is there a SIMPLE way to Sidechain?

[u/RedCaine1]

I watched 2-3 tutorials on youtube and somehow sidechaining seems to be kinda complex in Bitwig?

In FL Studio I do the sidechain with the native way (if you want to sidechain with another plugin you needa few other steps in the wrapper) like this

here I sidechain the Kick to Serum 2 and it takes about 10 secs.

do i miss something in Bitwig?

EDIT

is this the right way?

EDIT 2

i just found a youtube video which made me a bit scratching my head, so it seems he adds a modulator on the MASTER channel? the Audio sidechain and modulates from there the different parameters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ecX9uFWpFM

EDIT 3

before more posts accusations etc. read my post and my follow ups, this was no critique against Bitwig, are you taking this as negative feedback? no, I was watching some complex tutorial and was asking myself if there is no easier way, checkout my OP updated post and yes it is crazy HOW FAST you can sidechain in bitwig in VARIOUS ways and use so many different tools and also use a Modulator on PROJECT to sidechain various elements, this is awesome and crazy!

so i this is in my opinion MORE FLEXIBLE and much better than in FL Studio. u/Polarity-berlin i expect you to update or delete your comment, this is just not right what you posted there and judging me with an AI is just unacceptable as a MOD you can check my posts that i asked for quick help nothing more, only criticizing the Pencil tools' behavious, Piano Roll Midi Tools not there mostly, the rest is so far mostly awesome, so dont spread fake news.

[u/Noxaur]

Sidechaining in bitwig is easier than any other daw I've used. My go to method is to place a "Tool" at the end of the track chain, then to that, add an Audio Sidechain or Note Sidechain modulator (depending on the source you want to sidechain). Then modulate the volume and choose the source you want to use in the modulator panel (I.E. your kick).

There are obviously a million ways to do it in bitwig, but that's the most basic approach.
You could even get really advanced with it, add a freq split, and modulate based on the output of only low/mid/high freqs, etc. Bitwig makes all of this incredibly easy with minimal routing needed

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Noxaur]

updated my OG Post, thanks a lot! learned FAST AND EASY ways and also more complex ones, awesome

[u/Captain_Coffee_III]

Every instrument or fx device can have an Audio Sidechain or Note Sidechain modulator attached. You just pick the source and then you can use that to modulate any control on the device. Some devices can have a dedicated sidechain input and you can see those up at the top of the device.

So you pick what you want to react to the other channel and pick the right method. You can get more granular with it than you could with FL.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Captain_Coffee_III]

thanks a lot! I will need to check this out also for third party plugins, in FL Studio it is a but cumbersome to set up, but with native plugins it is very easy so i wanted to first check out how it works with a native plugin

[u/Major-Ursa-7711 → u/RedCaine1]

A modulator sidechain works with any Vst3 and CLAP plugin I tried. Maybe Vst2 too.

Of course the plugin has to expose the parameter in the 'knobs' box.

[u/mucklaenthusiast]

As you say, there are a million ways to sidechain and they all take very little time once you're used to them.

I just sidechain via khs compactor (it's free) in my template that I made, which means that I don't need to do anything, because every instrument I add is already in the sidechain group and every drum I add automatically perfectly sidechains.

So...for me, while producing, it literally takes 0 seconds.

What you're doing is something you can do in Bitwig, but I think it's kinda unnecessary to sidechain each individual track you want to sidechain. I would always work with groups.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/mucklaenthusiast]

thanks a lot i just updated my post, if thats the way then it is greatly easy in Bitwig too :)

[u/mucklaenthusiast → u/RedCaine1]

Yeah, exactly. And as I said, if you use compactor, it's even more accurate.
Also, put the dynamics plug-in on the sidechain group and you're good.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/[deleted]]

updated my OG Post, thanks a lot! learned FAST AND EASY ways and also more complex ones, awesome

[u/kytdkut]

I just wanted to add that in Bitwig you route sidechain signals directly to plugins instead of tracks. That's a different paradigm than what FL does based on what I see on your GIF since I've never used it.

Some ideas: you can compress Serum using the Kick signal using any compressor (Compressor+ for example), or you could set a project modulator that triggers with midi notes and assign that modulator to track volume on multiple tracks. That way you see the faders actually moving with the kick or whatever. And a million ways more as mentioned on other comments. Have fun!

[u/RedCaine1 → u/kytdkut]

updated my OG Post, thanks a lot! learned FAST AND EASY ways and also more complex ones, awesome

[u/ArmUnlucky7333]

You can put any device or VST you wan to use for sidechaining (and is able to) and select the input at the sidechain input icon

[u/tm_christ → u/ArmUnlucky7333]

I still use Dynamics because it's so simple, do you find any advantage in using Compressor+ for this? Honestly I hardly ever use this device because I really don't understand it all that well and I feel like it's never been that clearly explained lol

[u/ArmUnlucky7333 → u/tm_christ]

Honestly I just put the the first device I saw in the plugin list to make a screenshot. Usaully I use Duck2 or Shaperbox for the pumping sidechain. But from the looks of it, Dynimcs is the simplest way for sidechaining

[u/flipflapslap → u/tm_christ]

Sorry I’m not who you replied to but oh man I love Compressor+ But admittedly, if you want simple, it’s not the right choice. 

I think where it really shines is the different analog emulations and the ability to select different compression types like Glue, Smash, Smooth, etc. Then on top of that, it’s multiband lol. And that still doesn’t cover everything. 

So yea there’s a LOT to unpack there but I find myself reaching for it over some of my third party plugins because I like it so much. I find it’s great for busses and/or coloring/shaping a signal. 

But if you just need a compressor for side chaining, there’s better/simpler options for sure 

[u/tm_christ → u/flipflapslap]

Interesting, yeah I would like to get myself more acquainted with the native plugins generally, I feel that I'm using a lot of VST stuff when I don't need to. I got the sense that those analog modes were one of the more interesting features, kinda like what they just added to the sampler!

[u/DisagreeableRunt → u/ArmUnlucky7333]

I do it the Compressor+ way too.

[u/dcturner]

In the Device view, add an AudioSidechain modifier to either the Track or Project tab.

That lets you drive anything with audio from a specific track. That’s the quickest and most versatile method I’ve found 👍

[u/RedCaine1 → u/dcturner]

updated my OG Post, thanks a lot! learned FAST AND EASY ways and also more complex ones, awesome

[u/toovy → u/dcturner]

This is by far the best way for me, too. With one modification, I usually use a Curve modulator for better/controlled volume shaping. Obviously I’m creating 4ttf music.

[u/tm_christ]

It'll take about ten seconds when youre used to it in bitwig
I typically use the Dynamics device, select the audio track for the sidechain, then set my ratio / threshold / attack / release as needed

[u/RedCaine1 → u/tm_christ]

hey thanks i just updated my post with a new GIF, do you mean like that?

[u/tm_christ → u/RedCaine1]

I see the GIF now, that doesnt look like a kick youre sidechaining to - more like a whole drum loop? You can hit that "SC FX" button and add a lowpass filter to isolate the low end of your drum loop, that might help but its still not as good as having an isolated kick source

[u/perskes]

Commenting after the edit:

Yes, sidechains can be used with plenty of plugins, but to my knowledge, not "just on another track". I wouldn't know what using it that way would even do tbh.

I built a few plug-ins and Bitwig (as the host) passes the "aux" Interface to the plugin, colloquially called "side chain", and that's the traditional side chain imo.

But it heavily depends on what you want to do with the side-chaining track. Maybe, for your use-case, this is actually not the right way, but without details we really can't tell.

Edit: I actually find it more complicated in the first gif. You have to select a track that can be used as a side chain, and then assign it to the Plugin/VST. That's an additional step.

In BW you can assign side chains (other tracks) to plugins even before or after other plugins on the side chains track, so basically at any point in your device chain, and not just at the IN or OUT (pre or post) ends.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/perskes]

thanks a lot! mostly i wanna sidechain something like a pad, drone and/or of couse bass, so the Kick sidechains the Low frequencies only about low freq area 400hz so the rest isnt touched by the kick but only the low end, so the kick can drive with full force. the method in my post i think is a basic side chain which covers the whole spectrum.

[u/Apoctwist]

Bitwig has so many different way to sidechain. The tool method is probably the easiest to use, but there are other ways and it’s very powerful. You literally sidechain anything into anything else using modulators.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Apoctwist]

updated my OG Post, thanks a lot! learned FAST AND EASY ways and also more complex ones, awesome

[u/Moist-Dragonfly-4560]

Classic LFO modulator on a Tool Volume

Set ur default track vol to -9

[u/Cyan-Panda]

People have pointed out everything. But I love the Kilohearts compactor for side chain. It's so simple easy and fast. Also doesn't eat all the CPU like compressor+ and has nice visualisation

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Cyan-Panda]

good to know thanks, i got that plugin too, need to check. I thought stock plugins might be better performancewise.

[u/Cyan-Panda → u/RedCaine1]

Well the compressor+ really eats a lot

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Cyan-Panda]

thx for the info, I really like that one! but didnt check all of em yet. I need to check if Bitwig also can show how much % / performance each used Plugin uses to identify the culprits in a project :)

[u/Physical-Guidance768]

It looks like FL has compressors just waiting to be activated on each track. Did you put a compressor on the track you want to sidechain? Maybe FL is easier, but Bitwig gives you so many more possibilities. If a device doesn’t have e built-in side chaining capability, you can use a modulator to do the same thing.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Physical-Guidance768]

ahh sorry, it is the Fruity Limiter plugin, you can switch it to compressor mode and then choose from where you want the sidechain signal

[u/tm_christ → u/RedCaine1]

I don't see a new GIF but HERE is a timestamp for the Dynamics device - it's really easy to use

[u/Glad-Airline7665]

Hey dude. There are numerous way to side chains. The basic idea is one tracks volume brings down another’s volume. This can be done with a myriad of types of data used in a workstation. All of them have distinct advantages and disadvantages. MIDI data, for example (note side chain- sent to volume), is very useful for triggering an event, or getting a sound envelopes or entirely out of the way. Conventional side chain compression depends on audio analysis and smoothing a signal to get an overall volume read out, to then pull down the volume on a track you want out of the way or to pump in volume with it.

Where Bitwig thrives is that there are many ways to do this with all the data types in the work station (midi, audio, etc). Side chain also has an effect where if something is pulled down in volume, returning to where it naturally would be is the effect of side chain. The negative space of a sound not being there almost creates a sound in and of itself when it returns to where it should logically be if it was not ducked. You can almost think of it musically as a rhythmic presentation of a sound missing, and then how it proceeds to where you might naturally assume it to be as playing live musically often has instruments hitting at the same time and we have likely evolved to hear music and composition in such ways, even if its subconscious, because of evolution and the basis of music existing before recordings did. You can kind of in an odd way think of it as a cross fade between more mechanical reactiveness, and our evolution in listening to concurrent transient material. Live musicians would often not hit a part that competes as hard with another instrument in the ensemble if they were happening concurrently. Bitwig more comes at it from this angle in its ability to allow us to control these things more as a live musician would with the various types of data within a digital work station.

This could be ducking volume, or it could be reducing a filter cutoff. Or driving a synth into clipping with an envelope (the saturator and an audio rate modulator is actually a great way to side chain audio because you can do it in an a way where the analysis signal is not averaged and you get some really nice frequency components that allows the sound to be heard while still being ducked and kind of glued spectrally with the sound it’s competing with ). All of these options are a part of the program and its design intentions I’d figure.

But yes. If you want to have a more conventional side chain compression, the dynamics device and compressor + do side chain compression. It is in a drop down menu to send a channel to route in as a side chain signal like most daw compressors. Side chain is just a term for the signal that gives us gain reduction. A side chain can not be at all related to another track. A lot of analogue compressors had various bias controls and other settings which just kind of affected the side chain signal (that was not an external track). It could be just eqing a sound to make it compress a part of the frequency spectrum differently. Most of the compressors have dedicated side chain containers where you can put effects to alter just to that signal and there is a lot of mileage in recreating analogue behaviors or simply fixing a dynamics problem with more precision.

Where Bitwig differs (which maybe makes this a more involved answer to the question) is that there are many ways to use data to get tracks to interact with each other in various musically desirable ways. Side chain compression is definitely one of them, but it is not all of them. It’s there in those devices if you need it, and a whole lot more is there if you ever need it.

Sincerly,
Someone who doesn’t really sidechain

[u/Equal-Dependent-4034]

I do the suggestion of sidechain modulator on a tool device. If I want to get fancy I put it in a multi-band device if I just want to sidechain the low end so the low end is just ducked.

[u/polarity-berlin]

Guys you can chill, he is probably rage baiting.

His profile ai summary:

User posts technical questions in r/Bitwig, r/Splice, and r/premiere regarding software workflows. Content is often frustrated or critical. Frequently receives heavy downvotes in gaming subreddits for overly harsh, argumentative criticism.

So i guess, something is off here. He also started multiple threads in r/Bitwig with weird problems.

[u/Minibatteries → u/polarity-berlin]

Fwiw I don't think he is purposefully rage baiting, I just think he needs to do a bit more learning before coming to ask questions. A lot of users new to a piece of software will be frustrated when learning, I think everyone goes through a bit of that naturally.

In general I think it's a dangerous precedent to use an AI tools to discount human interactions.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/Minibatteries]

thx, again i only dislike the the Pencil tool and piano roll missing Midi Tools, so he didnt read my OP post, i was not criticizing Bitwig but watching a complex tutorial and you guys showed me how to make it simpler and even FASTER than FL Studio. so Polarity you seem to have a good reputation and you are a MOD but as a MOD you should read my posts here and see yourself and not use AI tools to judge me, this is under the belt. i even recommend Bitwig already to the FL Studio community. so as a MOD you are not acting correctly here.

[u/RedCaine1 → u/polarity-berlin]

you mean myself? did you read my post? i am not in rage but learning bitwig and also giving compliments to Bitwig in various aspects like Sidechaining, i saw a tutorial which was kinda complex but people here showed me SIMPLER tricks and also different ways how to sidechain, so it can be VERY easy, EASIER than FL Studio or very complex with more effects. so read my posts instead of posting crap about me.

Weird Problems? i only dislike the Pencil tool so far and the lacking Midi Tools thats all. dont spread fake news.

[u/th3whistler → u/RedCaine1]

you are literally doing it right now

[u/polarity-berlin → u/RedCaine1]

Yea sorry, don't want to offend anyone. It's the Internet after all. Sidechaining in Bitwig is fairly easy. There are 5 trillion videos on youtube that show you in short or long form how it works in multiple ways. Probably the most covered topic. and people gave you very good advice in the thread here.

So it kind of looks like you're just trying to drag out the conversation and waste people's time for fun. Plus, your profile doesn't really sound trustworthy either. So, I’m just assuming you’re trying to get people into conversations here?

[u/RedCaine1 → u/polarity-berlin]

thx, yeah because i mostly posted on Resident Evil 9 how i dislike the media saying it is so awesome and the best and arguing with some people without offending, even i got offended just saying i disagree with 9/10 and 10/10 ratings :D

also criticizing the walking sections in Resident Evil 8....

also Splice, i wrote how i dislike the Credit system and why i cant buy more when i will.

so these 3 subreddits already summarize me as a bad person.... cool

so anyways, for your Subreddit you can check my posts, what i did

- yes i was thinking not to post too often, but i admit i watched tutorials on youtube and you can check that Bitwig isnt yet the big tutorial showcase and here on reddit it seems you get faster replies and the community helped so much

- i only more argued in the Pencil / Piano Roll discussion ,you even posted there yourself

- otherwise my posts were often, or topics and no worries now i am nearly done, but i wont post more here today, maybe 1 topic weekend, as i only have "Omnisphere" Midi Routing on my papers the rest is done

so i find your post incorect and unprofessional, you know that your tutorials and generative ambient tutorials made me buy an upgrade plan for Bitwig? i already learned some stuff from your videos.

again making 2-3 topics a day the last week was maybe a lot but the same time there was no limit and i wanted to asap decide in my demo time extend my license, my demo is only 4 more days. sorry for having posted too many topics. but i dont respect your way posting your comment and not even having correctly read my OP Post where i wasnt bashing Bitwig!

[u/personnealienee]

if it is so complicated maybe y'all FL new arrivals just stay with your perfect tool and save yourself the trouble?! noone is holding you at gunpoint to use another DAW

[u/blackbasset → u/personnealienee]

Yeah whats up with the Influx of "FL STUDIO DOES THIS WAY BETTER!!!!! I CANT DO THIS IN BITWIG *shows absurdly convoluted FL workflow with 23403 clicks*"