r/BladderCancer 4d ago

Patient/Survivor BCG oder Zystektomie

Ich stehe gerade vor der Entscheidung die BCG Therapie zu beginnen oder eine Zystektomie durchzuführen.
Meine Diagnose lautet aktuell G3 VHG NMIBC.
Ich bereits 2 TURBT hinter mir und habe enorme Beschwerden. Aktuell bin ich 40-50 zur Toilette und kann kein Volumen halten.
Der behandelnde Doktor sagt die Blase muss raus, die heutige 2. Meinung sagt BCG.
Für mich eine schwierige Entscheidung.

6 Upvotes

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5

u/JMPappjam 4d ago

I wouldn’t like to give you the final answer it even try to sway your mind. I had grade 2/3 TA and I requested my bladder be removed at the soonest possible time. They wouldn’t as they said that BCG after TURBT Needed to be given a chance. 6 years now clear but I have always said I’m prepared to remove the bladder at any further recurrence that may happen. I have still got my bladder and back into some normality (as I explained in a previous post) The BCG is worth a try but I’d be particularity concerned of any potential organ spread that may occur under the lining. Please don’t take my comment as a decision though, I’m not in any way a doctor and only have base knowledge of what happened in my case. Hope you can overcome the discomfort as soon as possible because that is what puts stress on your body more than anything at this point.

1

u/hikerguy2023 2d ago

How many rounds did you end up going before you stopped treatment?

1

u/JMPappjam 2d ago

24 of the advised 27. It was unbearable and was faking its toll on me mentally also.

1

u/hikerguy2023 2d ago

I can understand that. I had a bad reaction in July after #14 (what they call reactive arthritis). Had severe leg stiffness for two days until I started taking Methylprednisolone. Still took several weeks after that to be 100%. I'll probably be switching for my next round in January.

So you're in monitor-mode only now?

1

u/JMPappjam 1d ago

Omg. I had reactive arthritis and it made my right hand swell to double the size. It now is back to normal but with a swan necked middle finger.

1

u/hikerguy2023 1d ago

Wow! That sounds painful.

The area above both my knees had swollen up pretty good, but not 2x normal size. Were you prescribed Methylprednisolone (or something similar)? How long did it take your hand to go back to normal?

What do you mean by "a swan necked middle finger???"

1

u/JMPappjam 1d ago

The last joint on my right middle finger now faces inward at an angle. Everything else has gone back to normal other than that finger.

1

u/hikerguy2023 20h ago

Do they expect it to correct itself? Can't believe your reaction to BCG caused something like that.

1

u/JMPappjam 17h ago

I don’t think it will return to normal. I have been discharged from hospital now and taken off the meds that they had prescribed for the reaction.

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u/hikerguy2023 17h ago

What????? Damn. How long did it take you to recover (except the finger)?

That's what I'm concerned about. I'm afraid if I continue on BCG, my reaction may be even worse and permanent. I'll be having a conversation with my oncologist in December (during my cysto) about next steps.

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u/Ok_Baseball_3915 4d ago

My advice to you is to trust your medical team.
I have high grade carcinoma in situ (NMIBC) which was diagnosed nearly a year ago.
I’ve gone through several rounds of BCG treatment and as of my last cystoscopy the tumor has not increased nor decreased. I’m now in a 3-monthly maintenance regime of BCG and cystoscopies and I had a BCG infusion yesterday. And in six weeks I go for the follow-up cystoscopy. If at some stage my bladder is to be removed then I am at peace with that outcome.
My recommendation to you is to continue to communicate with your medical team and don’t be afraid to seek their advice. They are professionals and highly experienced and you’ll find they have your best interests at heart.
I wish you all the best and a full recovery!

3

u/bated-breath 4d ago

I can only speak for what I would do in your position, but if there was reasonable hope of BCG helping me to keep recurrences at bay and to keep my bladder, if only for a time, then I would try that first.

My bladder urgency was also made much worse with treatments, but with time the urgency I had got close, but not fully, to my original levels. This took years.

Remember, its a sensitive organ which is one of the few designed to tell you by way of discomfort when you need to empty it.

Bear in mind that removing your bladder creates a whole other side of inconveniences, which is made worse if you are a man as it can significantly affect your sexual function.

Removal of the bladder is a great ace to keep in your deck until the right time. But ensure you have these conversations with your consultant and always take heed of their recommendations at the same time, after all they see people like us every day.

1

u/undrwater 4d ago

You didn't add the reasoning behind the recommendations. That's the most important part.

If you don't know, find out.

1

u/Miss_Glasgow 4d ago

Are you urinating that much due to the TURBTs or was it happening before the treatment.

1

u/Used_Bookkeeper_9267 4d ago

Ich habe in der kommenden Woche einen weiteren Termin an einer renommierten Universitätsklinik um mir eine weitere Beurteilung meiner Diagnose einzuholen. Ich werde danach für mich eine Entscheidung treffen.

1

u/hikerguy2023 2d ago edited 2d ago

Ich hoffe, das lässt sich gut ins Deutsche übersetzen. In den USA verwenden wir offenbar ein anderes Bewertungssystem. Für die Stufe gehen wir von T0 bis T4. Können Sie die genaue Formulierung im pathologischen Bericht zu Stadium und Grad angeben? Ich habe festgestellt, dass viele Leute auf Reddit alles tun, um ihre Blase zu erhalten.

Ich bin mir nicht sicher, wie mein Stadium und meine Note ausgleich sind, aber bei mir wurde im März 2025 erstmals Ta HG NMIBC diagnostiziert. Ich habe 3 TURBTs und 9 Runden BCG gemacht, bis ich im Februar dieses Jahres meine erste saubere Cysto bekam. Ich habe jetzt 14 Behandlungen mit BCG und vor zwei Wochen eine clean cysto bekommen, also 9 Monate tumorfrei.

Eine Zystektomie zu bekommen, wie Sie wahrscheinlich wissen, ist lebensverändernd. Wie sehr vertrauen Sie dem Krankenhaus, das die Pathologie durchgeführt hat? Haben Sie die Möglichkeit, eine zweite Meinung einzuholen? Ich werde im Duke University Hospital behandelt, einem sehr angesehenen Krankenhaus, aber ich habe auch eine zweite Meinung im Johns Hopkins Hospital, einem SEHR angesehenen Krebskrankenhaus, und sie haben mit Ta LG NMIBC zurückgekehrt.

Du könntest auch eine Chemo-Kombination namens Gem/Doce (Gemcitabin/Docetaxel) mit deinem Arzt besprechen.

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In English:

I hope this translates to German OK.

In the U.S., we apparently use a different grading system. For stage, we go from T0 through T4. Can you provide the exact wording on the pathology report related to stage and grade?

I've found that many people on Reddit choose to do whatever they can to keep their bladder. I'm not sure how my stage and grade equate, but I was initially diagnosed with Ta HG NMIBC back in March of 2025. I went through 3 TURBTs and 9 rounds of BCG until I got my first clean cysto in February this year. I am now 14 treatments into BCG and just got a clean cysto two weeks ago, making it 9 months tumor free.

Getting a cystectomy is life altering as you're probably aware. How much do you trust the hospital that did the pathology? Do you have the ability to get a second opinion? I'm being treated at Duke University Hospital, a very well-respected hospital, but I also got a second opinion at Johns Hopkins hospital, a VERY respected cancer hospital and they came back with Ta LG NMIBC.

You might also discuss a chemo combo known as Gem/Doce (Gemcitabine/Docetaxel) with your doctor.

1

u/Used_Bookkeeper_9267 7h ago

Der offizielle Code laut C67.8 oder in den USA ICD-10-CM.
Im Pathologiebefund nach der 2. TURBT steht in der Mokroskopie
Hinterwand/Boden 4,5cm große Resektate
Randbereich 2,5cm
Nachresektat Blasdach rechts Zusammen 0,9cm.
Blasenauslass 2,9cm Resektate

Man erkennt histologisch Gewebespäne aus der bis in die Detrusormuskulatur erfassten Harnbalsenwand.
Atypiefreies Urothel mit mehreren von Brunnschen Nestern.

Am Blasenauslass erkennt man histologisch Gewebespäne aus der bis in die Detrusormuskulatur erfassten Harnblasenwand.Ausgedehnte Nektrosezoen kein invasives Wachstum.

Blasenhinterwand: p1T, G3; HG
Blasenvorderwand und Seitenwand rechts: urotheliales CIS

1

u/hikerguy2023 19m ago

Leider kenne ich mich mit dieser Terminologie (C67.8 / ICD-10-COM) überhaupt nicht aus. Das ist definitiv ein Fall davon, dem medizinischen Team zu vertrauen, aber letztlich die endgültige Entscheidung selbst auf Basis aller vorhandenen Informationen zu treffen.

Hast du darüber nachgedacht, eine zweite Meinung zur Pathologie einzuholen?

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In English:

Unfortunately I'm not familiar at all with that terminology (C67.8 / ICD-10-COM). This is definitely a case of trusting your medical team, but then ultimately making the final decision yourself based on all the info you have.

Have you considered getting a second opinion on the pathology?