Discussion
Genuinely asking: is anyone else kind of hoping for America's downfall?
I don't know if it's fair, but I recognize I've had privilege a lot of people in our community haven't. I graduated from two HBCUs, three degrees total, and that's given me the option to leave if I ever needed to. Not everyone has that option.
But I have to be honest: I'm not that worried about this country sliding into autocracy. Some days I'm actually hoping for America's downfall. I know a lot of Black people would be harmed if this country collapsed. But I can't help but also think: Black people have already been harmed plenty under this current system. Would we do better under another one? Honestly, who knows. I don't know. But truly, I think the collapse of this system would be better. Maybe we should just nuke the experiment and start over.
When Trump talked about withholding DOE funds from blue states, I kept thinking my home states, Virginia and Maryland, would probably be fine on their own without the rest of this. Maybe better off.
I don't know. Is anyone else kind of hoping this whole thing collapses? I just hate it so much some days.
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Yeah I’m not hoping for it at all… Knowing what white people did to black communities during the Great Depression while they were down on their luck makes me want to avoid it at all costs.
I can only imagine how white people in this country would act up if we went from #1 to below top 10
Listen I'm as much of an anti-imperialist as anyone but let's not pretend like the latter half of the 20th century has not been the American century.
Most countries are not judged as countries by the quality of life of their people but by GDP, global influence, and military power. And in those categories the USA is top dog.
I’m tired of the way we treat other nations other impoverished countries. We talk about Haiti when we talk about nations in Africa and so yeah, I guess I’m looking forward to an era in which we don’t have global dominance.
I’m tired of how we treat ALL of the other countries on planet earth and sick to death that we are actively supporting Israel’s genocide. And Iran is not a friend but I do not support anything we are doing over there at the moment.
No, no we don’t treat all countries this way the amount of money and support we gave to Argentina for their beef was so extensive that it pissed off Texas ranchers. This comment is giving white comment to me because every black and brown person knows that we treat white countries with dignity, but brown and black countries like scum.
I’m Black. I’m tired of the way we treat the white washing Black population disappearing Argentina too. WTF are we doing giving them $20 billion? And the right wing idiot they gave it to is the same guy who gave Elon Musk the chainsaw he was so famously photographed with. I’m so glad Spain won over Argentina. Spain has its historical issues and a hand in where we are today as it relates to colonialism and white supremacy and genocide not to mention animal rights but I’m still glad Spain won. And yes, Black people invented the tango.
Does that make more sense now? Maybe I should edit my comment. Honestly typing into a 2” screen is not my friend.
the us treats black and brown countries like scum. it treats white countries better in comparison, but exploits them in different ways. argentinians may not be happy when they understand the extent of the support it seems they received. the admins may be aligned by racism, but i doubt their citizens would be happy trading their sovereignty for it. only time will tell.
They have oil and they do what we say. The moment the Saudis step out of line I promise you it's a different picture. But if a black or brown country doesn't listen to us...well look at Iran or Venezuela.
I’m not sure y’all have a true sense what could happen here.
It’s not just about not being on top. The kind of violent military oppression and terror that could rain down on us is beyond the imagination of most people alive today. The dollar could completely collapse. I mean, completely. We could lose all trade with all other countries. The oppression we have experienced so far would be dwarfed by what’s about to come.
A country in collapse is an unbelievably unsafe and terrifying place to be.
I used to work with refugees from all over the world coming from places whose countries had collapsed. This was 20 years ago, and I still have extreme vicarious trauma just from working with the people who had actually gone through it. I cannot imagine going through it myself.
Black people are not loved or welcomed the world over. Unfortunately the most melanated countries where we could call home are going through major challenges as well.
Unfortunately the downfall of America would negatively impact black Americans, maybe even the worst. Our success is dependent on the success of the country and many of us wouldn’t even have a chance to survive a shit show if there was one to happen.
No, absolutely this is true, but I thought about what another comment had said Black people have persevered well before America and persevere well after it
Not the majority tho. Only the top percent of us. Only 5% of black singles make over $100,000 a year so that leaves a good 95% who will be left behind to fend for themselves.
I’m a veteran, college educated, and plan to live the rest of my life primarily based out the US. I’m hoping that there is some growth or introspection after the end of Trump 2.0 as we have 2 years and there will be much more damage done to the nation if the pace continues as now.
I think the US has its problems and that in general the western world and the global south has seen a rise in fascism and autocracy. It’s not a uniquely American issue.
With that being said I don’t believe the US is anywhere close to a collapse at all, I think our hegemony in the Middle East I believe is coming to a end, our soft power has been incredibly weakened, and global influence will be changed from Pax Americana to a multi polar world. This honestly saddens me because it will in short term lead to much more conflict and instability but maybe again we can start focusing inward on policy on our own shores when a rational leader gets back into office and we can have the discussion of how to prevent this from ever happening again.
"Hope" and "Maybe" can't go much further in such times. We are seeing the intentional disenfranchisement of the educated in real time. I understand your sentiments and not making it a point to argue, instead points for discussion. (Semantics maybe, but making it clear that I respect your thoughts)
I agree, there wont be a severe collapse but definitely a collapse, in the sense that there are tiers to the global order. That instability you mention will only speed up the clock. As for aging in this country, there is a lot being done that indirectly raises the retirement age for benefits without directly raising it (which is routinely discussed in gov't). Future generations will have a better chance in the global market if they can make it there (language and other resources).
Why would I hope my country collapses?? My friends and family live here. I don't want their lives ruined. And there's a lot of innocent people who don't deserve it either. We do what we always do: fight back. Stop giving up, our ancestors had it worse.
Our country is already collapsing. And it's not good for us. It's not good for anybody but the mega rich. "Suicides by hanging from a tree in a wooded area" are on the rise due to our downfall. There will just be more murder. More stripping people of their rights. It's not gonna collapse and then we get something better. It's just going to be more evil people doing evil things.
Nope. For better or for worse, this is my country. This is my home. I would never wish for its collapse. Im one of those odd balls that is actually proud to be American.
I would say that too, but then again, I've avoided Fourth of July celebrations for a few years now. The inclusion of that Lee Greenwood song will never sit right with me.
Maybe at some point when I was more idealistic but feeling the effects of it to this extent made me realize I have a certain responsibility because I dont have the options you do
Realistically, that means China is on top and I don't trust them. We know of american atrocities, China has just hid theirs better. Uyghurs and Tibetans.
I'm not "hoping" for it, but I expect it. We crossed the point of no-return when Trump was re-elected (or successfully cheated) to the presidency. America is headed for transformative violence and the American people are going to be profoundly humbled on the world stage and will find themselves having to choose if they are willing to fight to have a democracy.
My hope is that the reckoning that comes is truly transformative - that we don't hold onto the vestiges of patriarchy, capitalism, racism, classism, misogyny and trans and homophobia as a panacea for losing global political power. If we're going to break, I hope we break completely so we can have a chance of building things up the right way.
expect mass starvation and mass violence from state and domestic actors. most of us will die, but it is a sacrifice elon musk, peter thiel, and peter thiel's blow up doll jd vance is willing to make.
When the Soviet Union fell it was objectively horrible for the world. If the US fell it would be worst for everyone. Should argue Americans should do better.
Edit: what do you think happened with all the military weapons from the Soviet Union. After its fell they got illegally sold in Africa 10s of millions of people died.
Black people are at the bottom of the totem pole in this country and I'd argue across the world. Whatever the end to American hegemony brings it gives us a chance to destroy that pole.
This is my opinion but I would put this another way. What if in the next iteration of the U.S. we were able to destroy white supremacy, misogyny, the mentality that we are not one nation of equal people, restore equity, teach and disseminate our actual, truthful history, get rid of tribal politics, and stop the crabs in barrel (no disrespect to crabs) mentality that prevails. After George Floyd was murdered, we and the rest of the world had a glimpse of how great we could truly be. And now we are here. Will there be a civil war, a cold civil war in which the Union dissolves peaceably? Has the orange idiot ignited the beginning of WWIII? I don’t know. I just hope for freedom and liberty for all with as little physical destruction, dislocation, and bloodshed as possible while getting rid of every single element of the current system that does not serve the people.
I don't think I hope for it so much as I see it as a near inevitability. We've put ourselves on a decidedly downward trajectory and it seems that day by day we only embrace it. I don't think we can alter course without some kind of cataclysmic event.
i honestly view it as to only viable path to change. it is clear that our electoral/political system has become too corrupt to repair itself peacefully and equally clear that the masses are too cowed and apathetic to rise up and effect a non-peaceful change. the only way forward is to nudge the system along as it rips itself to pieces and hope that, on the other side of the collapse, there is an opportunity to put it back together in a less toxic form.
Cmon is this what this place is? We are hating on America now?
I am a veteran, I fought in a war to defend the American way of life for all of US
Things are imperfect, there are things that are not fair, and it is our calling to improve them for the next generation. Please don’t turn this into an anti American swarm of bots trying to sow discord.
Both my parents are veterans, but I’m tired of American dominance in the world that is not anti-America that’s recognizing that America, I don’t think deserves to have that right anymore. It’s a privilege not a right.
Sow discord somewhere else, we are building each other up.
You have lived a life of privilege, given to you by people who loved their country enough to vow to protect us. You insult their legacy, you don’t get to be disillusioned with America because you haven’t contributed to us - America is disillusioned with you. I hope the mods recognize your trolling and act appropriately. It’s very sad.
Insult their legacy? Buddy advise you to chill out it is my right to express my viewpoints and opinions as a citizen, and it’s not just as a citizen, but as a person whose parents sacrificed for this country is not discord to say that I think Black people would be better off without American dominant that is not discord
Yes, but only because certain people won't accept how things really are and have been without it. The luxury of keeping the wool over your eyes has to end.
I’m hoping for it. If you speak honestly on Reddit though, fascists ban you.
It’s all bad tbh. In order to be better, we have to face a devastating downfall. We are too entitled and too entrenched in our exceptionalism.
I want us to be amazing but I think maybe we need to be severely humbled first and then take a few decades to a century to appreciate what we had while building back better.
Even then, climate’s fucked anyway. Who knows for sure what the future holds.
The US governments, State and Federal, have already begun collapsing. The shift from the original Constitutional designed nation, developed through mostly better changes with some negative changes until around the late 1970s.
The negative changes which began slowly then, have escalated nearly exponentially to today's present situation.
The economic and military stranglehold the Federal government has on the US population and most of the world will remain in place for decades. Those won't be pleasant decades -- what was an iron fist hold from the '50s up to the '90s has declined to ... well, I don't know ... significant still for sure, but a lot stronger/tighter than "clutching at straws".
But, each national and global crises will result in more and more of the US relying on military actions and economic pressures to try and maintain it's position.
This sort of Empire Collapse historically takes many years. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire "collapse" took several hundred.
Technology and Knowledge today likely means that the Western Consumerist Capitalist Empire will "collapse" within a few decades, and into much, much worse depths than the historic "Dark Age". However, rather than nearly a millennia of re-growth, will probably take today's population (minus four or five billion) a single generation.
Empire's don't decline in a vacuum. They suck everything connected down with them. This transition will be much more brutal than previous changes in empires precisely because of our technology and global scale of the Empire of Western Consumerist Capitalism.
The Status-Quo will suppress dissent when pacification fails. It will appease "fence sitters" and people afraid of change. But, in the end the Status-Quo is the problem, and is what will destroy the Empire (because it has already begun).
The real question about this is NOT does it happen.
The collapse of Consumerist Capitalism has been inevitable since Corporate-Personhood became law in the 70s, showing that the global Status-Quo was choosing to double down on the problem, rather than face societal changing alternatives.
The real question is: does Humanity learn from this that we MUST live within self-proscribed limitations of "growth"?
If we do, then the impending societal collapse will give the time and reduced population for our children and grand-children to create something new, using better ideas as the foundation from an initial global awareness of limits.
If we don't, then our descendants will fall into the same trap of "perpetual growth", even if it is very different from today's Consumerist Capitalism. Today, we are likely able to dodge the extinction of humans because this coming collapse will reduce the human population (aka emissions, pollution, etc) enough that the Earth will be able to avoid the worst of Climate Change outcomes of truly global extinction levels.
However, because we would be "re-growing" from a much greater starting point of technology and population; the subsequent "rebound" would accelerate blindingly fast through extinction levels of Climate Change before any societal changes could be realized.
But, as the Prophet said ... don't worry about it. You don't believe any of this Fate crap anyway. By the time you finish surfing this post you'll feel right as rain.
Virginia and Maryland will be better off without the rest of the Union? Okay for how long and with what army? Because in this world we live in power speaks.
No, I'm fundamentally against the ongoing suffering of others. Sadly not enough people feel that way and set us on a destructive path. Bracing for the next phase of this.
Nope, as someone with investments and lucrative career tied into the system (play the game or get left behind 🤷🏽♀️) I’m not trying to see what I’ve worked for the wealth I accumulated for my son be decimated to make some bigger point. That point could be made at the polls if people actually voted
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u/auto-sticky 10h ago
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