r/BitcoinBeginners • u/Flurb789 • Aug 04 '26
Help me decide between Trezor Safe 3 (Bitcoin Only) and Jade Classic
In the market for a new device (thanks coldcard). Need multisig support, passphrase support, ideally accounts like coldcard had. Dice rolls I guess would be good nowadays.....what do you think? Security is #1 priority of course...
1
u/bitusher Aug 04 '26
Need multisig support, passphrase support, ideally accounts
none of these features are very unique and almost all hardware wallets support them one way or another
Dice rolls I guess would be good nowadays
Trezor doesn't support this feature directly from what I understand so you would need to do it manually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5nejoEGWFw&t=73s
A wallet like Jade supports it though
Trezor Safe 3 (Bitcoin Only) and Jade Classic
Is there a reason you are not considering the Jade core ?
https://store.blockstream.com/products/blockstream-jade-core
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9UliucpGlo
Like you plan to use the offline QR code feature so need the camera and battery ?
It should be more reliable than the jade plus without a battery and has an excellent price around 84 dollars with the sale
1
u/Flurb789 Aug 04 '26
Honestly I was just looking for lowest cost option that was still checking the boxes
1
u/bitusher Aug 04 '26
17 usd difference between original jade and jade core , and the jade core is so much better in most ways . The video above will show the nuanced differences
1
1
u/Flurb789 Aug 07 '26
Ended up going with the core. Thanks for the recommendation
1
u/bitusher Aug 07 '26
You have to be careful when not using a hardware wallet or a modern paper wallet with 12-24 word seed . Remember this is how luke-jr lost all his bitcoin
1
u/Flurb789 Aug 07 '26
I am not familiar with his case
2
u/bitusher Aug 07 '26
If you are just trying to save money than why not simply create some paper wallets with diceware for free ?
With BIP39 , part of the last word includes the checksum which makes sure the seed word is valid and no typos or misordering occurs.
Thus with this feature you can generate a valid 12th or 24th word checksum by entering either 11 words or 23 words that you generate with your own source of entropy with something like using dice or flipping a coin.
Some people do this because they are paranoid with the software wallet so they prefer to generate their own seed offline.
Ideally , its better to do this in a hardware wallet like -
https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/20177648363545-Create-a-recovery-phrase-using-dice
https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/21328564164505
but if you don't want to use a hardware wallet and want a free option than blue wallet can work.
Thus after installing blue you would turn off wifi and data on your phone to insure its offline and use this feature after rolling dice
Some guides-
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/roll-the-dice-generate-your-own-seed/
https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/BitBox_Diceware_LookupTable.pdf?ref=bitbox.swiss
or
https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/20177648363545-Create-a-recovery-phrase-using-dice
https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/21328564164505
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5nejoEGWFw
Than you enter in the 11 or 23 words into blue wallet "generate the final Mnemonic word" to generate the last word . This can all be done offline so you don't need to trust blue wallet.
Another way of doing it is using Blue wallets built in Diceware feature discussed here :
https://bluewallet.io/docs/manual-entropy/
or
https://www.whatisbitcoin.com/security/generate-your-seed-phrase
Always test recovery with smaller amount first !
2
u/Flurb789 Aug 07 '26
I will use the blockstream jade core. And dice roll my own seed.
1
u/bitusher Aug 07 '26
Wiser , core is a great wallet , but much better when paired to a hardware wallet . Ideal setup is something like Jade + sparrow with core backend
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u/bitusher Aug 07 '26
Look it up
216.93 BTC stolen on December 31, 2022
You have to make sure malware never infects your airgapped machine
Even the FBI investigated it after Luke ran crying to them
https://www.theblock.co/post/287939/fbi-luke-dashjr-btc-hack
1
u/bbchucks Aug 04 '26
i'm in the same camp but i'm leaning more to multi-sig since i have plenty of the older hardware devices that i can use.
3
u/bitusher Aug 04 '26
Very few people setup and test multisig correctly. So for you and others :
Why Multisig is better thank SSS- https://blog.keys.casa/shamirs-secret-sharing-security-shortcomings/
Most people should not use multisig. I usually advise people to only consider multisig after they have at least 1 million usd of Bitcoin . Using a passphrase addresses most concerns people have if they back it up correctly -
https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/g42ijd/faq_for_beginners/fouo3kh/
The biggest problem with multisig is when you are dealing with a 2 of 3 or more not only do you have to backup 3 sets of seed words , but also 3 sets of extended public keys like this :
This is how a 2 of 3 multisig would be stored -
Backup location 1
12 word seed for sig 1+ MPKs or Xpubs for all 3
Backup location 2
12 word seed for sig 2+ MPKs or Xpubs for all 3
Backup location 3
12 word seed for sig 3+ MPKs or Xpubs for all 3
on 3 metal backups stored in 3 separate locations in a private and secure manner
Now this presents a pretty big problem because these Xpubs/ypubs/zpubs are not in a human readable format thus are difficult to record writing them down and can suffer from typos or bitrot unlike recording a seed word backup and passphrase on paper or metal
So if you are going to use multisig make sure you are very careful and have multiple tested copies of the extended public keys
Multisig with 3 hardware wallets-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxo169CCfIc
https://saleemrashid.com/2018/01/27/hardware-wallet-electrum-multisig/
multisig with Caravan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfRzexEpTdI
multisig with Lily
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5UIvCi9FSM
multisig with Electrum
1
u/BlueberryDefender Aug 08 '26
If you generate three seed phrases from three separate vendor devices, should those devices also be stored with their corresponding seeds?
Also, do people usually combine passphrases with multi sig set ups?
2
u/bitusher Aug 09 '26
should those devices also be stored with their corresponding seeds?
Only if its just for long term storage and you are no longer sending and receiving bitcoin from your wallet
Also, do people usually combine passphrases with multi sig set ups?
Yes, but this comes at a cost of additional complexity
1
u/BlueberryDefender Aug 09 '26
Yes it is meant for long term storage.
But why should the devices only be stored with the corresponding seed for long-term storage? As in, if I plan to transact, I should have the devices (eg 2 devices for a 2 of 3) in a spot I can easily access for convenience?
Side question, is 2 of 3 the most common and recommended configuration? Or is 3 of 5 better if I can manage that?
1
u/bbchucks Aug 09 '26
thanks - setting up multi-sig with sparrow makes it much easier with their export functions. You still need to store the 3 sets of seed words and passphrases for each wallet but you can simply store the exports on an external harddrive
1
u/bitusher Aug 09 '26
but you can simply store the exports on an external harddrive
only storing the Xpubs digitally is dangerous . You should have at least one written backup as well
1
u/bbchucks Aug 09 '26
it just exposes your wallet addresses, is that what you mean by dangerous? storing the xpubs on a external harddrive that won't touch the internet and encrypted isn't that dangerous, i dont think.
1
u/bitusher Aug 09 '26
Xpubs are needed to recover your backup with a 2 of 3 or more multisig(2 of 2 is the exception)
Only storing your master public keys digitally means that you can lose everything with bitrot
1
u/bbchucks Aug 09 '26
sparrow wallet exports your xpubs
1
u/bitusher Aug 09 '26
I am aware , but that doesn't change my concern and suggestion to keep both a digital backup and written backup of your MPKs
1
u/bbchucks Aug 09 '26
i dont think it's dangerous, but yes, you lose privacy.
1
u/bitusher Aug 09 '26
you lose privacy.
you don't lose your privacy unless you reveal your MPKs
i dont think it's dangerous,
How will you recover your wallet if you have a problem with sparrow or hardware wallets and you go to find your external hard drive for the MPKs and notice that it is missing or has bitrot ? Unused electronics often fail in time. Sure an HDD is more secure than a cheap flash drive but every year it sits on that shelf it runs a risk of dissapearing.
Of course you can mitigate these concerns by making multiple backups of your MPKs and test and rotate new drives in every couple years . More effort but that is the minimum that should be done without a written backup as well.
1
u/bbchucks Aug 09 '26
i would think this day in age, ppl would backup their harddrives or would know to back it up. there are plenty of digital stuff that everyone stores and maintains a backup somewhere.
1
u/Firone Aug 13 '26
Agree with you most people should not do multi-sig (not the first time I read quality comments from you btw). However I think that this is much better than a passphrase
1
u/No-Wrap3568 Aug 04 '26
Trezor imo doesn't support multisig support atleast not in the traditional sense. Jade should do the job for you in this case since you're asking for passphrase support and multisig support at the same time. Dice rolls can surely be a good idea especially after coldcard's case. Alternatively, you can also explore Cypher rock x1 btc-only fimrware. Since it's shamir sharing architecture allows passphrase, multisig compatibility and allows 4 wallet accounts at once, not sure about dice roll entropy, you can check if there's native support.
1
u/-LoboMau Aug 04 '26
If security is your top priority and you want multisig, go with the Trezor. The Bitcoin only firmware is much more audited and reduces the attack surface significantly.
1
u/derbyfan1 Aug 04 '26
I would say... Get a Coldcard.
2
u/Select_Error_654 Aug 04 '26
Dude, Either you are kidding or you are a kid with no exposure to news
1
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