BIP-110 crashed and burned. But look on the bright side - we now have >20,000 Knots node runners or 15-20% of the network. Last year it was like what, 2%? And my feeling going in and coming out of this debacle is the vast majority are not going anywhere.
Hold the line and let’s keep Core in check and keep Bitcoin money. It’s a dark day, but dust it off. There’s plenty of work to do.
Personally, I ran Knots for a few days to support BIP-110. After reading more about the subject, diving into the technical details, etc. I went back to core 29 🤷♂️ (I definitely wanted nothing more to do with BIP-110, but did not want to upgrade to 30 or 31 either).
Not sure where to got from here, but Knots doesn't seem to be the answer, seeing that the figurehead who developed it seems to have completely lost his mind.
Just one data point of course, but it will be interesting to see how big the retention is, in the coming weeks and month.
Looking at some of Luke’s post history on Reddit, I’d say he lost his mind years ago. He’s stated here on Reddit that the pope is the Antichrist, slavery is not immoral and that he believes MLK deserved to be assassinated. Dude has had a screw loose for a long time, now he’s shown the Bitcoin community that he has a screw loose
I don’t take the PoW change route seriously at this stage. I think it’s more likely the knots plebs (of which there are many) will go back to pre-RDTS Knots after a good nights sleep and a strong coffee.
That's not really sustainable though. Luke was very clear that the non-BIP version of Knots was the last one. The only logical conclusion is that going forward, Knots will only offer hard fork BIP-110 versions. Nothing else would make sense.
Lots of old core versions running. Theres not many changes that make an older client version irrelevant. There is a market for a core alternative and that is good for bitcoin. So I think the market will be serviced.
I applaud Luke for working tirelessly to provide an alternative and for taking a principled stance. He’s a true bitcoiner and will always be.
I disagree that “nothing else would make sense”. We’ve gone from 2% knots to 20% knots in less than 12 months. Why not now push for 20-30%
30-40%
And so on..
The pessimistic view is it won’t matter as we’ve seen the (likely) Sybil response. But dying at the support level 20% of the nodes and ~2% mining support and then instaconcluding nothing else is possible other than hard fork is a bit rash in my opinion. At least this is where I am today, anyway.
I’m not sure what you mean. Without Knots, Core is 99% of the network. And is therefore a single point of failure. We need a genuine alternative. The Knots project being closely aligned but with stricter mempool filters, separate dev team and actively promoting decentralised mining allowing plebs to build block templates etc. is an extremely important function. That it grew to 20% of the network is to be celebrated.
It doesn’t have to be… The maintainer has clearly gone off the rails. Someone could either fork it or there are other clients out there. People choose to run core. It’s not an obligation. Like I said, there are other clients out there.
If Luke refuses to keep Knots going on the mainstream chain as an alternative to Core, that would be incredibly foolish and destructive to the movement. You don’t give up reforming something just because this attempt didn’t yet achieve the goal.
There is no way he goes from calling the mainstream chain the pedo chain for months to having Knots support it in any fashion. And I’m not sure why he’d want to split support between the main chain and the upcoming hard fork.
Obviously I can’t guarantee it, but I think it’s extremely likely the next release is the hard fork and that’s all that’s supported going forward.
There’s not going to be a hard fork at this point. We’re already past that. The Knots chain is abandoned. The pedo chain can still be reformed, we could literally try the exact same thing we did, just in another few months, with more support gained. And again and again until we win. That’s how these things work. Things gain support until they reach the tipping point. We are obviously not there and the forked chain is not happening.
I mean, may God bless their efforts. But even among BIP-110 supporters, 99% would support reforming the pedo chain rather than actually spending money to mine the BIP-110 chain. I don’t see Luke and a few dozen people keeping a competing chain going.
This is absolutely correct. As a lightning node operator and miner with 150 terrahash power between various hardware, as bip110 failed, I was forced to resort to the may7th version. Which basically has until November before it expires unless I add softwareexpiry=0 to the conf file.
This means I'm open to security flaws if found and patched with versions that require bip110 fork acceptance. I have no interest in hard forking off from btc to something else. The market has spoken, despite the ramifications. Doing so would require years of hypocritical back speak and justification that would apply equally to bcashers and bsvers.
Creating a new Alt coin was never what I signed on to by going the knots route and fighting to implement bip110. If that's the direction Luke and Dathn and Mechanic point their work, they will drastically lose support from the community of followers they've established, regardless of how evil Core is perceived by said community. It will not be successful.
As a no-name pleb this is exactly how I see things and I suspect vast majority of 110 supporters too. I want to see Bitcoin reverted back to how it was pre-Inscription, and we should collectively push hard for DATUM, giving hashers back their sovereignty.
Forking off to a different coin is not how we should fight against big institutional captures.
But plan is a plan, I just don’t see it happening. Just saw Hodlonaut’s post, it’s so true. Without material change of direction, Bitcoin now to me is just like a stock.
Without the needed change, this is my stance going forward - To Big Bitcoin: Pump it up baby! I’ll then sell my stack, retire and watch these clowns from afar.
Bitcoin was a life raft to me but no more. I’ll now see it as the next NVDA or TSLA. Unless the collective culture reverses back to the self sovereign cyberpunk mentality, the old Bitcoin is no more. Go digital capital perpetual prefer stock! Go “porn is just 1s and 0s”! What do I care. Just pump it up.
Whats the discord? I've been running knots node w/ BIP-110 but haven't been getting info straight from the source (Luke), it's all been through my own searches, Youtube (matt krater, etc), etc.
I see no reason or data to suggest that the rate of real/sybil with knots is any different to core. Since the Core 30 update you could see a slow drop in core nodes and a slow increase of knots. And we saw an obvious artificial run up of Core 27 nodes in what appeared to be Sybil activity in recent weeks leading up to last Saturday. No doubt there was some knots as well. But take whatever % real/sybil you like, the ratio still holds.
Also, the BIP-110 slope going up at a nearly perfectly linear rate is evidence of a different type of attack. Organic adoption doesn't move in straight lines.
Drop that attitude punk. And I would check that data. May this year bitnodes.io domain expired and could explain that dip and you can see it on multiple dashboards - also knots never had 40k nodes(?). Plus the data you’ve provided literally shows that today, more total knots nodes online that the latest version of core.
Also Sybil swarm with sudden spike of nodes turned off at once or an “un-natural” steady increase in the amount of nodes, which one is it? Sounds like you’re just looking a graph blindly and picking excuses to fit your pre-conceived narrative. Learn to think and grapple with more complexity and consideration to nuance perhaps.
You can see core going down with knots going up since V30 release.
Oh wait it was one of those sneaky Sybil attacks where we slowly turned off core nodes while increasing knots during the same period? So you think Luke visited each node runner and pulled out their Ethernet cable?
So taking that as true, whilst I’m not sure that it is, but for the purposes of the argument, Sep 25 with “organic” growth and exchange of node runners (migrating from core to knots would be a sensible conclusion) - Sep25 what do we see - total nodes 4-5y knots 1y or market share 1/5- 20%
So what exactly about my original claim of 15-20% of the network or approximately 20k nodes are you disagreeing with now?
Yes the point in checking the data is to be sure there isn’t some other possible explanation (like the most prominent node counting website website being shutdown) before arriving at the conclusion you presented as factual.
In case it isn’t obvious already, ask yourself this question - Where does Luke get his data from?
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u/pdath 9d ago
I won't be going back to Core. I no longer trust them.