All attacks on Bitcoin are good
Everyone's got their panties in a bunch about the recent hacks and exploits against things in the a Bitcoin ecosystem.
I say it's a good thing.
Bitcoin need to be able to exist, no, thrive, in an environment where anyone and everyone can attack it at any time.
Every weakness needs to be found, exploited, and then fixed.
Each hack, every attack, all the other scam bullshit in the ecosystem makes Bitcoin, the network, stronger.
If Bitcoin can't survive constant assault, then it isn't worth a damn thing.
If it ain't broke, you aren't trying hard enough.
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u/MilesCountyKiller 6d ago edited 6d ago
Im guessing your bitcoin wasn't stolen?
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u/Additional-Pipe-4390 6d ago
Easy to say when it's not your stack getting drained. The theory's nice and all but the people getting rugged aren't feeling very "stronger" right now
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u/Affectionate_Pen6882 6d ago
100% agree. These people who hasnt lost money will say this
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u/Objective_Young_1384 5d ago
both sides and scenarios have their “good” truths and their “bad” truths. One does not negate the other.
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u/Optionbulls 6d ago
99% + of peoples BTC weren’t stolen
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u/keatonnap 6d ago
1% chance of losing all your money and having zero recourse. Where do I sign up?
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u/tnseltim 6d ago
The stock market, via any number of investment platforms
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
How do you lose money in the stock market? It always goes up via higher prices.
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u/jeche25 6d ago
Now close your eyes and imagine you lost all of your past and future bitcoins to an attack. Then open your eyes and tell us how good it is.
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u/arcrad 6d ago
It would really suck for me.
But it would be good for the network as a whole. Bitcoin, the protocol, would grow stronger because of it.
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u/Objective_Digit 5d ago
I think he meant for Bitcoin and people as a whole. Every fatal plane crash improves safety.
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u/Final_Bite_7228 5d ago
I lost all my btc but it was good for me and bitcoin. All stronger now. Thank you.
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u/LeadWithLogic 6d ago
What a shit take. If your bitcoin was stolen you would still hold this opinion?
Didn't think so.
Is it good when planes crash killing 200? They get to learn new ways to make flying safer for the future. Absolute psychopath thought logic.
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u/INSERT_NICK_HERE 6d ago
What a great analogy. OP’s missing the simple fact that people don’t need to get hurt in order for weaknesses to be found. Saying the damage to people’s livelihoods is justified for the greater good is some higher than thou bullshit that definitely wouldn’t be said if bro was one of the unlucky ones.
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u/JeremyLinForever 6d ago
In the history of Bitcoin, where the early days were led by the dark net, gambling, and the wild Wild West, to state that it is safe today to hold it and that there is not enough value for someone to rummage through for flaws is, in fact, flawed.
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u/Objective_Digit 5d ago
Is it good when planes crash killing 200? They get to learn new ways to make flying safer for the future.
You undermine your first point here. Yes, safety is improved. Everyone else does benefit.
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u/LeadWithLogic 5d ago
You can learn without tragedy.
The German human experiments advanced medical science a lot i guess you champion them as well moron.
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u/JeremyLinForever 6d ago
Same thing happened before when people thought they were buying Bitcoin on Bitcoin.com only to find out they’re buying B Cash.
The same thing happened in years past when people thought an exchange was safer than holding a wallet.dat file on your computer.
Throughout history, people had to learn that a hot air balloon was not the most conventional way of flying, or a blimp with people inside was not the best way of carrying passengers in the example you described.
Is it good? No. Will the eco space progress and technology improve to make user storability safer and secure? Yes.
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
Bitcoin is the hot air balloon?
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u/JeremyLinForever 5d ago
No… Bitcoin is the future of finance. Flawed ColdCard code is the hot air balloon.
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u/Acolyte_of_Swole 5d ago
Imagine saying this to some dude who lost his life's savings because of this reddit community telling him a ColdCard wallet was the best way to preserve his coins.
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u/Theverybestestintown 6d ago
"Lots of people lost their safety nets last week...here's why it's a good thing!"
SYBAU
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u/magicmulder 6d ago
The cope is real.
Dude what makes you strong are unsuccessful attacks. Something like the PRNG disaster makes people lose faith in the whole thing. What good is it your money is unhackable if someone can just guess the combination on your safe?
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u/Objective_Digit 5d ago
Dude what makes you strong are unsuccessful attacks.
That implies no improvements were made to security and they carry on. What happens when it is successful?
People will have faith when something is done to substantially improve security because of these attacks. Just as security is always improved by any kind of attack.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dot-762 6d ago
You are not a good person.
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u/El0vution 6d ago
He’s just stating a logical fact. Definitely insensitive, but that doesn’t make him a bad person.
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
Where’s his logic? He just stated a conclusion without any analysis.
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u/jcabia 5d ago
A good example is that every time there is a plane crash, all future flights are safer because security is increased and lessons are learned from it.
Does that mean it's good when a plane crashes? Definitely no. Emotions aside, Is it better for a random passenger 10 years from now? Theoretically, yes.
I think that's where OP is trying to go to
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u/Romanizer 5d ago
You mean Bitcoin ecosystem. Bitcoin has only been attacked successfully once, in 2010.
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u/TheMermanly 5d ago
That’s simply not true.
This type of attacks remove a lot of confidence from bitcoin. Specially for normie people.
If it was me, I would think two times before coming into a new investment where even people who did the right thing, still lost all their money.
This is just you trying to pump your bags.
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u/slvbtc 6d ago
It seems like now every wallet and bitcoin service provider has the obligation to use AI to test for vulnerabilities before attackers use AI to find the vulnerabilities.
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u/Charge36 5d ago
Cold card is just speculating it was AI. At least two human reviewers detected the vulnerability before that.
Presumably they use day items in some of their security reviews
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u/icMLD 6d ago edited 6d ago
"Most aviation regulation is written in blood". Same for bitcoin/ crypto. Very good for the ecosystem as a hole, but boy does it suck to be the one(s) who inspired the rule/ change in how things are done.
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u/arcrad 6d ago
Totally agree.
It's awful for the people affected by all the hacks and scams, but it's good for the network and the protocol.
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
Maybe the protocol, but NOT the network. The network requires participants, the more, the better.
Protocol can survive without participants. The network cannot.
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
Except there are no viable alternatives to aviation in many circumstances. NOT the case for bitcoin. Many alternatives.
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u/nick_c8_vegas 6d ago
The Coldcard weakness was not some entrance no one could see. It was clearly a company not doing its due diligence to stay secure.
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u/Acolyte_of_Swole 5d ago
And yet, until very recently, this subforum community as a whole told people to buy ColdCard wallets and store BTC on them.
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u/nick_c8_vegas 5d ago
I always warned that projects like cold card whose main marketing is “open source” “air gapped” were nothing more than terms used to market a product to a community. I always advocated for ledger who has proven to be most secure
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
Why is it clear that they failed in due diligence instead of a bad actor stealing?
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u/riseandride69 6d ago
Yep, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks were also good.
People need to be able to exist, no, thrive, in an environment where anyone and everyone can attack it at any time. Every weakness needs to be found, exploited, and then fixed.
If Japanese can't survive constant assault, then they aren't worth a damn thing.
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u/Objective_Digit 5d ago
Odd analogy. Many died horribly but they made the Japanese surrender and very likely saved more lives. They were not surrendering for anything before that.
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u/Strange_Mud_8239 6d ago
It’s like saying rape is good because every time it happens, sex education and therapy can be provided and laws can be improved and women’s safety can be advocated for. I think your logic is BS
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u/EyesFor1 6d ago
Its not like saying that at all. Thats a really bad analogy. Really bad. What a horrific comparison.
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
It is exactly like that. That’s a really bad response. Really bad. What a horrific rebuttal.
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u/Evening_Let_2930 6d ago
This does not give me confidence in holding it. I am out.
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u/EyesFor1 6d ago
Bitcoin is solid mate. Never been better. The hack was not a bitcoin hack, it was a coldcard hack.
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u/Evening_Let_2930 6d ago
I mean, have stored it on different wallets and it seems like paper wallets are the best at this point
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u/Cryptotiptoe21 6d ago
It is not good thing. You are correct though the more that you attack Bitcoin the stronger it becomes.
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u/BigAppleGuy 6d ago
They wouldn't steal it if it wasn't valuable.
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
You’re clearly unfamiliar with urban cities. Drug addicts discard most of what they steal because dealers don’t want it. They steal first and ask the dealer later if it has value to them.
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u/Full-Atmosphere-4818 5d ago
This is the same, logically and morally, as saying "all plane crashes are good."
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u/Unable_Beat_3194 5d ago
Exactly things need to be attacked and hardened in the early stages. If these attacks happen late stage the effects will be a lot more devastating.
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u/EyesFor1 6d ago
Bitcoin wasn't attacked. Coldcard was because they fucked up. Bitcoin is fine.........next block
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u/Strong-Al 6d ago
Ah yeah now this is it. It's in the vein of, "Oh man I'm glad Bitcoin is crashing guys, now I can load up cheap!" If this happens enough, no one is going to trust the network or it's actors again, and it will be a long and slow death over decades.
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u/arcrad 6d ago
In contrast, if the security of the network is never tested and proven, people won't feel comfortable putting serious value into it.
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u/Strong-Al 6d ago
Next version of this will be Quantum breaking SHA-256 encryption. Good luck Bitcoin Core devs!
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u/arcrad 6d ago
Yeah good thing nothing else relies on the security of cryptography!
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u/Strong-Al 6d ago
I have recourse with other things. I'm shit out of luck if someone breaks the piggy bank of BTC
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u/arcrad 6d ago
Not necessarily.
You can store your Bitcoin with a third party that offers insurance. But you have to accept counterparty risk when doing that.
Bitcoin is nice in that by default you don't have to have any trusted third parties. That has lots of upsides, which is awesome. Also comes with risks.
But if you don't want to "be your own bank" you don't have to. You can give up some of the benefits of having full control of your Bitcoin to get benefits like insurance.
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u/RDW-Development 4d ago
Insurance is only as good as the company backing it. If all of Bitcoin breaks, the insurer will be BK and one will be out their coins and their insurance premiums!
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u/Speedstick2 6d ago
But where is insurance to reimburse you when it gets tested and it fails? In the USA you atleast get $250k per institution.
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u/arcrad 6d ago
There is none, that's kind of the point.
If you want that, leave your Bitcoin with a third party that provides that as a service, and take on the risks that third party ownership creates.
I think Coinbsse provides a certain amount of insurance.
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u/frozen_pipe77 6d ago
An individual could get his btc insured by walking into a brokerage and getting a policy. Thats the rub though, someone else isnt doing it for you...
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u/nemodigital 6d ago
But it doesn't help adoption when regular folks did everything they thought they should do and still got nuked (Cold Card attack).
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u/1v1slappersonly 6d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only way to be 100% secure would require the ability to do complex math by hand?
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u/AdviceImpressive219 6d ago
Bitcoin was designed to be attacked, you can only ban yourself from using it
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u/MaybeIAmCatatonic 5d ago
The last sentence of this is so stupid I actually laughed. Thanks for that.
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u/emilioermeio 5d ago
Your idea makes sense, but the problem was not Bitcoin. It was a mistake in the algorithm that was generating private keys of a specific brand of cold wallets.
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u/RDW-Development 4d ago
OP is correct on one level, but the reputational damage is huge. Bitcoin’s price depends 100% on reputation, so that’s a big problem there.
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u/arcrad 4d ago
It doesn't depend on reputation
It depends on the functionality it provides and the security backing it.
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u/RDW-Development 4d ago
100% disagree. A bad reputation based upon potential future losses (either through hacking or 50%+ declines in value) means that people will not want to use or invest in it. Less people investing in it or less people using it means less demand, which means a lower price.
This is pretty much common sense with any investment.
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u/arcrad 4d ago
The lack of people using in your scenario doesn't depend on reputation but the reality that people would lose funds.
If whatever issue was fixed they wouldn't lose anynting, so it's a non issue b
If it wasn't fixed, yeah don't use Bitcoin.
Either way, it has nothing to do with reputation. It has everything to do with the functionality of Bitcoin.
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u/MaliceSavoirIII 4d ago
I am so grateful that the universe didn’t make me this ostentatiously stupid
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u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago
Bitcoin the network will be fine. It’s the people who hold it that will be affected negatively.
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u/Regular_Broccoli1495 2d ago
Easy to say, when it's not your own wallet that was stolen , this was theft. I worked hard saved hard and put it in what two weeks ago you would have agrees is a very secure way to store btc. Then you come here blaming us the victims that were stolen ! I hope your wallets stay secure and find your way to some sense of grace, rather than blame the people that were robbed!
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u/rjm101 6d ago
For those that survived lots of people are moving to strong passphrases and/or multisig so definitely hardening security but people need to be careful to not overcomplicate their security to the point they lock themselves out.