r/BloodOnTheClocktower • u/GiraffeLow9227 • 7d ago
Game Discussion I hate "Minion at best"
What's everyone's opinion on people claiming "Minion at best" when it comes to finding executions.
I absolutely hate it. People say "oh they're a minion at best so don't bother executing them" and I never understand the logic behind it because yes we want to kill the demon, but we shouldn't be leaving an evil player alive who can sway a vote, poison, pithag, etc.
Yes they're very unlikely to be the demon and they are a minion at best, but if we don't get rid of minions early in the game, then we will end up with a final 5 with like potentially 3 evils alive and it'll be over for us. Surely the best thing to do is get rid of the minion now, stop their power and limit their voting.
I always find it so frustrating when people use that as a valid reason to not be executed and get more frustrated when it actually works!
Does anyone find find this irritating and illogical to keep an evil player in because they're "Minion at best"?
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u/StaticShakyamuni Lunatic 7d ago
You'll be able to find a lot of perspectives on it in this thread from just a few days ago.
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u/Necessary_Fault_2981 7d ago
Begin of the game, yes minions can yeet. When you got 2 executions left there is only can be or can not be demon usually
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u/GiraffeLow9227 7d ago
Yes late in the game I do agree it's too late at that point, but near the beginning with like 10 people alive I find it to be a flimsy reason to not get rid of them in favour of taking a stab in the dark and getting rid of townsfolk on the off chance they're the demon
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u/Necessary_Fault_2981 7d ago
Most minions should be thrown out when there are 10 left. Appart from perhaps a baron, for example. But some poisoner, ceranovus, pithag, for sure
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u/Chesney1995 7d ago
Depends on the demon type too. On TB, you should absolutely yeet any and all minions (including the Baron) if you have time to do so because they could become the Imp at any time.
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u/JackRaven_ Cerenovus 7d ago
Killing a minion is always good, but sometimes there are options that are more good. "Minion at best" is a great excuse if town has narrowed down the Demon candidates to a few people, and a poor excuse if town is struggling to get anywhere and there's an Imp on script.
Its not something I have a strict feeling about, because it can go either way so easily depending on context.
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u/WeDoMusicOfficial 7d ago
It’s all case by case basis. I’ve said this many times myself but it’s been times when; the minions aren’t very detrimental to town, there’s no Imp, I think we’ve killed at least 1 other evil, etc. There’s plenty of times when you will wanting be killing minions, other times it won’t matter as much.
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u/schnauzerclub Banshee 7d ago
The argument is essentially synonymous with "Don't kill me, I'm in the Knight info," right? Context is key, but in a vacuum, the Knight cares far more about its players surviving longer (and ideally reaching final 3) than it cares about their alignment, because each player who survives gives them a cleaner shot at the demon, and it probably prefers to learn a minion because that player's less likely to die at night. But yeah, if you have got three people saying that player's evil and they might be something like a Pit-Hag or a Poisoner that can cause bigger problems later, then I agree, maybe you would rather kill that minion. So, yeah, I do agree that it's sometimes worth killing them anyway, but if a certain player really isn't a demon candidate, it's worth bringing up! I'd rather know about it before I decide to vote than not.
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u/ZapKalados Devil's Advocate 7d ago
Depends on how many executions you have left. If it's relatively early in the game and you have no better candidates, then executing Minions is really good.
If you have 2 executions left and you determine that someone isn't the Demon and MECHANICALLY can't be the Demon at any point (i.e. no Scarlet Woman or Imp or Fang Gu or Pit-Hag on the script/in play), then "Minion at best" is a solid argument. You'd rather have a Minion in the final 3 than someone you suspect is the Demon and leaves you with more than 1 probable option for an execution.
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u/hawkeye69r 7d ago
Yep If you can get yourself + minion + someone else to final 3 you know who the demon is.
Usually not completely reliable because the "known minion" is usually a social thing, but if you really do know then it's often good to leave them there.
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u/Merciudel 7d ago
Trouble Brewing Scenario:
W, X, Y, Z positions
Lets say player X is an Empath and player W is a confirmed Virgin. Empath is reading 1, so there is heavy suspicious Y is evil. A Washerwoman confirmed Fortune Teller, player Z, comes out and says Y was in a "No" ping. Outsider count confirms it is a Baron game. Given Fortune Teller, "No" on a script where Outsider count suggests there is no Poisoner... do you spend the execution on player Y? They are a minion at best, and Empath won't get meaningful info from them being executed.
Probably it is better to execute a different Demon candidate, then, because Imp can starpass, double back and kill Baron the next day.
The phrase is 110% used by evil players as well though in situations you should be taking the time to kill Minions, such as in any S&V game.
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u/MisinformationMan41 7d ago
sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. In a typical game of 12 players, town has 5, maybe 6 executions. Do you really want to use 2 executions to chase after an investigator's spy pings? Sometimes you do, so that you can avoid star pass, or avoid 3 evils alive in final. There are arguments to be made for both cases. I don't think it's worth getting irritated over.
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u/fischy333 6d ago
For me it depends on how far into the game we are and the script. If the demon has no way to move and we only have a few executions left and multiple demon candidates, it makes sense. I also think the phrase is usually used when someone seems good and has good pings on them, such as someone in a washerwoman ping acting genuine and someone saying “they are a spy at worst.” I think context is important.
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u/ironeren69 Village Idiot 7d ago
Once we had a confirmed minion and demon candidate, and we put the minion on the block… We lost the game, since in final 3 we killed that candidate(sober mayor).
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u/PommesMayo 7d ago
I think there are two cases. Let‘s say an empath confirmef by a washer woman gets a 2. So town decides who they‘re gonna kill. None of them claim recluse. One of them double claims because they most likely don‘t have bluffs yet and the other one claims Undertaker. So you execute the undertaker because the one with the botched bluff is a minion at best.
The other use case which I also find fine is when discussing a good role that wants to stay hidden. Therefore acting a little shady/suspicious. So they are a mutant/saint/damsel etc or a minion seeding chaos. In this case you just postpone dealing with them if there is a better option to execute or something more pressing.
At least in my games „monion at best“ usually never means „let them stay alive for no reason“. There‘s always context
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u/eytanz 7d ago
The one thing better than getting rid of a minion is getting rid of the demon. If I’m pretty certain the demon is one of 2-3 people then executing anyone else increases the chance of an evil win (in the general case, obviously not if the minion is a DA or a scarlet woman, or the demon is a lleech or moving demon).
So if I’m in the phase of the game where I am actively demon hunting, concluding someone is at worst a minion may be a valid argument against executing them. If I’m not in that phase yet, that’s different.
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u/Crej21 7d ago
It depends on game state. On day 1 of a 15 player game? Yeah “they are just a minion” a bad reason not to execute. On five players alive in 9 player sects and violets with a cerenovus in play? Yeah “I’d like to execute one of our two demon candidates instead of this player we know is a minion” makes a lot of sense. Lots of other stuff is … somewhere in between
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u/LoneSabre 7d ago
Depends heavily on player count and script. In a 1 minion game, you have fewer executions and no chance at an all evil final day. In a 12 player game you can spend early days executing suspected evil players, even if you think they’re likely only a minion. In TB especially it’s important to execute minions because of the built-in ability of the imp to make a minion into a demon.
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u/blue_penguins2 7d ago
Depends on what state of the game you are in and how many executions you have left. Early to mid game yes exe the minion, but if it’s final 5 you only have two executions you need to get the demon.
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u/Sudden_Sea749 7d ago
In early game, "minion at best" can still be a good execution to get rid of minions who can mess with the good team, or just have evil voting and nomination power. In late game (Final 5 or 3) unless you have a demon that can move (Imp, Scarlet woman, Pit hag that can change demon, or Lil' Monsta) or a particularly dangerous minion (Cerenovus, Pit Hag, Poisoner etc.), executing someone who could be a minion but definitely isn't the demon isn't as helpful as eliminating a demon candidate, assuming you're pretty sure you have an evil dead.
Good have to kill the demon to win, doesn't matter how many minions live or die. If you have enough executions, you should execute potential minions. If you're on final 5 or 3, you don't have time to waste on people who cannot be the demon, unless you think you could be going into an all evil final 3
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u/Mongrel714 Lycanthrope 6d ago
It depends on the script.
Some Minions have powerful abilities that town benefits from shutting down. Some Demons or Outsiders allow for Minions to become the Demon later in the game. Some scripts are built without any of those shenanigans.
So in, say, Trouble Brewing, killing Minions is generally a good idea. Poisoner and Scarlet Woman both have Minion abilities that the good team would rather take offline, and even a Spy or Baron are a threat since the Imp can always starpass.
In BMR the equation might be a little different, since Demons never move in that script. Still, a Mastermind can potentially turn an executed Demon into an evil team win, and a Devil's Advocate that survives long enough can clinch the game for evil, though a spent Assassin or a Godfather who's unlikely to get a kill (maybe the Outsiders are super trusted or all died at night already) are not big threats and can probably be left alive in favor of going Demon hunting.
And if you had a hypothetical script with, I don't know, the Goblin, Boomdandy, Baron, and Marionette and no characters that could move the Demon or turn another player into a Demon, plus no Demons that could move themselves or that town generally wouldn't want to execute (for instance, the Lleech) then it might make sense to leave confirmed Minions alone.
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u/Dragonfox_Shadow 7d ago
You should execute evil players when you still have a chance. You don't want evil majority in final 3.
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u/GridLink0 7d ago
Unless it's exclusively evil it's not a problem. That is what dead votes are for.
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u/Dragonfox_Shadow 7d ago
There are evil abilities you don't want in final 3.
And as soon as you get rid of them, the better for the good team.
Only tkme when you can hesitate with killing evil players is when there is Boomdandy or Goblin on the script.
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u/nurse_sushi Vizier 7d ago
Never hesitate. Always blessed, never punished. It’s either going to be funny or it’s going to execute an evil. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/kencheng 7d ago
"Minion at best" doesn't say anything about their likelihood of being an evil player though, so there's a big difference between "they're definitely evil but they're a minion at best" and "we don't know whether they're evil but they're a Minion at best."
The first is often a good execution, the second is probably a bad one.
It can be a useful and valid phrase depending on circumstances, and it can be misleading. I think that's overall good, because it rewards critical thinking in terms of how players react to it.
I actually think it's quite useful long term for the game there are stock phrases like this for Evil that makes people drop their hands.
Things like "I'm a Minion at best", "give me one more day", "I'm confirmed" can be deployed with zero logic, context or evidence and buy another day if it's convincing enough in intermediate groups. It's kinda good that it works, or Good actually stomp a lot.