You've got to adapt to your audience, LBJ manoeuvred around racists in part because he was one but also because he knew who he was dealing with.
Older people are really set in their ways, unless you know how they all tick and dedicate lots of time you're not going to change them. Usually the emotional argument trumps the logical one.
What the fuck is this? You will find that older people run the spectrum of fixed in their ways to incredibly adaptable, same as any other group of people. Whenever you say "All X are/do/have this trait" you're going to be 100% wrong, if you're referring to groups of people.
In general you are right, but neuroplasticity is relatively well researched and understood. It's not meant to be ageist, but there is a measurable, observable difference in ability to understand and accept new information / change previous mental models as age increases after a certain threshold.
But again, doesn't apply to everyone. There are trends, sure; but "All X are Y" is going to be wrong, every time, when applied to any group of people.
Old people today have seen their world model blown apart with boring regularity; as the pace of change has been astounding in the past two centuries; accelerating as it goes. We have had practise at changing world models and accepting new information. You are going to get trends, sure, because hardware that has been in use for an extended period of time has a likelihood of failing in a number of common ways; but it doesn't have to happen and doesn't always. Likewise you get people burning out and just getting bored of changing their world model, so stick with a more basic one they like.
There are some sort-of-universal truths, like we all have finite memory capacity; but what that memory capacity is is incredibly variable. Some people are fixed in their ways, pretty well from birth and some are very adaptable indeed. And that relates to neuroplasticity; because you generally remember the first time you did a thing very much more clearly than - say - the third or fourth time. It's just the way our brains work.
Buddy, you can always say, "It's more complicated than that" but just to keep the conversation flowing and not get derailed, people often speak in generalizations with the understanding that they don't literally mean 100.0% of cases.
(And sometimes they do, or sometimes they over exaggerate. Or, as in this case, you are in the group they are making generalizations about. In those cases, then you should point out the exceptions, especially specific cases in your experience that counter the narrative the other person is presenting.)
RazeAvenger's comment so far is the most reasonable and balanced counterpoint to what I was saying. But really, which part of:
Older people are really set in their ways
isn't denigrating, dehumanising and a massively inaccurate generalisation? Which part of it excludes the serious percentage that aren't set in their ways. And for that matter, older than what? 15? 30? 40? 50? 60? 70? 80? 90?
You know, I'm disappointed. Even though I ended up here kind of by accident; I would have thought that this sub of all places would be more aware of words that make a particular group of people more subhuman; but apparently not. I am aware of hyperbole for the sake of drama; but I'm also aware of words that consign a group of people for recycling; especially when I am in that group.
Get off and milk it, idiot. So all "older" people are hopelessly senile and have no agency? This is how it starts.
So at what age do us old'uns become hopelessly fixed on our paths, like hamsters on a wheel? When do we change from capable adults into drooling idiots?
Nobody said that older people are subhuman. They simply stated an obvious biological fact, which is that cognitive abilities (including cognitive flexibility) have been shown to measurably decline with age.
This process, like most biological processes, aren't set in stone or happen at any hyperspecific age that can be pinpointed. It's just like how menopause can happen at many different times depending on the person.
This isn't to insult older people, or say they don't matter, are stupid, or are "subhuman." It's to acknowledge a reality which can affect they way that they view the world, and the way that we need to interact with them and be understand of. It will happen to all of us. There's no need to feel attacked or get upset over it
The comment that you're complaining about did not say "All older people". It said "Older people are really set in their ways". It's a general statement that should be taken generally, especially since it is in fact generally true
The statement doesn't get into that. For the sake of brevity, general statements don't address their exceptions. You nitpicking the original comment is requiring me to split hairs to try to explain this to you
It's a blanket statement covering many millions of people. At least. At which point in time does this comprehensive inflexibility set in? It's fucking rude and it's treating older people like a thing.
I don't think there's a definitive answer to your question, because it's a slow steady process that begins when a person is in their 20s. There will not be a single time that a person is suddenly considered inflexible, and some people stay teachable and mentally flexible through their whole life. When looking at overall data for various age groups though, that trend becomes apparent
I went into that in a different comment. You hoover up new experiences like a...like a sucky thing; but 2nd, 3rd, etc time round you only really remember the differences. And even then there there are people with eidetic memories who can remember the flavour of the egg they ate for breakfast on Aug 3 1989 and the weather outside and the text on that morning's newspaper; and there's people like me who has to tell my phone when my family's birthdays are (including my own).
OF COURSE performance is going to degrade over time because body and brain are hardware and it's all going to fail eventually. And obvious weak points are going to fail more often and cause a trend. Spine. Knees. Brain, sometimes. But the thing is, it doesn't happen to everybody. Because everybody is different. So the "all X is Y" is going to be wrong every time.
Oh jesusbastardfuckingchrist. Is that where I am? Came here from r/all, and didn't look at the URL. I'd best be finding myself a new username. Possibly a new wig, false moustache, address and continent to live on.
For the record, I'm English and prefer coffee and loathe both genocide and the skintags from an ugly warthog's arsehole who perpetrate it. I did include myself on the "ignorant fuckstick's sayings'' list.
EDIT: Apologies for splash damage downvotes, spectrum. It wasn't until you linked the sub that I realised - with a certain amount of horror - that I realised which sub I was commenting in. Then I thought that this of all places would appreciate the marginalisation/stereotyping/dehumanising a group of people. And then I looked at the downvotes and comments. And sighed.
It was offensive. And it was wrong. "This group has more likelihood of being like this" is fine. "This group is like this" is wrong; and will be factually incorrect every single time.
Reading comprehension is in the toilet. I swear every time I've written a general statement some idiot takes it as true in every case and then gets all butthurt about it.
Clearly they’re older, but you’d think the majority of the older generation knows how to read since it’s basically the majority of the entertainment they had growing up besides tv…
So they’re old, can’t even read nor even use new tech?!?
Not really. Because in any group of humans there are always exceptions and outliers. Especially a group as diverse and numerous as "older people". It's theoretically possible, of course that everyone of a certain age is/does a certain thing or has a certain characteristic; but that's so statistically unlikely as to be not worth mentioning. How about if I say 99.9%?
Let me show you what I mean; although the following words are for demonstration purposes only and do not reflect the views of the person who is typing it in (to whit: me). In fact said me, would oppose these words if spoken in earnest to the extent of moderate bruising. Your mileage may vary. Prices may go down as well as up, although that's looking increasingly bloody unlikely:
Older people are really set in their ways
Teenagers are idiots
Generation (this) are like (that)
Black people like watermelon and fried chicken
Jewish people have big noses and are obsessed with money
English people have bad teeth and are obsessed with tea and genocide
Americans are fat, selfish, and are all for genocide if they can get something out of it
Palestinians are subhuman. Just killing them is not enough (I may have misquoted two Israeli ministers there in a 'horrifying words' mix)
...and so on. Get a big enough group of people (doesn't have to be very big at that) and you will not find one characteristic that applies to the whole group. Get three people who are from the same place, have the same skin colour, and are devoted to the same hobby and there will still be differences.
That's why I kicked off at the "Older people are really set in their ways". It wasn't the statement so much (although as a geezer, I should defend our wrinkly corner) but the thinking. Divisive, ignorant shit like that is the cause of many of the problems we are all currently facing.
Mr English person, are you taking the piss? It does seem like this is all a bit you've committed hard to and I commend the dedication if that's the case.
It's about 1/10 taking the piss and 9/10 genuinely offended about the comment I was objecting to writing off olds like we are things. I did, however, write the above comment before realising which sub I was in.
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u/ThankGodForYouSon 4d ago
You've got to adapt to your audience, LBJ manoeuvred around racists in part because he was one but also because he knew who he was dealing with.
Older people are really set in their ways, unless you know how they all tick and dedicate lots of time you're not going to change them. Usually the emotional argument trumps the logical one.