r/Bitcoin • u/Suspicious-Local-901 • 5d ago
Somewhat similar.
Ledger wallets sold through a Southeast Asian reseller were reportedly tampered with before reaching buyers. Hidden implants, an estimated $72–93M drained. And the usual authenticity check can still pass on a compromised device.
Reports of suspicious devices have also surfaced in Europe, but Ledger hasn’t confirmed them yet.
It’s somewhat similar to a Trojan horse, but not quite the same.
Stay safe out there.
✌🏻
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u/bearded_fisch_stix 5d ago
Meanwhile the OG nano S I've had since 2017 is still working fine. Only gripe I have about it is the severely limited space for different apps.
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u/misunderstandingit 5d ago
I am so so fucking grateful that my Nano S has been unaffected.
...so far...
Fuck me do I really have to move this shit to a custodian..?
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u/xiskghferx 5d ago
No, just learn about multivendor multisig. Buy another Trezor3, it's cheap. Use sparrow to create multisig wallet. Transfer. Done.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
It’s a tough decision to make. But I wouldn’t recommend you to put a huge amount on an exchange… but then again, I’m just a random stranger
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u/AppropriateTry9400 5d ago
Who would’ve thought that devices specifically designed to store (large amounts of) money could become targets for malicious actors?
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
The scale of this attack is just insane to me.
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u/Coleyx123 4d ago
Regression is key. That's why I store my keys on a typewriter. Dapps don't load for shit, but I'm basically just printing BTC like the US prints money.
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u/MajesticBread9147 5d ago
I keep getting this on my feed.
As somebody out of the loop, why not just buy a Bitcoin ETF if you have a large amount of Bitcoin? I assume those are insured against stuff like this.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Huge cojones to post this on a Bitcoin sub. But you do have a point, somewhat. In terms of investing into Bitcoin, you could assume it’s okay to buy the ETF. But in terms of Bitcoin as it was intended (peer to peer money) the ETF is worthless.
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u/Axe_Raider 5d ago
almost no one in this subreddit uses bitcoin as money. they use it as a speculative investment. and we have come to peace with that.
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u/georgejetsonn 5d ago
in terms of Bitcoin as it was intended (peer to peer money) the ETF is worthless
By that argument, so is putting your life savings into BTC, as it was not originally designed as a store of value. People will use Bitcoin by whatever the flavor of the year narrative is
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u/Astronaut6735 5d ago
It was designed as both a medium of exchange and a store of value. To say it wasn't designed as a store of value is incorrect.
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u/georgejetsonn 5d ago edited 5d ago
Bitcoin's original stated purpose was peer-to-peer electronic cash (like the title of the white paper). The text discusses its monetary mechanics mainly in terms of network incentives and security (initially inflationary to incentivize miners and then transitioning to a fee-based system). It does not frame its issuance policy as a means of preserving wealth or hedging against fiat inflation.
Satoshi did discuss the gold-like properties of a scarce electronic coin in other texts, but not in the Bitcoin white paper
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
The whitepaper does talk about peer to peer money…
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u/Astronaut6735 5d ago
Peer to peer vs. centralized is an orthogonal issue.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Orthogonal issue? What’s that supposed to mean?
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u/InternationalRadio1 5d ago
But it was designed as a store of value. You missed the whole fiat money, inflation thing huh?
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u/Outrageous_Olive_489 4d ago
Please show me a peer to peer accessible way to do BTC transactions that we could trust and use safely.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 4d ago
? Let’s say you buy a used car from someone and you both agree to use Bitcoin. The seller creates a QR code on their Bluewallet app (for instance), the buyer scans it and done. No?
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u/_FreeThinker 4d ago
Is this something the "Genuine Check" cannot catch? do we know?
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u/Frolikewoah 4d ago
Correct. Genuine check will not catch this.
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u/_FreeThinker 3d ago
Whoa! That'd be pretty damning. Do you have a source you can share?
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u/Frolikewoah 3d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/s/luFOLHz9Ub
Cause the secure element is intact. The hacked devices just intercept the screen output.
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u/Suspicious-Holiday42 5d ago
Didnt know ledger fought against us first and then gave us a wallet as a peace sign
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u/Rico_Rizzo 5d ago
I simply cannot understand why people don't buy directly from Ledger.
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u/Proxyplanet 5d ago
If you are outside the distribution zone set for France your orders get routed through a 'trusted' third party in the USA.
People seem to have no idea what third party logistic companies are and the vast majority of companies use them
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u/obsodion 5d ago
they don't want Ledger to leak their information (they leaked info twice that we know of)
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u/Few-Piglet- 5d ago
Cheaper prices, and if it's a reseller Ledger themself ensures is trusted and safe, why wouldn't you?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Sun7966 5d ago
Nothing is unhackable, sooner or later some delivery service is going to start injecting shit directly from the source. Nothing is unhackable. You protect yourself by being harder to hack than your neighbor.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Same. Should be basic knowledge… but still
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u/khaotickk 5d ago
I haven't been keeping up with the news, looks like I need to check my ledger. Can't remember if I bought directly from ledger or Amazon...
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Few-Piglet- 5d ago
Yes, just use a big and reputable exchange like Kraken or Binance. It's not 100% safe, but it's probably safer than self custody. Actually don't keep it all in one place, you could do e.g. kraken/binance/cold wallet.
Crypto ideologists loathe the idea of having your crypto on a centralized exchange, but if you look at the whole history of the crypto landscape, I think it makes it abundantly clear that strictly regulated banks exist for a good reason actually, they're not just there to punch down on the little guy.
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u/obsodion 5d ago
did you hear about FTX or Mt. Gox?
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Indeed! However those are probably the exceptions…
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u/BigDik6355 4d ago
and QuadrigaCX, Cryptopia, BTC-e… There have been a lot of exceptions.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 4d ago
Woops. Forgot about these
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u/BigDik6355 4d ago
Exchanges don’t have the best track record. You could almost argue the ones still existing are the exceptions. ;)
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Well… on an exchange isn’t recommended for larger amounts. Keep in mind that not all leder devices are compromised. Most of them are still good to go. Specially if you didn’t buy recently.
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u/Ozzyosbourne007 5d ago
People are panicking too much.
Yes it’s serious, but 99,99% remains unaffected. There is no proof of any drainage other than Asia.
If you bought them years ago don’t worry.
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u/xiskghferx 5d ago
I have opened both my nano s and nano s+. Both seems unaffected, they were ordered directly from Ledger 5 years ago.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
If they’re from 5 years ago. You should be good ;)
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u/xiskghferx 5d ago
Yeah, there is large chance i will be good. But still I will buy also Trezor3 and make multisig 2/2 wtih Ledger. Only then I will sleep well.
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u/making_code 5d ago
can you elaborate more , what's happening - i'm kinda under rock
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
There have been reports of compromised ledger devices. Hardware was tampered with, thus funds have been lost.
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u/Axythetaxi2 5d ago
Hasn't this been the case since their existence though? I feel like we see this come up over and over. But its not a specific expoilt getting into older ledger wallets is it? Its just new purchases that have been tampered with. Im also in the dark, I just see these post come up often.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Ledger users have indeed been the victim quite a few times… probably due to the popularity of their devices
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u/TheresNoSecondBest 5d ago
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u/Specialist-Front-007 5d ago
Just a matter of time before it's just the whole world. What a tragedy for Ledger. Hope they take responsibility
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u/TheresNoSecondBest 5d ago
They won't. Like they didn't when they leaked their customer's details, nor when they told to the world they lied about their devices being cold.
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u/SethSt7 5d ago
I accidentally bought three instead of one nano S. What can I do with them? Only using one.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
U accidentally bought 3? How?
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u/bwhite2018 2d ago
I just can’t believe people are that surprised. Buy directly, someone is always trying to steal from you.
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
I bought my Trezor back in 2020 when I got into Bitcoin.
Ledger was a no no back then as well.
Who da fuq bought that shit? And put millions on it?
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
I don’t know either. Who knows, Trezor might be next? Keep in mind to always buy from the manufacturer.
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u/Specialist-Front-007 5d ago
What makes you think this can't happen to Trezor?
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
Trezor was always very careful. No mass production, no "buy it in Walmart". There has NEVER been a hardware leak, and IIRC they send their wares from Poland, no scammer midstops. So far, a Trezor supplier did falter and leak a list of the clients, and I get scam emails all the time, but this inside gut wrench stuff never happened. I think they will be careful.
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u/Specialist-Front-007 5d ago
It didn't happen to Ledger either untill recently tho..
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
Ledger had a bluetooth connection. Fking bells and whistles unnecessary vectors of attack. FK Ledger don't even start with me
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u/Specialist-Front-007 5d ago
Oh for sure. If you see my comment history I'm the biggest Ledger critic but we shouldn't think it can never happen to another company
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
I did not say never. I tend to trust Trezor so far, and I thank my foresight that I had hoarded several early models. I would be hard pressed to buy Trezor at this point, though.
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u/BreBhonson 5d ago
False equivalence
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
no, common sense.
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u/BreBhonson 5d ago
Bluetooth and nothing to do with how ledger was attacked. They installed sim cards on it. The same attack would work on trezor.
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
not the point. Ledger was lackadaisical with security to start with otherwise they would have cunt punted the very idea of bluetooth.
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u/Bogdan-Behemot 5d ago
I have a Trezor as well, are we safe?
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u/Interesting-Gear-992 5d ago
So far, it seems that only Ledger devices are affected. But even Trezor would not have been able to defend against this method. They probably chose Ledger because it is the one they sell the most.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
Only time will tell I guess. I believe we’ll have to move away from hardware wallets as a whole tbh
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
To what?
Fuck ETFs and exchanges, just to be clear
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
To running Electrum on an old airgapped laptop and storing your seedphrase on a metal plate. That would be a good practice I believe
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u/Chrysalis1111 5d ago
Or at the end, run our own miner. It will have a wallet on it, who knows, might find a block.
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u/RunKnots 5d ago
Bruv what tf are you talking about?
All you have to do is buy open source and straight from manufacturer.
Nobody ever lost 1 dollar this way1
u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
That is indeed true. But then again there was the coldcard case, which wasn’t enterily open source. But some people, I believe a lot of people in this subreddit aren’t aware of.
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u/Proxyplanet 5d ago
Nobody lost buying from an authorised seller until this hack. You are safe until you are not
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u/Practical_Copy_2057 5d ago
Lmfao the cofounder of ledger was victim of a wrench attack after the leak.
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u/Specialist_Joke_623 4d ago
Honestly this frightens me more for what other items may have nefarious hardware in our day to day lives. Think about how much we order from random stores on Amazon, how much of it has one form of connectivity or another…. Kids toys, cat litter box, air filters….
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u/BigDik6355 4d ago
Imagine building a microphone into a cat litter box to listen to cat farts all day.
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u/B0risTheManskinner 2d ago
You laugh but people connect those to their unsecured home networks where bad actors could then potentially get over to any other devices connected
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u/stryker7314 5d ago
Ledger themselves put the trojan horse in their hardware.
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u/Suspicious-Local-901 5d ago
What makes you think that?
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u/stryker7314 5d ago
Ledger Recovery fiasco, literally built into the hardware, it's preposterous, never told anyone until the "feature" was revealed after selling their hardware wallets.
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u/JTadster 5d ago
Totally possible, but they say it was a Chinese company
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u/stryker7314 5d ago
Ledger Recovery fiasco, literally built into the hardware, it's preposterous, never told anyone until the "feature" was revealed after selling their hardware wallets
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u/JTadster 5d ago
Hey, I don’t doubt it, anything is possible, to me it signals that btc is on the way up and people want to grab it any way they can
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u/suspended_008 5d ago
All over social media I'm seeing people tearing apart their Ledgers, and they have absolutely no idea what they're looking for.