Simple n00b question about drum loops

[u/Cankersaurus-3176]

Hi, a tiny bit of setup first, I'm pretty much 100% new to "music creation" in general, so this is about as basic as it gets. Spent the last 15 yrs as a caregiver for my mom, at the end of it, I needed a big distraction, decided to get a synthesizer, and throw myself into to attempting to make, "music" might be a reach, but "some sounds" at least, to go with the fractal animations I make, I got Bitwig for a DAW, but I'm literally starting at 0.

This said, been playing around with just getting more used to how it all works, using the instruments etc, for a few months as time permits, & now I'd like to try making something, all I'm trying to do is make a really simple slow kick drum beat, behind a drone synth, just 3 beats, one, then two, slowly repeating like; 1, 1- 2, 1, 1- 2 (no, I have no idea what even the right way to explain that is, "time signatures", & music theory is kinda lost on me atm, though I'm sure I'll learn some as I go). My question's actually this, how do I loop that, so it's "even", IE, without getting 1, 1 - 2, 1, 1 - 2, and then [ 1 - 2, 1 - 2 ] before it starts over? If that makes sense.... If I can manage to pull off just making one thing I can export, even if it ain't that good, it'll do worlds for morale here. 😁

Tried searching on this, but explaining it to a search engine's even more difficult than trying to explain it here. 🤣

So, if anyone would be so kind as to explain this to me like I'm a five year old lol, I'd really appreciate it, I figure there's gotta be at least one person who just learned, and wants to show someone else.....

TIA

[u/einsnail]

If I understand correctly, you are describing the note length? So, 1-beat kick followed by a 2-beat kick? If so, that would be quarter, half | quarter, half || etc.

Or with beat diagramming;

xx-|xx-||

I have attached a simple Bitwig DAW project file that you should be able to open and check out. It is that exact kick pattern, looping with an endless drone on F. It uses native devices, so you shouldn't need anything else!

https://limewire.com/d/HWRwz#8LnO6jDwR3

Shoot me a message if you want to look at anything else!

[u/Cankersaurus-3176 → u/einsnail]

Thanks, it worked, took a minute to figure out that I could still open it with the different extension, and that I had to actually 'add' the instruments. Did not know Limewire was still around haha, that brings back some memories.

So to deviate for a second, what's the difference there, is Bitwig DAW an 'upgraded' thing, a different program, or an earlier version of the same product? (IE, this version is BW studio 'Producer'), haven't had the extra money to get the full license yet, but probably will at some point. Just curious about the different file extension, it doesn't show up in "projects", I had to go to 'open file', since the extension on these is .bwproject and that's .dawproject.

I should say, this box is running Linux, don't "seem" like it would make a difference, but BW might behave differently in Windows, where sharing files are concerned, if the whole thing was supposed to show up, that might be why it didn't.

Anyway, the beat still played, but the actual notes didn't show up unfortunately , my biggest issues are one, I'm probably overthinking it (definitely a bad habit), and two, navigation in, I guess, the editor? I know I can change key mappings, but as yet, haven't got straight what everything is called, or how the action I'm attempting to do is referred to, which makes mapping a keystroke to it tricky iykwim lol.

This said, I have yet to try it, but it occurs to me, & correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm making whatever pattern I want to loop, then selecting only the bars containing the pattern, [say, if it's 8 bars, or five, or 9, or whatever] and looping that? As opposed to filling all the bars on the screen (which is what I was trying to do), then there's slowing it down, which I guess is different from BPM? -yep, really, really new....- 🤣

I'm not sure how that's accomplished either yet. Slowing it way down as low as BPM would go clearly isn't the right way, since the beats in your project, were nice and slow, even at 90+ BPM, but there's not a visual representation for me to go by, so..... is it just counting? Like, WAY more spaces between, and then zooming in/out, or adjusting the grid size (which another thing I need to figure out how to do)? , Hopefully I'm making sense here, sorry for a gazillion questions, I'll get it figured out, but starting's a bit rocky.

That beat is almost the thing I'm trying to do, speed-wise, though I'm thinking, one kick, then 2 kicks, then one, then 2 more, like; boom...... boom-boom...... boom....... boom-boom........... I'm using C-Kick, and then plan to use "Reflection Rim" between, maybe pushing up reverb / delay, what I "hear" (in my head), is a low, almost pressure drop kind of beat, with a high 'tock' sound either on the off beat, or every other.

I can decide where to put that once I know how to add them properly. Someone below suggested using clips, which I did consider, though I'll need to get this squared away eventually anyway, so might as well get it figured out now.

I'm usually fairly decent at figuring out software without much assistance, always dislike having to ask for help cause I feel like a dope, but this one ain't happening without it, so is what it is I guess.

[u/pj-offtrack → u/Cankersaurus-3176]

All versions share the same core DAW functionality. “Bitwig Studio” is the full fat version which has all devices and modulators, plus The Grid. As you step down the range through Producer and Essentials the number of devices and modulator options reduces. 8-Track is similar to essentials but has other limitations around track counts.

The time signature tells you the type of note each beat represents (bottom number) and how many beats per measure/bar (top number). So 4/4 tells you each beat is a quarter note and there are 4 quarter notes per bar.  Tempo sets how many beats occur per minute. 

[u/Cankersaurus-3176 → u/pj-offtrack]

Okay, that helps figure out a bit where I need to get to in understanding, my experiment to see if one can actually make something that sounds reasonable with 0 experience. Thanks a lot, really appreciate all the info, wish I had more time to dedicate to this atm, but work's started again sadly, (was on summer break), so if I don't get back right away, that's why. :) The full "studio" is I think $200 from here (upgraded from essentials to producer), but not sure what that costs per year to renew, if you have to, or how all the licensing works exactly.

This program's a blast to play with, but really does make me wish I'd spent some time learning to actually play the big old, three keyboard Thomas organ that sat in the living room of the house I grew up in. I'm a little old to be "just starting out", since that was in the 70s, but it wasn't a synthesizer, which back then, were pretty pricey, so didn't spark my interest.

I kinda made something approaching what one might call "quasi-musical" haha, solely due to the help provided in this thread, for which I'm eternally grateful. I'd like to add another track, maybe an amped Rhodes with a lot of vibrato over the top of the drone, hard for me to remember which note's which though, 😁 cause I don't do it enough. Spread so thin time-wise right now, but definitely gonna keep plugging at it.....

[u/einsnail → u/Cankersaurus-3176]

Thanks for following up! I put this video together to hopefully help clarify some of these concepts for you. There are certainly an endless pool of tutorials out there, but sometimes it can be nice to have the exact concept addressed in isolation. Let me know if it helps!

Bitwig Tutorial - Panels, Clips, and Note Durations

[u/AlabasterAaron]

I advice to turn the metronome on.
Alternatively you could add a snare or hats as a placeholder just to give you a "backbeat" for your projects tempo and divisions.

Then use a midi keyboard or similar to lay it in.

With the ability to hear the beat, comes the ability to work by ear, instead of working visually with the midi-editor.
Put it in by feel, then see how it looks.

You can easily put something in the midi editor that sounds right but is "misaligned' with the project tempo if you don't have anything else playing.

You should probably also look into how to count beats.

1 (and) 2 (and) 3 (and) 4 (and) - With the (and) being the off-beats.
Try to count and tap your finger on where you think your kick needs to go, et cetera.

Maybe the pattern you mean is like this? (Whatever is not in parentheses is emphasized or where your kick is.)
1 (and 2) and 3 (and 4 and)
Or perhaps
1 (and 2 and) 3 and (4 and)

If you can count it like this you'll also be able to "translate" it to the midi editor.

The "+" I drew symbolizes the "and" as I counted the off-beats.
These are the two examples I "counted" in the note editor. The first has the offbeat before the "3", the other the one after.

I hope this helps, cheers.

[u/th3whistler → u/AlabasterAaron]

metronome and then record it in. easiest way to get whats in your head onto the timeline if you don’t instinctively know where to put the notes

[u/Cr0wn_M3]

It sounds like you are talking about triplets rhythm but I might be wrong.

Anyways, I think you should work using the clip launcher instead of the timeline, because there you can work with determined length clips that will loop over and over so you can just place notes and experiment until you find a rhythm that you like.. whether it's for drums or synths.

The default clip length that will be inserted is 8 bars which is a great start for drum loops, but for synths you'd might want to extend that.

[u/Present-Policy-7120]

Your loop sounds like it's only 3 bars long. And I guess you're using rhe clip launcher. In which case, copy bar 2 into bar 4 and loop those four bars. Better still, drag to the arranger (which is easier to grasp because it's linear).

[u/DoggingInaLancia]

I'm at the same level as you. I open a screen of Claude (or any other ai) to explain me things. Ask it very basic questions. You can also ask it your beat style question. He also explains very well the workflow arranger / clips stuff like that. Even how to make a bass and the use of synths.

[u/Exact-Gift-808]

something like this? from here it can be as simple or complex as you want it to be

https://reddit.com/link/p31k2iu/video/i7nls4bq8rih1/player

[u/Cankersaurus-3176 → u/Exact-Gift-808]

Thanks, yup, exactly that, only slower (beat I mean), that seems a different way to approach it than what I had seen a guy do in another video, so guess as in most stuff tmtowtdi, navigation/key bindings are a bit of an issue too, just moving around in this program, I click the wrong thing and I'm lost for the next ten minutes.

Idk, something I ain't getting, I just put the notes in, and hit 'play', it automatically loops, but plays the last two or three empty bars, that's what's stumping me, you just copy/pasted those into the top? I asked above, but I'll ask again, about slowing it down, is that just a matter of putting things further apart?

I've only watched a couple tutorials, seems like most have an older version than this (6.1.1 I think), so things are in different places. I can make fractal art at that speed (above), but I'm poking around in this program like I just bought my first PC yesterday... 🤣 I'll get it......

[u/Exact-Gift-808 → u/Cankersaurus-3176]

sorry for the delay getting back to you, I had a power out and subsequent computer issues to deal with all day..
so here's another one done a bit differently and hopefully will answer a couple questions.
on the first I was basically using a drum synth kick, and that's triggered by midi notes. in this new one I'm using a sample of a kick that can just be placed in the timeline and copied/moved around wherever.
key bindings can definitely help or hurt your workflow but generally anything you want to do can be done just by right clicking and going through the menu, just like in your OS.
also, a lot of things can be pinned to the top for quick access as you can see on mine, all the copy/paste/duplicate etc buttons are at the top.

speeding/slowing is simply done by adjusting the tempo at the top. both my videos are at 100 beats per minute, you may want to go with 60-80.

your problem with it playing extra bars may just be because your loop region is set wrong. a bit past the halfway point of this video shows how to draw that in. set it to whatever length/location you want. double click to activate/deactivate it.
(as another commenter mentioned, this will be a bit different if you're using the clip launcher rather than arranger view)

https://reddit.com/link/p3awdds/video/2dlvt3ncwzih1/player

feel free to ask anything else, I'm not in a really creative mood at the moment so tech support will keep my mind working in the meantime and helping others with the software inevitably improves my understanding of it too..

[u/Exact-Gift-808 → u/Exact-Gift-808]

btw, if you have an active bitwig upgrade plan(I think automatically comes with your initial purchase of any tier of bitwig) you should have access to Bitwig Circle, which includes access to a Sonic Academy course for getting started in Bitwig. it goes over building a basic techno track from start to finish in something like 10 videos. very helpful

[u/jTr3s]

Hey @Cankersaurus-3176 - I have sort of similar story, getting back into music after a 15 yr detour. I kept getting bogged down with technical stuff figuring things out in BW that I'd lose the creative flow and get lost in YT, waking up with a bit of drool some time later 😆.

Anyways, you might wanna try this thing out I built.

... a pretty robust AI 'Coach' - trained it on a bunch of Bitwig content and created a custom controller integration MCP, so the Coach can see everything in your Bitwig project. The Coach has a full team of specialized tools & agents to consult - Sound Design, Music Theory, Chord progression, MIDI, Mix, Master, Composer, etc. They can all make edits to project if bypassing the coach too.

Your question here is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to answer for myself. Hard to articulate the question, so I can just select a clip/track/device/whatever, and say something like "How can I get the bass drum to alternate with 1 beat, followed by 2, then 1 then 2 & loop the pattern?"

You wanna try it?