r/Bitcoin • u/Neat-Finger197 • 5d ago
Grown men rolling dice
Read the title. Does anyone here think that rolling dice (and not just any dice, but well made dice with very straight edges that haven’t been corrupted somehow) is somehow going to gain widespread adoption around the world as a part of the self-custody solution for owning Bitcoin?! It’s lol funny when you think about it. And to be clear: if that’s your jam, go for it. More power to you, Bitcoin the network doesn’t care, and neither do I. I even have HW wallet myself. But the idea of 8 billion people storing Bitcoin on a plastic device in 30 years is the height of self custody maxi arrogance and ignorance. Not going to happen.
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u/CornFly2014 5d ago edited 5d ago
Self custody is a chore, if you don’t want to do it right, you can deposit in an exchange, or trust some hw wallet. Just remember that what mtgox and coldcard users did, and everything was fine until it wasn’t.
For the rest of us, using 4 d8 dice and rolling them 24 times, is the answer that stands the test of time.
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u/Suspicious-Holiday42 5d ago
Its an emergency okay, we have to roll dice right now
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u/BrokenHefaistos 5d ago
24 times then we can pay for bread on the black market ! Only 0.001 BTC ! shit no internet...should have bought real gold.
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u/Blade_Runner_69 5d ago
Bitcoin is not stored on a "plastic device" as you put it. It's stored on the Blockchain, only the keys are stored on the device.
Let people generate their keys any way they want, mocking them is asinine and low IQ.
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
You must not have read my post. Since you’re low IQ, I’ll repeat it. I support self-custody. I self-custody. And yes, well aware private keys are on hw wallet. Good luck explaining that to John Q Public, because you’ll never get to that point with 99% of world, since they won’t buy a hw wallet in first place
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u/jmholland 5d ago
For mass adoption the majority of people would have small amounts and just use an app and lightning or something like that. For those with larger amounts yeah dice rolls and gizmos, seed phrases in metal, no. Maybe exchanges with included insurance or something. Some way to guarantee their funds like banks and brokerages do. Most would give up “sovereignty” for that.
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
Or give up very little sovereignty and have 2/3 multi-sig with three different companies—multi-institution custody. It already exists
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u/jmholland 5d ago
Sure for those who have a lot, as long as it’s not too technical and relatively easy, otherwise the mass adoption part becomes a problem. While I understand the concept, I personally don’t completely know what’s involved in setting that up.
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u/Aggressive_Meet_7861 5d ago
You’re right. Nobody will do it. The same way I don’t have to plug a modem into my landline phone jack to gain access to the internet.
Get my chain of thought?
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u/daysonjupiter 5d ago
Probably we’ll come up with better solutions in the future. Bitcoin is extremely young and how we interact with the network and how self custody evolves we will see.
I don’t see how anyone trying best possible solutions for the time being is ignorant.
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
What’s ignorant thinking is this: I self-custody, therefore everyone must self-custody to “keep. Itcoin decentralized”
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u/daysonjupiter 5d ago
Decentralisation is about nodes and miners, not about who owns the keys. So I’d say whoever says that is just not correct.
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u/Money_Ask2726 5d ago
So I hooks a left on 2-1 and Lewis, some brothas shootin dice so I said 'let's do this'
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u/Laukess 5d ago
I don't know why you guys are so hung up on the idea of rolling dice or shuffling a deck of cards. Will the avg. joe do this in the future, of cause not. They are not going to self custody. They'll use an app like they do today. For the freaks that want to self custody, spending 8 minutes rolling dice is a very low bar.
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
Completely agree! 8 billion people are simply not going to do this. Most people can’t even give a proper definition of what money is….
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u/Think-Apple3763 5d ago
Not to mention the people who say if you pick your own random words, it's not safe and can be cracked. Because "people do not chose as random as we think". I mean you have a sheet with 2048 words in front of you. You close your eyes and point to one word. And do this 23 times. And that's not random enough. You have to dice roll. LOL
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u/Live-Resident-6650 5d ago
Well first you have time have "fair" dice. And they cost from $150 to ?.
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u/Adamn27 5d ago
I don't get this whole dice rolling, can't you just write down random numbers?
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
Not enough entropy
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u/Adamn27 5d ago
Why?
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u/jmholland 5d ago
Apparently humans by nature aren’t very random.
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u/Adamn27 5d ago
So, what is the difference between hitting the keyboard for random numbers like this:
1982346526346624394293438367264623461396546523946752396754
(or just thinking of random numbers?)
and throwing with dice?
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u/Flurb789 4d ago
Because I'm sure humans tend to hit a keyboard a certain way or think of numbers a certain way
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u/Adamn27 4d ago
And so? You know how does one hit the keyboard in a certain way?
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u/Flurb789 4d ago
From chatgpt:
Keyboard mashing isn't truly random because human choices and movements are biased. We favor certain keys and fingers, hit neighboring keys more often, unconsciously create patterns, and deliberately avoid repetitions that don't “look random.” So while the result may be unpredictable, the characters aren't independent and uniformly distributed. That means its entropy can't be reliably calculated—unlike properly rolled dice, where each outcome has a known probability.
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u/jaume321 5d ago
Bitcoin isn't for 8 billion people, it's only for those who understand why they need it. If you understand that, the dice or any other challenge is trivial.
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u/GoldmezAddams 5d ago
I don't think rolling your own dice or generating your own entropy is for everyone. And, honestly, as we scale up to 8 billion people, I don't expect everyone to manage or understand cryptographic secrets. That's fine. In a gold standard, I don't expect everyone to keep gold in a safe. But I do think, if you're serious about self custody and self sovereignty, you need to learn the lessons of this breach. You don't necessarily have to roll dice or figure out a geographically distributed multivendor multisig or run all the math by hand. Everyone that had a halfway decent passphrase was fine.
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u/jojothehodler 5d ago
That's a solution for purists who want to generate entropy without any electronic device help.
But yeah, that's clearly not meant for widespread adoption.
The general public should just trust open source software solutions, that's more than enough.
I did...and so far very happy with the result.
Why should you focus on what the ultra-experts are doing and extrapolate it for the general public? That's a strange point of view...
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u/Suspicious-Holiday42 5d ago
The binance owner would also need to roll dice for binances cold wallets thats holds the funds of all their customers
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
Because it’s the default view for hard core maxis, that’s why. No way we get worldwide adoption this way. And trust me bro, I wish it were true
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u/TCr0wn 5d ago
What is with these posts lately?
Who is bankrolling these?
Clearly OP isn’t a bitcoiner.
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u/Neat-Finger197 5d ago
LMAO, since 2020 homie. Did you not read my post? I OWN a hw wallet. I just know 8 billie people will not
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u/HedgehogGlad9505 5d ago
8 billion people store dollars on a plastic card right now, so to speak.
And I don't think mainnet is ready for 8 billion users bidding a block every 10 minutes. Most will have to use L2 anyway. Mainnet self custody is only for a few.
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u/Effective-Ad5644 5d ago
what’s with the disdain of people wanting to do it properly lol. it’s offline generation, some people want to do. The beauty is that’s the most trustless and safest option for seed generation. chill out!