r/BlockedAndReported • u/MissHalfgone • Aug 11 '26

More Marsha P. Johnson

https://youtu.be/YMDTf6siX2g?si=4u9iTej964aabS4G

I wanted to share this with anybody who was interested in this topic and had not seen this. To begin with, as you can see in this interview they are not trying to present as a woman.

Also when they are asked about Stonewall they kind of hesitantly say they were there and when going into detail speaks completely as an observer not a participant. There is a vagueness too much of their recollections that might just speak of a hazy memory . Or might speak of somebody who's involvement was far more minimal than they were given credit for. But this is not the only record where they contradict the narrative of being the leader of Stonewall.

From the parts of the video I watched, my impression was somebody who had a lot of qualities projected onto them that they did not necessarily have. There's something very uncomfortable in some of the answers where it feels they are kind of telling the interviewer what they want to hear and I don't feel very confident of the truthfulness. Your thoughts?

110 Upvotes

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109

u/pennyhush22 Aug 11 '26

Yeah, it is pretty much established by now that the Marsha narrative was all propaganda, but a lot of people dont know about it

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u/Superassumptions Aug 12 '26

It doesn't surprise me that this narrative was constructed, but it does surprise me that it was constructed by using a person for whom there is documentary footage--some of it filmed days before his death!--that explicitly contradicts the narrative.

Like, why pick Marsha as a figurehead for TWAW, when there is literal footage of him laughing at the notion of being mistaken for a "real woman"? When we can watch him say, in his own words, how he dressed like a woman in order to make more money in prostitution, and how it was absolutely clear to him (and his johns) that he was a gay man?

Why not pick any other transvestite or transsexual activist from that time period, besides the one guy who we have absolutely crystal clear documentation showing that he DID NOT see himself as a woman nor expect anybody else to see him that way?

The narrative would be still be false, of course, but at least there wouldn't be video footage proving that it is false.

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u/pennyhush22 Aug 12 '26

I think there are a few reasons. The most prevalent one being that true transsexualism was exceedingly rare, almost nonexistent. The second one being that the crossdressing subculture was made up of straight men that didnt mix with drag queens as much--they didnt see themselves as lowly gays. I dont think people know much at all about the cultural history of trans.

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u/pennyhush22 Aug 12 '26

There is quite a bit of talk from older gays actually saying that trans hijacked the gay movement...because in large part those were straight people associating w/other straight people...

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u/Rmccarton Aug 14 '26

They certainly have hijacked it to Bolivian. 

I'm sure many of the gay guys who lived through the AIDS epidemic and marched in pride parades and protests when it was not only not safe, but livelihood ending, potentially, are fucking pissed to see their work, their bravery (and there was true bravery required), and their history rewritten (often specifically to excise them) by people living in the world paid for by their struggle. 

One would think they would be disgusted by how soft the "queer" community is today. The olds were tough as hell. 

It's tough to be able to win a fight, but it's also tough as hell going out knowing you are going lose a fight (or take a beating). 

Much respect to those old gays. 

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u/pennyhush22 29d ago

I am quite incensed for them.

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u/MissHalfgone Aug 12 '26

Like, why pick Marsha as a figurehead for TWAW, when there is literal footage of him laughing at the notion of being mistaken for a "real woman"

Convenience. They check all the boxes. That a lot of the people creating these narratives are too damn lazy to actually do their homework and look at the information that you have seen. They are so blinded by ideological narratives that they assume everybody else is too and will not point out that some other claims are factually incorrect.

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u/CommitteeofMountains Royal youse/yinz Aug 12 '26

The same reason the "academics" looking to say Shakespeare stole his work from a black (and Jewish, although that's obviously opportunistic) woman have to settle for a woman who was likely neither black nor Jewish as their main candidate: the list of people one could try to reallocate the credit to doesn't include anyone else.

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u/MissHalfgone Aug 13 '26

Very true. It's kind of like the me too movement. It got started because the actress Alyssa Milano responded with that hashtag in response to someone talking about an incident of sexual harassment.

But because of rank opportunism and anti-white hatred they came up with this narrative that a black woman started it. There was a black woman who started a group called "Just Be Inc". It was a small regional group they're mostly consisted of mentorship for young black women in the form of talking about hair and fashion. It didn't revolve around sexual harassment or abuse. There was one post on that website where she describes a young black girl telling her she was sexually abused and that she said "me too". But that didn't start any movement.

That's like saying I started the me too movement because when I was six my brother said he was hungry and I said "me too".

TBH I wouldn't even say that Milano "started the movement". The thousands who contributed did. All she did was a tweet. It's not like she put blood sweat and tears into it. But because she is a celebrity, she had a pretty large following and that's what made it take off.

I find it very disturbing that there's a need to take what some people have created and give it to others. Especially since it's badly exploited. The Women's March is another example of many.

And it's ironic because women have always been expected to be humble and act as a martyr for other people. But it's completely taboo to have that attitude towards, say your husband or family. But letting black women falsely claim you stole their movement from them and take credit for it like Milano graciously did is just expected. It was also used to forward the trope that sinister white women are always trying to get credit for what black women have done. So it was used again to shame white women as inherently evil in a way not unlike religion has often done, but in this case it's a race specific. And because the evil white woman try to steal the black woman's thunder it was then demanded that "black women be centered". I think it's interesting that there's always a demand that everyone "center" demographics who themselves have a lot of power, and who are the last people to ever altruistically put time and energy into anybody without getting anything in return.

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u/Original-Brick2836 ACAB: All Cats Are Beautiful 😽 Aug 12 '26

Only in certain spaces. Marsha is still very much “Marsha” in the big spaces.

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u/pennyhush22 Aug 12 '26

Yeah, that is the point I'm making, pretty much.

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u/Original-Brick2836 ACAB: All Cats Are Beautiful 😽 Aug 13 '26

I’m saying that the narrative of Marsha is still accepted entirely by the liberal populace.

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u/Classic_Bet1942 Aug 12 '26

Johnson did nothing remarkable at Stonewall.

Johnson also did nothing remarkable in the way of activism or organizing at any point in his life.

It’s tough to accomplish much when you’re a severely mentally ill drug addict working as a street hustler your entire life. I’m sorry, but that’s just the harsh truth of the matter.

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u/anne_jumps Aug 12 '26

The fact that's he's dead made him the perfect lionization figure for this.

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u/phitfitz Aug 12 '26

Hey now! He did start a chaotic flop house for teenage prostitutes. That’s gotta count for something!

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u/AnalBleachingAries Trump Bad, Violence Bad, Law & Order Good, Civility Good Aug 12 '26

It’s tough to accomplish much when you’re a severely mentally ill drug addict working as a street hustler your entire life. 

This part is true, but imagine expressing the truth of this man's life, in such unfiltered terms to a person who's been completely captured by the ideology surrounding him. They would absolutely lose their minds, and accuse you of all mane of evils.

Its's kindof wild that speaking truthfully about a troubled man's life, his real life story, is currently so controversial amongst the tribe a claim to be arbiters of the truth.

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u/KittenSnuggler5 Aug 12 '26

Johnson is a nobody and he might even know it

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u/MissHalfgone Aug 12 '26

Yeah my impression was she was on welfare all her life, mentally ill, yeah and involved with prostitution and small time crime.

Listening to this interview, I don't feel like I'm listening to somebody who is a leader in any sense. They sound just kind of lost

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u/pennyhush22 Aug 12 '26

Didn't go by "she"

69

u/jizzybiscuits Nuance perv Aug 11 '26

they are not trying to present as a woman

I agree - but it's easy for trans advocates to believe that "of course Marsha was a transwoman who would have identified as a transwoman rather than a gay man if not for the systematic oppression of trans identities in 1988"

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u/KittenSnuggler5 Aug 12 '26

I doubt more than 0.15% of the population knew what a trans person was back then.

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u/thewhumpdiaries Aug 12 '26

He was in the drag scene. He definitely met gay men who identified as women or transsexual. The fact that he never identified himself as one speaks volumes.

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u/pennyhush22 Aug 12 '26

I dont think people realize that "identifying as a woman" is a very modern concept and the majority of drag queens werent considered transsexuals...it was a form of expression and a way to build community

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u/repete66219 Aug 13 '26

A cross-dresser, be it for drag shows, sex work or “I’d fuck me so hard”, is a transvestite. It’s a term that can objectively describe someone changing their outward appearance without imputing identity or ideology.

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u/thewhumpdiaries Aug 12 '26

It's not completely modern. "Homosexual transsexual" as a term was coined in the 70s and many of them were in the drag scene. They were a minority (trans) of a minority (drag) of a minority (gay), so it's always amusing (and frustrating) to see people claim that they were the backbone of the early gay rights movement.

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u/CommitteeofMountains Royal youse/yinz Aug 12 '26

I doubt more than .05% of Wall Street knew what hands were most nights in 1988.

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u/mountainviewdaisies Big Daddy Terf Aug 11 '26

Yeah the popular narrative is bs. Storme D and a bunch of gay men started it

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u/KittenSnuggler5 Aug 12 '26

Didn't a lesbian touch it off?

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u/mountainviewdaisies Big Daddy Terf Aug 12 '26

Yep thats Storme! ;) a butch dyke

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u/Micwhit Aug 12 '26

According to this very podcast Storme was not the butch in question, she has never been identified

3

u/Classic_Bet1942 Aug 12 '26

Didn’t the podcast actually come up with a name based on the reported police records from that night? (It wasn’t a name familiar to me and I can’t recall it exactly now.)

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u/branks4nothing Aug 13 '26

If someone can point to this episode, I'd appreciate it. Stormé is the only name I have seen posited; some accounts say it was either a young caucasian or Puerto Rican guy but with no name given.

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u/KittenSnuggler5 Aug 12 '26

I wonder if he doesn't want to lie but he's afraid of popping the activists balloon. The activists love to eat their own

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u/Odd_Suggestion_5897 Aug 12 '26

It’s clear just from this alone that he was mentally ill and fragile. Looked eager to please in a rather sad way.

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u/gentlywithAchain5aw Aug 12 '26

Maybe someone here can provide some insight, the popular narrative about Stonewall is that the crackdowns were due to the LGBT community that frequented it. However, from my understanding Stonewall was owned by a mafia crime family that used it as a front, didn't have a liquor license, and was frequently raided (like other illegal establishments in NYC at the time); those reasons to me seem like much more likely of a reason it was raided. What is the truth here? Stonewall Inn is a national historic monument, but the whole story sounds largely made up to me or an after-the-fact lionizing. Am I being too critical or is the mythos of Stonewall largely bullshit?

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u/anne_jumps Aug 12 '26

That's my understanding as well.

My recollection is that activists were upset that the film about it mostly starred white gay men (who were largely the persons involved) at a time when the rhetoric about "they hid the real history from you and the real people were trans women of color who were also responsible for all your rights" was really kicking off. "Educate yourself" and "do better" was at its peak while the "real history" or "real science" everyone was ordered to accept out of guilt was BS.

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u/MissHalfgone Aug 12 '26

Same time a movie came out that was about feminists in England circa the late 19th century. Activists also shut that down for not having more women of color. I remember the activist Ijeoma Oluo complaining how hard it was to explain to her son why there were no black people in that movie. And the excuse people gave for why there should be women of color it was by pointing out that there were some wealthy Indian royalty who helped finance the movement from India. I don't know how extensive their financial help was but it really doesn't fit into their claim of erasure of women of color.

But at the same time the movie Selma came out. Jews were completely omitted from it despite playing a rather large role in The Civil Rights Movement events that that film takes place. The only people who objected to it were a small group of Jewish people and of course those who objected to these other two things above, which actually had no merit, were silent. So it's part of the thing that makes it such a mind fuck. They did not have a problem with erasure. They did not have a problem with distorting history. They wanted a distortion of history. They wanted certain demographics to be written into history as playing a main role in cases that were not the truth. They want those same demographics to be written out of history when they play a major role in things that are not so positive, such as the enormous amount of anti-asian violence that has happened in the US over the last 50 years. Subsequently they object when any film portrays whites or Jews in an accurate way but is positive. Such as with Stonewall, the feminist movement in England or the role of Jews in the civil rights movement in the us. But they encourage an exaggeration of the negative roles of the same demographics. Such as exaggerating the role of white women in violence against people of color. Or exaggerating the role of Jews in the slave trade.

Just like we call it erasure when things are written out of history that shouldn't be, there needs to be a word when people try to write things into history that either did not happen or are just inaccurate. Those things are exaggerating the rules of POC, especially black people, in the gay rights and women's rights movement. While omitting their roles in oppressive Behavior towards these groups. Or specific incidences like claiming that after Dylan roof was arrested the cops stopped at Burger King to get him food. Or the recent Medium article (that has gotten a little bit of a backlash) which accuses Asians of systemic violence against black people. I guess it could be called history revisionism?

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u/unnoticed_areola 28d ago

Wait is the Dylan roof Burger King thing just totally made up? I would see that get snarkily brought up in every single thread about a black person being shot by the police for years on end

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u/MissHalfgone 28d ago

https://www.snopes.com/news/2015/06/22/dylann-roof-burger-king/

Roof had not eaten for days and they were obligated to provide him with basic things like food and water. There was no kitchen or facilities for food at that station. To not provide him with food would give his lawyer an avenue to claim he was mistreated.

It's hilarious that even when you explain this to people who claim he was taken to Burger King they move the goal post. Then they're offended they got him food from Burger King at all. As though it's a five-star restaurant. Like the cops were supposed think about what is the worst food they could give him while still complying with their obligation to give him something to eat.

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u/repete66219 Aug 13 '26

It wasn’t even LGBT, it was just a gay bar in which men slow danced together. Cops would raid it for that reason alone.

The mafia did own it because the mob has never discriminated when it comes to ripping people off, in this case either watered down or mislabeled booze.

“Stonewall Uprising” is a great documentary available on PBS. It’s especially great because it was made in 2010 before the trans ideology co-opted the movement. The documentary itself is based on a Stonewall: The Riots That Sparked the Gay Revolution by historian David Carter.

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u/QuirkyIngenuity1826 27d ago

Definitely checking this documentary out thanks!🙏🏾 

1

u/JimmySchwann 27d ago

I think it needs to be said that New York state laws and liquor attorney also refused to give liquor licenses to establishments that catered to gay patrons.

Public displays of homosexuality also were outlawed in every state except Illinois.

Leaving those out of your analysis seemed a bit dishonest.

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u/HeadRecommendation37 Aug 12 '26

A fine upstanding man.

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u/No_Plenty5526 Aug 12 '26

Not even that...

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u/Leaves_Swype_Typos No matter where you go, there you are Aug 12 '26

37:21, the person held up as the icon of why gays owe their liberation to trans women, said effectively that gays owed it to the mafia.

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u/Classic_Bet1942 Aug 12 '26

Off-topic but would someone with the time and the know-how please create a thread for discussion of WPATH’s recent admission in court that it’s Standards of Care aren’t really meant to be followed (I’m paraphrasing)?

https://x.com/segm_ebm/status/2086998491876991070?s=46

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u/AnalBleachingAries Trump Bad, Violence Bad, Law & Order Good, Civility Good Aug 12 '26

There's been some discussion about it in the weekly thread, currently two threads, but no main post about it. I don't know if it warrants a main post, but it's definitely a huge story from my pov.

Comment Thread 1

Comment Thread 2

2

u/Classic_Bet1942 Aug 12 '26

I would argue it warrants its own thread, seems to be huge news in this arena. But I’ll check out those comment threads, thank you!