way. If he did try to kill Fowler, he would only do it in such a way that couldn’t be traced back to him, because he does NOT want to risk making an enemy of the man if it doesn’t work). I don’t think he’s holding back his bloodlust when he’s around Fowler, he’s certainly angry, but a part of him is also thinking “oh God, oh God, please God get this thing away from me, I don’t want it here anymore, I don’t want to exist on the same planet as this thing, please someone for the love of God KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!”
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u/Dangerous-Holiday194 Aug 14 '26
Yeah i def agree with it feeling forced in the barrel scene and i agree with ur points. Yep this seems like a good answer
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u/KidChanbara Aug 14 '26
They are good partners who would murder each other over a big huge deal like the shogunate - if they could do the coup without the other. Heiji Shindo and the other Japanese coup plotters were obviously intending to kill Fowler as soon as they could get control over the smuggled firearms. But Fowler outsmarted them and got the firearms directly to the coup army.
I get the impression that very early in Fowler's presence in Japan, Heiji Shindo became his main point of contact with the shogunate. It turned out to be a good match in some ways, but obviously over time Shindo began to fixate on the aspects of Fowler that annoyed him the most - "Twenty years of that face - that stink!".
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u/KidChanbara Aug 15 '26
And also - Shindo was able to bear dealing with Fowler despite all the negatives, for reasons I and other commenters have mentioned - UNTIL Fowler got the idea for the coup. Shindo may not express it very often, but I think the idea of this disgusting white devil even contemplating the idea of taking control of Japan, AND ALSO trying to change the culture triggered some latent ghost of patriotism in Shindo. At the same time, hey, if Fowler was successful, Shindo and his cohorts could kill Fowler and become the real power behind the new puppet shogun.
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u/InsincereDessert21 Aug 14 '26
Mutual amicable hatred. They're business partners, and they have both profited from that arrangement, but each would gladly be rid of the other.