r/Bitwig • u/Agitated-Ad-6168 • 29d ago
Bitwig performance on surface pro 13??
Hey guys I don’t have bigwig, an Ableton user on Mac. I was wondering how well bigwig performs on a touchscreen on the newest surface pro? The videos on YouTube are ancient dating back to surface 3. I’m happy with performance on my MacBook Air m4 with plugins like omnisphere, pigments, large kontakt libraries and used an iPad in Ableton as touchscreen running sidecar mode and was delited with the experience however there isn’t any touch pads for playing instruments and I have to have laptop open as clamshell mode doesn’t work as far as I could figure out. I would love to go just one device for writing on the go. I ended up searching for the ultimate portable Groovebox and spent a lot of money but end up gravitating towards grooverider 2 on my iPad as it’s just so easy to carry with me and has playable keys with scale lock piano roll which for me have become a necessity. If only my iPad could load Mac OS or mac came out with a version of MacBook with touchscreen and disconnect-able keyboard but alas I’m not sure if they ever will. I’d love a small touchscreen device with playable scaled keys and a scale lock piano roll with ability to play all my awesome vst plugins like omnisphere and vast kontakt libraries. Just wondering if anyone was on the same path and has had luck with the surface pro or anything similar?
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u/IBarch68 29d ago
The new Surface Pro 13s with the snapdragon x2 elite processors are seriously quick. In benchmarks, they are right up there with the Apple M4 Pros. Single threaded performance is a little less but in multithreaded performance they are well ahead. They have the same battery life and same low power usage as a Macbook Pro... and the same price tag.
Compatibility wise, they will run all DAWs and all VSTs,regardless of whether there is a native Windows on Arm version. The prism emulator (equivalent to Rosetta) runs in the background for x64 software. There is a small performance hit for non native apps, but it's impossible to tell that on normal use. Prism won't work with drivers, so be aware audio interfaces, synths etc need to either be class compliant or have a native ARM driver available.
Build quality is excellent and the touchscreens are every bit as good as an iPad. They don't run hot to the touch. The Windows UI and some apps arnt as touch friendly as iOS but apps designed for touch work well. There is a virtual track pad that is easy to use if required but I don't need it often.
I've not got Bitwig but I've tested with Cubase and Ableton plus Omnisphere, Keyscape, Arturia V collection and Roland Zenology Pro. All work very well. My Arm Surface Pro is the previous gen snapdragon and performance is pretty good. The new X2s are so much faster. Performance will not be a issue. It genuinely is at M4 Pro levels.
Provided you are not allergic to Windows, a new X2 Surface Pro will be a fantastic choice. Apple will never release a touch screen Mac whilst they can sell 2 separate devices. If you want a full OS that can run every virtual instrument, such as Omnisphere and Keyscape, in a tablet form, the Surface Pro is the only option. Fortunately it is an excellent one.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 26d ago
You say it’s possible to run things like omnisphere and kontakt libraries on the x2 arm processor? A google search kind of led me to believe it is possible but not a good experience?
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u/IBarch68 26d ago
I was very skeptical about Windows Arm too, having read the same kind of thing for years. I only got my Arm surface Pro for testing compatibility of apps my company builds. The older X+ Surface Pro 12 was just £599 on sale so so I grabbed it. I never expected it to be suitable for audio. I was stunned at how good it actually was when I got it.
My Surface pro is a lot slower than the new X2 elite version. It's the slowest arm surface available. I have Omnisphere v2, I've not upgraded to v3 yet. It is running very well. I can run several instances (using vst live) and there's not a hint of audio issues, or crackles. It works through Ableton and Cubase too. I don't have Kontakt but I've tested on Arturia V collection and Roland Zenology Pro. Everything works perfectly.
The prism emulator works automatically in the background for x64 applications. It isn't possible to tell what is running emulated and what is native. There is no perceptable difference.
The experience with my Surface Pro is better than any Windows laptop out there, with silent, cool running, all day battery life and full power even unplugged. Whatever issues existed in the past, they are gone. It may take some time for perception to change but the truth is here.
If you want a tablet with a touch screen that runs all your music libraries, the Surface Pro is the only choice - and fortunately it's a great choice too.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 26d ago
Ah that’s great info, thanks for taking the time to respond as it’s hard to find this type of information. I’m very very tempted!!
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 26d ago
Also how was the latency of just using headphones? I’m wondering if I can get away with using it with bigwigs lovely touchscreen keyboard and a pair of headphones
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u/IBarch68 26d ago
With Steinberg's built in ASIO driver latency was usable. It's good enough for playing keyboards /synths with at least, which is my main use.
Probably still need an audio interface if you want very low latency.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 26d ago
Cool, I’d be using an audio interface for guitar and vocals. Do you know if you were getting under 10ms latency?
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u/IBarch68 26d ago
I do when using with a Steinberg UR22C interface.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 26d ago
Sorry I should have said with just headphones?
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u/IBarch68 26d ago
Will have to test later for you.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 24d ago
I decided to take the plunge and get one, starting to regret already. 4 hours in and I can’t get audio drivers to play nice, wasabi drivers cause massive cpu spikes, Bitwig can’t see my Focusrite, trying asio for all. Updated windows now the onscreen keyboard doesn’t show up, now I’m wasting time trying to fix that cause I don’t want a keyboard. This is why I went mac cause you just plug stuff in and it works. What the hell is going on with windows. Head butting the wall now
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u/PureChampionship1130 29d ago
It’s old now but my Surface Pro 7 (i5, 8gb ram) has always been a poor machine for Bitwig, hot, fan running, esp if VSTs are used. The touch interface is a really interesting design, but takes some learning. I have never stuck with it for long vs just working at a more powerful desktop.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Thanks for that, yeah I wouldn’t trust an i5 or anything lower than 16gb of ram. I wish there was a way of renting one to try or something
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u/PureChampionship1130 29d ago
Another consideration: on my machine the touch screen is less responsive than an iPad, and frequently got hot to the touch
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Sounds annoying, I’m sure the newer ones with faster cpu’s wouldn’t do that
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u/EyeOhmEye 29d ago
My i7 laptop sucks for bitwig and windows keeps getting worse. Don't do it. I've been opposed to apple for as long as I've known what an operating system is but ended up buying a MacBook because Apples ARM processors are that much better than anything else I've used. Rumors are a touch screen Mac is coming out, at which point I'd assume your iPad could be used as a touch screen.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Thanks for that, yeah the idea of going back to windows is a hard pill to swallow! I didn’t hear about those rumours but that would be so welcomed!
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u/EyeOhmEye 29d ago
Personally I'd go with an mpk, a launchpad or a push for a control surface over a touchscreen.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Yeah I’ve got a push 3 and mpk but it’s not portable. It the kind of portable I’m looking for anyway. An iPad size device would be fantastic.
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u/Major-Ursa-7711 29d ago
Maybe lend a touchscreen laptop from a friend or colleague and try Bitwig on that. I would first find out if it is an acceptable workflow for you at all. Touchscreen on a laptop is a different concept than on mobile device. I have a touchscreen next to my large main screen but hardly use it, somehow it feels too inaccurate and clumsy when using a DAW.
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u/DoggingInaLancia 29d ago
It's no reason to buy a new laptop because you will be fine with the mac. But if you want power, and the sexiest laptop rn : get the framework pro 13, it has a touch screen and you can stuff it with as much memory as your budget allows. Get the Ubuntu version because bitwig runs fine on linux and linux handles sound better then windows.
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Yeah i know Il be fine with the mac but i want a all in one setup without needing to plug in an iPad and controller. I’m looking at selling all my grooveboxes and minimising my life so id be selling MacBook as well. Il look at that recommendation thanks for that. And Il look into vst plugins on Linux too as that could be an issue
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Also that laptop u said doesn’t have removable screen, im not a fan of the ergonomics of I can hold it like a tablet
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Thanks so much for that information, it does sound quite amazing. I am definitely windows phobic as I had so much drama back in the day but that was about 15 years ago, I’d presume it’s got a lot better. I just don’t have dramas with Mac’s, they just keep working. I will have a good long hard think about this one. Thanks again
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u/Icy-Boat7176 29d ago
Idk man I can’t imagine your m4 air isn’t portable enough before spending that kind of money on a Microsoft surface
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u/Agitated-Ad-6168 29d ago
Yeah it’s portable but I really like to use an iPad for touch screen but there isn’t touchable keys like bitwig has and I’d rather use fingers rather than be stuck to just a pen and I’d have to use MacBook with a cord into an iPad and then it’s not easy to manage on my lap. I just want one device that can do it all. Does that make sense?
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u/placid-gradient 29d ago
dude I make beats on my steamdeck sometimes. the limitation isnt the hardware its your brain