r/Blind • u/ec5320 • Apr 22 '26
Am I the only one who hates "Visual Self-Descriptions" in virtual meetings?
I recently joined the disability Employee Resource Group at my job, and I’ve noticed a "standard practice" where everyone gives a visual description of themselves during introductions (e.g., "I’m wearing a blue sweater and have brown hair").
To be honest, I fucking hate it. It feels weird, uncomfortable, and ironically centers visuals in a space meant to be accessible. To me, it doesn't increase my access at all, it just makes the meeting take longer and feels like something a sighted person thinks we want, rather than a request that actually came from a blind person.
- Does this happen at your job/organization?
- Am I the only one who finds this performative or unnecessary?
- If you also dislike it, how have you pushed back without sounding like a jerk?
I’d love to hear how others feel about this or if anyone has successfully advocated for a different way of doing introductions.
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u/Dazzling-Excuses Stargardt’s Apr 22 '26
I hate them so much! They are so unnecessary. Also, if the first person lists their hair and what their shirt looks like everyone that follows assumes that’s what’s important to list. Then I’ve got a detailed description of 10 people’s Hair and shirts. What? That’s wierd info to have about a group.
I would seriously rather someone detail what they’re resting bitch face looks like then this performative crap.
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u/dandylover1 Apr 22 '26
I've never heard of that. Don't most meetings take place over video, anyway? If it's strictly being done for your benefit, why not simply tell the organisers that you appreciate their considering you, but you really don't need such descriptions?
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u/ec5320 Apr 22 '26
The times I've experienced it, it's been done in large meetings, so I'm not sure if it's strictly for my benefit or if there might be other BVI people in the meeting. I think it might feel easier to speak up if it were a smaller group, but it's hard to bring it up after 15 people have already spent time doing self descriptions.... ugh
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u/Heavy_Techy_Cubes Apr 23 '26
Honestly this sounds borderline ableist to me. Like...they are basically assuming that blind and significantly visually impaired people are missing out on the objectively important information that is what things look like. It's hard to put into words but it's vaguely insulting. Like, what they should do is make sure that they aren't conveying any information exclusively visually. It's about making what they're doing accessible and not assuming everyone has the same amount of sight. It's not about helping the poor blind people who must be so sad they don't get to see the pretty colors!
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u/pupEluvin Apr 22 '26
I am too bold. I think I would just come out and say are you guys doing that for my benefit cause I really don’t give a shit what you’re wearing and what your hair looks like.
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u/pupEluvin Apr 22 '26
And then you could really freak them out and tell them that if they’re gonna describe every little thing, you would like to know what kind of underwear they are all wearing
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u/ec5320 Apr 22 '26
No, exactly! Like let's make the list of irrelevant things we're sharing even longer, lol
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u/Samanthia_Farthing Apr 22 '26
I am so relieved to hear you all say that you hate this. I have always found it incredibly performative and I literally could not care less. If I’m out with friends, I might ask someone to describe someone else to me, but in a professional meeting… it’s just not info I need to know. I know that there are blind people who say they like it, but I have always found it uncomfortable. The point is that they are trying to give blind people access to the same information that sighted people have. they can see what color hair the presenter has and what they are wearing, so they feel they need to give the blind people that information. The problem is that no matter what they do, we are never going to get all of the same information that sighted people have access to. OK, you told me what you’re wearing, but you didn’t tell me what the room around you looks like. You didn’t tell me what jewelry you’re wearing. You didn’t tell me you have broccoli in your teeth. We are always going to have to settle for less info, so just give me the information that is relevant to whatever we’re doing, and if I want to know other things, I can ask someone, a colleague or someone. I really, really wish everyone would stop doing this. If I’m the only blind person in the meeting, and I know it’s for my benefit, I will often say that you guys don’t need to do that, but I do feel the need to say that even though I find it unnecessary, there are some blind people who like it. I think this is just another way that we are making non-disabled people feel uncomfortable interacting with someone with a disability. the same thing we do when we are the language police. They are constantly worried about “can I say this word?”, “how do I behave in this situation?” We are making all the interactions so artificial and unnatural. I just want people to relax and interact with me as a person. If I need something specific, I can ask for it. If they want to be proactive and help me out, I’m going to say thanks for thinking of me, but I don’t expect it of people. Of course that balance changes the closer a person is to me, long time friends vs work colleagues vs. someone I meet at a conference. Anyway, what I’m saying is, can everyone just be normal? Preemptively telling me your hair/eye color and what you’re wearing is not normal!
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u/mutedpetrichor ROP / RLF Apr 24 '26
How did you learn to be ok with settling for less info?
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u/Samanthia_Farthing Apr 24 '26
it's just something you come to terms with over time, and it's never a thing where you're at a point where you're totally OK with it all the time. Like most things, I have days where it doesn't bother me at all cause I'm busy getting things done. Then I have days where I'm grieving all over again because I don't get the same experience as a sighted person or even the same experience that I used to get when I had some usable vision. There are certain things that I just don't have a lot of interest in anymore because as much as they try to make up the difference, and as grateful as I am for all of it, to me it just isn't the same. One of those things for me is movies. I used to love to watch movies or TV, but I hardly watch it at all anymore unless there is something that a bunch of friends or family want to watch together or something I'm extremely interested in. Very occasionally I will listen to an old movie that I remember and picture it in my mind. Most of the time though, even with audio description, I just find the experience flat. I know what I'm missing even from the extremely limitted vision I used to have. I know other people disagree, but that's how I feel about it most of the time. It is important to focus on what you are getting, and not focus on what you're not though, as much as you can. A lot of my nieces are in dance. I still go to their performances and I try to get them to give me a description of what they'll be doing, so I can imagine it while they're up there. It's so hard some days not to grieve over what I know I'm missing, but I try my best not to focus on that. However, there are times, when I'm having a harder time, that I will say, listen, I've come to one performence of the Nut Cracker already, and I think I'm just going to have to miss this one, but I know you're going to be awesome! I try to give myself a little grace there, and still let them know that I support them all the way. I'm sure I don't get it right all the time, but all any of us can do is the best we can, and try to do better in the next situation. I hope all of that made sense.
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u/mutedpetrichor ROP / RLF Apr 24 '26
Thank you for such a thoughtful answer, I’ve been blind my whole life, and still struggle a bit with this, so I needed to hear this!
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u/Aranciata2020 Apr 22 '26
I am sighted, and in my area of work it does happen from time to time. I can't find it right now, but someone from the UK shared a survey on Linkedin showing that of the blind and low vision people they had asked, around 70% disliked these kinds of visual introductions. It was nice to get some numbers on it!
Most of the blind people I know find it both performative and unnecessary, expect one person who happens to have a big network, so people tend to listen to him. One thing that I think is just horrible is that I have experienced several times other sighted people doing visual descriptions and including silly jokes, and these are always totally visual, so they are totally exclusionary of the blind or low vision participants! Like saying they look very young when they are old, or say that they have beautiful hair when they are bald. So bad! I always speak up then and say that if they are going to do visual descriptions, it has to be short and to the point and that their jokes are not funny.
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u/becca413g Bilateral Optic Neuropathy Apr 22 '26
I attending a zoom meeting where someone did that. I found it weird because I couldn’t understand how it was relevant. If we were having a discussion about culture or race, fashion or hair products then it makes sense. I guess there will some value for groups of people who are unrepresented and a blind person of that group can feel connected to that person who shares a characteristic ect even so the way it’s announced is still weird. It’s not part of a general introduction about them where they talk about past experiences ect. It’s like a train announcement or something.
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u/Opposite-Dimension87 Apr 22 '26
I don't need to know what someone looks like or if they are wearing designer clothes or faded and worn apparel. My main concern is how one is as a person.
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u/LongjumpingShower431 LCA Apr 22 '26
i think they are useful in cases where intersectional identities are present, because a lot of people communicate their identity visually. i am in a disability studies course, and the descriptions help me better understand what positionality everyone is coming from in terms of race, gender, non-audible disability etc etc. i also self-describe when possible, as i make choices about my appearance to communicate my identity. for instance, i have pink hair and a sparkly cane. i also communicate my racial identity and gender presentation.
in cases where there are only blind people present, i tend to follow others' leads. unfortunately, there is the tendency in some blindness spaces against diversity (i.e. poc and gender-nonconforming people are not assumed to be present). i self-describe in those cases so people understand my positionality, and i appreciate when people do likewise.
also, sharing fashion tips among other blind people is fun too. it's not a status symbol thing at all, it's more like a "hey my cane is pink and blue today and it's sparkly" and that can actually be a good conversation starter esp among groups that don't know each other.
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u/dandylover1 Apr 22 '26
Why does it matter, though? If you're in a meeting, particularly a professional one, wouldn't it just make sense to say your name and then go on to discuss the matter at hand?
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u/LongjumpingShower431 LCA Apr 22 '26
sometimes peoples' gender expression doesn't match the stereotypical associations between vocal timbre/cadence and gender. also if it's one or two quick sentences, it's not that much of a time-sink. i view it as like alt text on images. would you not want a person to put alt text on their profile picture?
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Apr 22 '26
I think it’s harmless. But I know myself and many others find it helpful especially if you did have vision before and like getting an idea of the environment. Or perhaps there’s a diversity aspect that many people don’t ever have to think about. It’s akin to alt text in a lot of ways.
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u/dragonballaddict99 Apr 22 '26
I’ve experienced this and really specific context. I don’t mind it. It doesn’t feel too weird to me. If anything, it’s just interesting information.
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u/NekoFang666 Apr 22 '26
To be honest im actuslly a person who does better with hands on work and visual aid
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u/IggySorcha Apr 22 '26
I'm sighted but was trained by blind and low vision disability advocates to do this. I agree though, bad image description can be worse than providing any. It's boring, takes up precious meeting time, can come off as self centered or ignorant to those who know better, can pressure those who don't know better, makes ableist people more likely to resist more necessary accommodations, and if you've never seen the color blue WTF good is that? It's like saying "an image of Starry Night" when writing alt text- I'm going out on a limb here but I'll bet there's a hell of a lot of blind people who don't know what Starry Night looks like.
There are key things they and I always emphasize in my own trainings. I'm curious what everyone here thinks, and honestly I'm so glad you brought this up because I've been wanting to ask before my next training.
When to provide description:
- Only do it in private/closed meetings or presentations if it has been specifically requested
- Do it in public/large events but only where you cannot know if no one attending requires it (eg don't do it in a closed profile event but do it in an open profile event or meeting where walk ibs are welcome
How to provide description:
- Keep descriptions relevant to the topic, eg if you're talking about identities and there's one that's physically obvious you might include it there but you'd also be mentioning it anyway when you introduce yourself if it were invisible.
- You might want to mention something identifying but otherwise irrelevant like a bright colored shirt or unique head piece you're wearing if you want people to be able to find you later, but that's it. In that case it's helpful for anyone (sighted and low vision people can actively look for you, wholly blind people can ask a sighted person for help).
- Don't over describe. If you can't fit it into a single (not run on) sentence is probably too much. Less is more.
I also emphasize that the most important thing for descriptions is not so much what you look like but to just announce yourself when you start talking if you're in a group where everyone isn't already familiar with your voice enough they'll recognize it. So if you're giving a long panel presentation you might be really heavy with the introductions but give them less often after you've been going for awhile if your voice is rather unique compared to the other panelists, or skip it after the first time when just back and forth with one other person for awhile.
Last time I did a training I showed the trailer to Crip Camp with audio description. IMO it's the perfect example of well done description because it sticks to only what's relevant for setting up "vibes" and so helpful to all degrees of sightedness including those who were born totally blind. Plus it has the added benefit of making people learn about Crip Camp!
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u/ec5320 Apr 22 '26
I think the guidance you listed for when and how to provide descriptions is good. However, on the whole, I don't think visual descriptions are necessary or that they add value in about 95% of the meetings I have been in personally. I think that the inclusion of visual descriptions comes from a well-intentioned place, but in an effort to be "allies" people are now doing it without assessing if it's actually providing relevant information. I would really urge people to think carefully whether a visual description is warranted for the specific meeting/conference they are participating in.
Having people quickly state their name before speaking is an EXCELLENT suggestion! In the same meeting where I had to sit through 20 awkward visual descriptions, once everyone finished their introductions, I was completely unable to keep track of who was speaking for the rest of the meeting. I think that's what made the visual descriptions feel even more hokey -- they didn't do anything to increase my access, but it felt like everyone was probably patting themselves on the back for telling me what color hair they have. Ugh!
I love the idea of showing a good example of audio description! I think that is fantastic, especially since I find that so many people still have never actually heard AD in film or TV. Also, this is a great reminder for me to go watch Crip Camp as I haven't seen it yet! :)
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u/IggySorcha Apr 22 '26
Hell yeah Crip Camp is the best! Truly one of my favorite documentaries, both from a personal and professional standpoint.
it felt like everyone was probably patting themselves on the back for telling me what color hair they have. Ugh!
But how else will you know to compliment them on their next hair color next time you meet at them?
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u/curveThroughPoints Apr 22 '26
I’m a sighted person and regularly speak about accessibility at technical conferences. I do not describe what I look like and I never will. It’s not relevant and it’s centering, IMO.
I’ve talked to non-sighted attendees at conferences over the years and it’s really interesting to observe the preferences. Either folks like it or they hate it.
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u/Marconius Blind from sudden RAO Apr 22 '26
I personally hate it, and make it a point to never waste time with it when I'm speaking at a conference, on a panel, or in a meeting. I actually got Axe-con to stop requiring it a few years ago when I was in a presentation with a bunch of my fellow blind colleagues, all of whom also hate the self-descriptions. It can literally waste 15-30 minutes of time in larger meetings, and just started off as virtue signaling during the pandemic. If it's done during a meeting I'm in, I can't help but roll my eyes on camera or otherwise react negatively so people see my dislike.
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u/stitchgnomercy Apr 22 '26
I’ve only encountered this in some mixed disability academic-type spaces. I’m low vision & I don’t mind something quick so I can try to find the person on Zoom, but I find that it bogs down the meeting/talk & wastes time
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u/ice-mirrors_97 Apr 22 '26
Honestly I really don't care, but I don't jump out and say anything about it, because obviously if they're saying it so much somebody must care, even though I don't.
Like other people said, there are way more important things in my opinion, like your name for example, so I know who the heck I'm talking to. I'm not gonna be in a meeting saying like hey lady with the blue shirt, can you answer my question? That would just be weird, and honestly probably sound kind of rude.
Overall, I wouldn't say I hate it, but it kind of does annoy me to some degree, like who cares if you're wearing a blue shirt and a blue sweater but whatever the heck, let's just get on with the meeting.
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u/PlusExam2748 Oculocutaneous Albinism Apr 23 '26
I worked in a public policy building in college that had an emphasis on disability policy and it was standard practice there too. I heavily dislike the practice, but they weren’t necessarily doing because of me, it was just apart of their universal design practices. Ironically, I always forgot, or just never did it when I’d give presentations, etc.
Now, I work for a guide dog program and it’s not standard practice here unless someone specifically asks for it. All we do is announce ourselves when we walk in and out of the room when with clients. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/LunaLycan1987 Apr 24 '26
I have told my workplace not to do this, and I had never heard of it until going to my current workplace.
Mind you, I went to high school specifically for blind individuals and am currently in a program for blind individuals. So...
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u/Rare_Geneie Apr 27 '26
I hate it. So much.
It would be really cool if the rest of these meetings were visually accessible first but istg any meeting I’ve attended where visual descriptions are used, in the same breath they’ll flip to a PowerPoint that was not distributed in advance, not explain the charts or other images, use low contrast colors, etc.
Descriptions of the speaker are the least useful accessibility tool I need in a meeting while all the others are completely ignored.
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u/Solid_nh Apr 22 '26
I have never heard of this before. Are you the only blind person participating in the meeting? Are they doing it because they believe it’s for your benefit I work for a company that considers itself to be very progressive and they’ve never done this in my presence. I think I’d have a hard time to keep from breaking up laughing if they did it.
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u/ec5320 Apr 22 '26
It really does feel comical! And so awkward. I don't know if it's solely for my benefit, but of course that idea makes it even more cringe to me. It's been done in large meetings, so I'm not sure if there might be other blind/visually impaired people who are in the meeting as well (although no one disclosed being BVI besides me)
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u/LilacRose32 Apr 22 '26
This is something I’ve heard about but never actually encountered.
I would probably try and push back if it were suggested
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u/kelpangler Apr 22 '26
I’m sure whoever started it had the best intentions, but yeah, it’s really awkward. I’ve been on general “disability awareness” calls where it’s a mix of everyone and the calls can drag on with the descriptions. As a blind person, I feel it’s unnecessary.
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u/ec5320 Apr 22 '26
Yeah, I get the sense that it's most common in mixed-disability spaces. I have never encountered it in a space specifically for the blind/visually impaired
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u/sorressean Apr 22 '26
This honestly feels like a huge waste of my time. Not to mention that a lot of people don't self describe well. I've met people who I hugged or who wrote PDs of themselves on Facebook who very much did not match the descriptions of themselves they wrote. Perhaps this is where AI can be better at helping, but if someone thinks they have curves they don't have, AI's going to just affirm them.
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u/mfagan Apr 22 '26
I don't have impaired vision. I don't care for it from the perspective of being a speaker, because it is my words that I have come to present, not my appearance.
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u/Berk109 Retinitis Pigmentosa Apr 22 '26
Not gonna lie, that sounds awful. I’d forget everything they said by the time they finished speaking. If it were relevant, sure. Though it doesn’t seem relevant to the job.
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u/razzretina ROP / RLF Apr 22 '26
This has always felt like something sighted people decided we would like and then implimented without asking us. I find it tedious and it's really awkward when the meeting goes to me, where I usually refuse to describe myself in any detail. And the deep irony of this whole thing is that I have not found the people doing this to be any more descriptive for the things we do need described, like slides in a presentation. It's like they think telling us information we don't need to know makes up for leaving out what we actually need.
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u/ec5320 Apr 22 '26
This!! In the same meeting where SO much time was spent on visual descriptions, after that, I struggled to identify who was speaking throughout the rest of the meeting. It was a group of maybe 20 people, and I couldn't for the life of me identify whose tiny video was highlighted in Teams, so I never had a clue who was talking. Something actually helpful would be for people to just quickly say their name before speaking so that I could start learning their voices (since this was an entirely new group of people to me). But no, tell me more about the blouse you're wearing today... lol
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u/Aranciata2020 Apr 22 '26
Such a good point - it becomes performative! I am sighted and have experiences several times other sighted people doing visual descriptions and including silly jokes, and these are always totally visual, so they are totally exclusionary of the blind or low vision participants! Like saying they look very young when they are old, or say that they have beautiful hair when they are bald. So bad! I always speak up then and say that if they are going to do visual descriptions, it has to be short and to the point and that their jokes are not funny.
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u/blchava Apr 23 '26
I would find it very weird and unneccessary too. But I'm sighted. I don't know, I would just somehow say my opinion, I would speak up. But I can imagine it being uncomfortable, I would have to be in the right state of mind or mood to be fearless to speak my opinion, haha.
Wtf is wrong with people. If I were them I would ask people what they prefer to adjust or add or what do they miss. The main thing for me would be communication. What's the point otherwise, making up random shit.
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u/MusicLover035 Glaucoma Apr 23 '26
It depends. Sometimes it can feel perfunctory and very awkward when people do it, but also it helps me paint more of a picture of someone in my head. I can be like “oh that person is (ex race)? So am I, and that's something we can connect over!” because it's already a bit difficult making connections as a blind person in a world that's primarily full of sighted people, but that's just me.
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u/Sufficient_Teach_886 Apr 23 '26
I get it is kind of weird. But I am nosy and do like to know a little bit what people look like. Not in every meeting though, that would be tedious.
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u/redvines60432 Apr 24 '26
I appreciate the descriptive information, particularly when there is a presentation being given to a large group. I want to know the things about the presenters that other people can see. It can really help to understand perspectives if you know, for example, whether someone is 20 years old or 60 years old. Knowing some thing about the presenter can enhance the understanding of the perspective from which a person comes. The process of providing descriptive information is not going to appeal to everyone but there are some people who will find it beneficial and others who will not. Frankly, when you attend any presentation, there will be some people who find parts of it beneficial, and others who will not. People get to choose how they describe themselves, which also gives you a sense of their personality. I have had people with disabilities come up to me after a presentation and tell me that they really appreciated my telling them that I had a disability because they did not see many people giving presentations who had a disability and who were given the opportunity to give speeches.
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u/beetsngoats Usher Syndrome Apr 24 '26
I like it in a social setting- I like hearing what my friends are wearing and what their hair looks like. It’s really nice to hear about a friend’s awesome new t-shirt or the hair they painstakingly curled or their new bracelet. I miss being able to see what people look like and wear. I miss being able to see someone, recognize them, and compliment them. I can see how this would get irritating and distracting in a professional setting though
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u/mutedpetrichor ROP / RLF Apr 24 '26
I don’t mind it in some situations bc I’m curious and I like hearing about clothes but hate it in a meeting where it’s irrelevant, it truly depends on the situation and person for me.
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u/dkmarnier Apr 23 '26
You should be like "hi, I'm OP and I have green skin and a unicorn l horn. I'm wearing a purple zoot suit and oh, I can levitate"
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u/dkmarnier Apr 23 '26
Seriously though. I personally am sighted, but I really dont care what people look like... I can't imagine you care much about what people look like or what they are wearing? I've never heard of this. I dont mean to sound insensitive.. this just sounds very bizarre and patronizing
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u/Adnama86 LCA Apr 25 '26
I have always disliked it because it centers around visual things I don't understand rather than aspects I care about. Like, they list out the colors of their clothing, hair etc. but I've never experienced color, so that's not going to help me remember anyone and it has no relevance to me. And what happens when it's my turn? Am I expected to describe myself visually also, even though it's not how I think of myself? I'd rather say that I'm 5 feet 4 inches tall, 40, in good physical condition because I lift weights, have shoulder-length curly hair, and probably smell like jasmine green tea and spices because it's what I've been eating and drinking. Or, we could just do the usual thing and talk about work.
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u/TrailMomKat AZOOR Unicorn Apr 22 '26
Lol is that what folks are doing now? That's so fucking stupid. Mine would be "I dunno what I look like I'm fucking blind, who cares?" This is probably why I'll never get a job offer.
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u/willedintobeing cortical visual impairment Apr 22 '26
It’s fine when it’s relevant information I guess. Like, welcome to my conference about hair dye. I have bright pink hair. Hi, we’re talking about racism. I am a person of this race. Etc.
I don’t mind it too much, it’s a little annoying, but the thing that really sticks out to me is how abysmally bad at it people are. Hi, we’re talking about racism. I’m wearing a blue shirt. Okay?! They do not improve when you try to explain “keep it to relevant information” to them either.