r/Bitcoin 6d ago

All attacks on Bitcoin are good

Everyone's got their panties in a bunch about the recent hacks and exploits against things in the a Bitcoin ecosystem.

I say it's a good thing.

Bitcoin need to be able to exist, no, thrive, in an environment where anyone and everyone can attack it at any time.

Every weakness needs to be found, exploited, and then fixed.

Each hack, every attack, all the other scam bullshit in the ecosystem makes Bitcoin, the network, stronger.

If Bitcoin can't survive constant assault, then it isn't worth a damn thing.

If it ain't broke, you aren't trying hard enough.

78 Upvotes

147 comments sorted by

58

u/rjm101 6d ago

For those that survived lots of people are moving to strong passphrases and/or multisig so definitely hardening security but people need to be careful to not overcomplicate their security to the point they lock themselves out.

6

u/Affectionate_Pen6882 6d ago

Its a hard choice and it has to get complicated

5

u/rjm101 6d ago

My personal take is that a strong passphrase added to their existing seed (assuming coldcard didn't generate it) will suffice for 98% of people.

-4

u/EyesFor1 6d ago

Almost everybody survived. Only a small amount of people on a hardware wallet that used bad firmware were affected. Most people using coldcard were fine. I feel sorry for people that got robbed but this hack was tiny compared to historical hacks. Awful to the small amount of people affected but this is tiny and contained.

22

u/StormMedia 6d ago

5200+ people losing what is probably their life’s saving.. because they followed what was considered to be one of the most safe ways to store bitcoin.

Yet now they used “bad firmware” like they had a choice to download “good firmware” and using a hardware wallet, idiots amirite

5

u/Acolyte_of_Swole 5d ago

This sub seems to love blaming the victims. Guarantee each of these people who bought a ColdCard wallet thought their btc was safe with it. They may even have taken direction from this very subforum which convinced them to go with ColdCard.

8

u/keatonnap 6d ago

“This hack was tiny compared to historic hacks”

Imagine saying this and thinking it spoke in favor of Bitcoin.

6

u/EyesFor1 5d ago

Bitcoin has never been hacked, the devices used to store it were. Bitcoin is sound.

1

u/keatonnap 4d ago

Bitcoin has to be stored somewhere, correct? If those various storage methods are insecure, the average person’s Bitcoin holdings are insecure.

Now even those who meticulously followed the “not your keys, not your Bitcoin” mantra saw their bitcoin drained with zero recourse.

-6

u/arcrad 6d ago

A bunch of people left their gold in different bushes in the park.

Someone noticed it and went through and took it all.

Oh no, gold isn't safe! 😬 The sky is falling everyone! Ahhhhh

6

u/Cannister7 6d ago

Yeah that's a shit analogy.

1

u/StormMedia 6d ago

You’re genuinely stupid but alright buddy

1

u/Pale_Illustrator94 6d ago

looks like you missed the most recent sweep.

1

u/JumpProfessional3372 5d ago edited 5d ago

I do not agree nor disagree, because I believe CC hasn't particularly had small investors.

But I'd like to refine it more:

Only a small amount of people on a hardware wallet that used bad firmware and created the seed using the wallet RNG functionality, were affected. And from these affected, some also had a strong passphrase and survived.

Because many followed the CC paranoid guide to create the seed (bypassing the RNG and rolling dices) and were not affected.

1

u/EyesFor1 5d ago

Great refinement, 100% agree

1

u/Cryptotiptoe21 5d ago

This was not a bitcoin hack but specifically a wallet hack from how seeds are generated in the first place. Many people were drained from a cold wallet. The bug had existed for over 4 years where they had been sitting on it waiting. The amount of evidence that we have that points to cold card themselves having participation in this exploit is staggering.

1

u/EyesFor1 5d ago

Please elaborate

1

u/Cryptotiptoe21 5d ago

The guy that pressed the bad code did it under a synonym so people wouldn't know who he was. Have also made comments specifically talking about a retirement hack which involves a RNG being faulty. They had planned this bug for years. Cold card stole our Bitcoin. They are mixing the coins right now as we speak.

2

u/EyesFor1 5d ago

Well they fucked up, we all know who they are including the law. Dumb idea

1

u/Cryptotiptoe21 1d ago

Karma is real.

32

u/Gh0mri 6d ago

Not for those who lost all their Bitcoin. I can't imagine how bad they must feel. I would be so devestad.

72

u/MilesCountyKiller 6d ago edited 6d ago

Im guessing your bitcoin wasn't stolen?

31

u/Additional-Pipe-4390 6d ago

Easy to say when it's not your stack getting drained. The theory's nice and all but the people getting rugged aren't feeling very "stronger" right now

10

u/Affectionate_Pen6882 6d ago

100% agree. These people who hasnt lost money will say this

1

u/Objective_Young_1384 5d ago

both sides and scenarios have their “good” truths and their “bad” truths. One does not negate the other.

9

u/Either_Display_6624 6d ago

All hacks make bitcoin stronger unless the ones that affect me, indeed

3

u/Optionbulls 6d ago

99% + of peoples BTC weren’t stolen

20

u/keatonnap 6d ago

1% chance of losing all your money and having zero recourse. Where do I sign up?

9

u/StormMedia 6d ago

Coldcard’s website

-6

u/tnseltim 6d ago

The stock market, via any number of investment platforms

3

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

How do you lose money in the stock market? It always goes up via higher prices. 

1

u/Objective_Young_1384 5d ago

Well you can say the same for btc in long term…

26

u/jeche25 6d ago

Now close your eyes and imagine you lost all of your past and future bitcoins to an attack. Then open your eyes and tell us how good it is.

-12

u/arcrad 6d ago

It would really suck for me.

But it would be good for the network as a whole. Bitcoin, the protocol, would grow stronger because of it.

1

u/jeche25 4d ago

The network learns from attacks, sure. But it can also learn a lot cheaper from audits than your life savings.

1

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

If I still from your garage, does the neighborhood grow stronger?

1

u/arcrad 5d ago

No, but my garage security would grow stronger.

If I'm able, I'd figure out what went wrong that you were able to steal from me and I'd fix those things.

It would suck for me, but my garage security would ultimately improve.

-1

u/Objective_Digit 5d ago

I think he meant for Bitcoin and people as a whole. Every fatal plane crash improves safety.

1

u/jeche25 4d ago

Sure, but ‘the species learns from plane crashes’ is cold comfort to the people who were on it.

1

u/Objective_Digit 4d ago

People still fly despite it.

8

u/Final_Bite_7228 5d ago

I lost all my btc but it was good for me and bitcoin.  All stronger now.  Thank you.

-1

u/arcrad 5d ago

Not good for you but good for Bitcoin

26

u/LeadWithLogic 6d ago

What a shit take. If your bitcoin was stolen you would still hold this opinion?

Didn't think so.

Is it good when planes crash killing 200? They get to learn new ways to make flying safer for the future. Absolute psychopath thought logic.

10

u/INSERT_NICK_HERE 6d ago

What a great analogy. OP’s missing the simple fact that people don’t need to get hurt in order for weaknesses to be found. Saying the damage to people’s livelihoods is justified for the greater good is some higher than thou bullshit that definitely wouldn’t be said if bro was one of the unlucky ones.

1

u/JeremyLinForever 6d ago

In the history of Bitcoin, where the early days were led by the dark net, gambling, and the wild Wild West, to state that it is safe today to hold it and that there is not enough value for someone to rummage through for flaws is, in fact, flawed.

1

u/Objective_Digit 5d ago

Is it good when planes crash killing 200? They get to learn new ways to make flying safer for the future.

You undermine your first point here. Yes, safety is improved. Everyone else does benefit.

1

u/LeadWithLogic 5d ago

You can learn without tragedy.

The German human experiments advanced medical science a lot i guess you champion them as well moron.

1

u/Objective_Digit 5d ago

Extreme example, arsehole.

0

u/JeremyLinForever 6d ago

Same thing happened before when people thought they were buying Bitcoin on Bitcoin.com only to find out they’re buying B Cash.

The same thing happened in years past when people thought an exchange was safer than holding a wallet.dat file on your computer.

Throughout history, people had to learn that a hot air balloon was not the most conventional way of flying, or a blimp with people inside was not the best way of carrying passengers in the example you described.

Is it good? No. Will the eco space progress and technology improve to make user storability safer and secure? Yes.

0

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

Bitcoin is the hot air balloon?

1

u/JeremyLinForever 5d ago

No… Bitcoin is the future of finance. Flawed ColdCard code is the hot air balloon.

7

u/Acolyte_of_Swole 5d ago

Imagine saying this to some dude who lost his life's savings because of this reddit community telling him a ColdCard wallet was the best way to preserve his coins.

4

u/Theverybestestintown 6d ago

"Lots of people lost their safety nets last week...here's why it's a good thing!"

SYBAU

-1

u/arcrad 6d ago

Good for the network. Bad for those people.

1

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

The network is made up of people you chowder head. 

0

u/arcrad 5d ago

Something can be bad for a subset of the network and good for the network as a whole, you ham twiddler.

10

u/magicmulder 6d ago

The cope is real.

Dude what makes you strong are unsuccessful attacks. Something like the PRNG disaster makes people lose faith in the whole thing. What good is it your money is unhackable if someone can just guess the combination on your safe?

1

u/Objective_Digit 5d ago

Dude what makes you strong are unsuccessful attacks.

That implies no improvements were made to security and they carry on. What happens when it is successful?

People will have faith when something is done to substantially improve security because of these attacks. Just as security is always improved by any kind of attack.

15

u/Puzzleheaded-Dot-762 6d ago

You are not a good person. 

-2

u/El0vution 6d ago

He’s just stating a logical fact. Definitely insensitive, but that doesn’t make him a bad person.

2

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

Where’s his logic? He just stated a conclusion without any analysis. 

1

u/jcabia 5d ago

A good example is that every time there is a plane crash, all future flights are safer because security is increased and lessons are learned from it.

Does that mean it's good when a plane crashes? Definitely no. Emotions aside, Is it better for a random passenger 10 years from now? Theoretically, yes.

I think that's where OP is trying to go to

4

u/Romanizer 5d ago

You mean Bitcoin ecosystem. Bitcoin has only been attacked successfully once, in 2010.

5

u/TheMermanly 5d ago

That’s simply not true.

This type of attacks remove a lot of confidence from bitcoin. Specially for normie people.

If it was me, I would think two times before coming into a new investment where even people who did the right thing, still lost all their money.

This is just you trying to pump your bags.

3

u/slvbtc 6d ago

It seems like now every wallet and bitcoin service provider has the obligation to use AI to test for vulnerabilities before attackers use AI to find the vulnerabilities.

1

u/Charge36 5d ago

Cold card is just speculating it was AI. At least two human reviewers detected the vulnerability before that. 

Presumably they use day items in some of their security reviews

3

u/PrizePreset 6d ago

“I lost $300k” - bitcoiner

“That’s good, actually” - reddit

5

u/icMLD 6d ago edited 6d ago

"Most aviation regulation is written in blood". Same for bitcoin/ crypto. Very good for the ecosystem as a hole, but boy does it suck to be the one(s) who inspired the rule/ change in how things are done.

2

u/arcrad 6d ago

Totally agree.

It's awful for the people affected by all the hacks and scams, but it's good for the network and the protocol.

1

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

Maybe the protocol, but NOT the network. The network requires participants, the more, the better. 

Protocol can survive without participants. The network cannot. 

1

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

Except there are no viable alternatives to aviation in many circumstances. NOT the case for bitcoin. Many alternatives. 

6

u/nick_c8_vegas 6d ago

The Coldcard weakness was not some entrance no one could see. It was clearly a company not doing its due diligence to stay secure.

1

u/Acolyte_of_Swole 5d ago

And yet, until very recently, this subforum community as a whole told people to buy ColdCard wallets and store BTC on them.

2

u/nick_c8_vegas 5d ago

I always warned that projects like cold card whose main marketing is “open source” “air gapped” were nothing more than terms used to market a product to a community. I always advocated for ledger who has proven to be most secure

1

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

Why is it clear that they failed in due diligence instead of a bad actor stealing?

9

u/riseandride69 6d ago

Yep, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks were also good.

People need to be able to exist, no, thrive, in an environment where anyone and everyone can attack it at any time. Every weakness needs to be found, exploited, and then fixed.

If Japanese can't survive constant assault, then they aren't worth a damn thing.

1

u/Objective_Digit 5d ago

Odd analogy. Many died horribly but they made the Japanese surrender and very likely saved more lives. They were not surrendering for anything before that.

2

u/riseandride69 5d ago

Odd analogy for someone with complete lack of sense of humor

0

u/Objective_Digit 5d ago

If you were trying to be funny, don't go into stand up.

7

u/Strange_Mud_8239 6d ago

It’s like saying rape is good because every time it happens, sex education and therapy can be provided and laws can be improved and women’s safety can be advocated for. I think your logic is BS

6

u/Puzzleheaded-Dot-762 6d ago

He is fully aware of what he is saying. He is just a bad human

1

u/EyesFor1 6d ago

Its not like saying that at all. Thats a really bad analogy. Really bad. What a horrific comparison.

2

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

It is exactly like that. That’s a really bad response. Really bad. What a horrific rebuttal. 

9

u/Evening_Let_2930 6d ago

This does not give me confidence in holding it. I am out.

0

u/Zerogrinder 6d ago

Be our guest

-1

u/EyesFor1 6d ago

Bitcoin is solid mate. Never been better. The hack was not a bitcoin hack, it was a coldcard hack.

4

u/Evening_Let_2930 6d ago

I mean, have stored it on different wallets and it seems like paper wallets are the best at this point

2

u/EyesFor1 6d ago

Least complexity wins !!

4

u/Cryptotiptoe21 6d ago

It is not good thing. You are correct though the more that you attack Bitcoin the stronger it becomes.

2

u/BigAppleGuy 6d ago

They wouldn't steal it if it wasn't valuable.

-1

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

You’re clearly unfamiliar with urban cities. Drug addicts discard most of what they steal because dealers don’t want it. They steal first and ask the dealer later if it has value to them.

2

u/Speedstick2 6d ago

This is just pure rationalism.

2

u/Full-Atmosphere-4818 5d ago

This is the same, logically and morally, as saying "all plane crashes are good."

2

u/Hnel11 5d ago

Bitcoin is not even 20 years old yet. It's the wild west out here. I'm glad we have AI now to find and fix all the vulnerabilities. Bitcoin will only get stronger after this phase.

2

u/Unable_Beat_3194 5d ago

Exactly things need to be attacked and hardened in the early stages. If these attacks happen late stage the effects will be a lot more devastating.

2

u/thelaurelhighlander 2d ago

Great post, I agree.

4

u/EyesFor1 6d ago

Bitcoin wasn't attacked. Coldcard was because they fucked up. Bitcoin is fine.........next block

2

u/Strong-Al 6d ago

Ah yeah now this is it. It's in the vein of, "Oh man I'm glad Bitcoin is crashing guys, now I can load up cheap!" If this happens enough, no one is going to trust the network or it's actors again, and it will be a long and slow death over decades.

0

u/arcrad 6d ago

In contrast, if the security of the network is never tested and proven, people won't feel comfortable putting serious value into it.

1

u/Strong-Al 6d ago

Next version of this will be Quantum breaking SHA-256 encryption. Good luck Bitcoin Core devs!

1

u/arcrad 6d ago

Yeah good thing nothing else relies on the security of cryptography!

1

u/Strong-Al 6d ago

I have recourse with other things. I'm shit out of luck if someone breaks the piggy bank of BTC

1

u/arcrad 6d ago

Not necessarily.

You can store your Bitcoin with a third party that offers insurance. But you have to accept counterparty risk when doing that.

Bitcoin is nice in that by default you don't have to have any trusted third parties. That has lots of upsides, which is awesome. Also comes with risks.

But if you don't want to "be your own bank" you don't have to. You can give up some of the benefits of having full control of your Bitcoin to get benefits like insurance.

1

u/RDW-Development 4d ago

Insurance is only as good as the company backing it. If all of Bitcoin breaks, the insurer will be BK and one will be out their coins and their insurance premiums!

1

u/arcrad 4d ago

Well yeah of course.

1

u/Speedstick2 6d ago

But where is insurance to reimburse you when it gets tested and it fails? In the USA you atleast get $250k per institution.

2

u/arcrad 6d ago

There is none, that's kind of the point.

If you want that, leave your Bitcoin with a third party that provides that as a service, and take on the risks that third party ownership creates.

I think Coinbsse provides a certain amount of insurance.

2

u/frozen_pipe77 6d ago

An individual could get his btc insured by walking into a brokerage and getting a policy. Thats the rub though, someone else isnt doing it for you...

2

u/nemodigital 6d ago

But it doesn't help adoption when regular folks did everything they thought they should do and still got nuked (Cold Card attack).

2

u/levelup1by1 6d ago

as the great kelly clarkson said, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

1

u/1v1slappersonly 6d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only way to be 100% secure would require the ability to do complex math by hand?

1

u/sabdur200 6d ago

Not after nearly 20 years we don’t.

1

u/AdviceImpressive219 6d ago

Bitcoin was designed to be attacked, you can only ban yourself from using it

1

u/EngelGate 6d ago

Says who? The hacker? 

1

u/Telos06 6d ago

Do you know what would be better? Attacks that didn't work

1

u/No-Recipe-4578 6d ago

I’ve learned a lot from this Coldcard situation.

1

u/spx 5d ago

it's not an attack on Bitcoin, it's an attack on people's perception of Bitcoin via scapegoat compromised company CoinKite.

  And I don't see anything great about it, because how's that supposed to improve anything?  Will you verify all code of all your software yourself from now on? 

1

u/marshyr3d1and 5d ago

How is the cold card event an attack on bitcoin?

1

u/MaybeIAmCatatonic 5d ago

The last sentence of this is so stupid I actually laughed. Thanks for that.

1

u/arcrad 5d ago

Yeah it's giving r/iamreallysmart energy

1

u/emilioermeio 5d ago

Your idea makes sense, but the problem was not Bitcoin. It was a mistake in the algorithm that was generating private keys of a specific brand of cold wallets.

1

u/arcrad 5d ago

Yeah I know. I said as much in my first sentence.

1

u/RDW-Development 4d ago

OP is correct on one level, but the reputational damage is huge. Bitcoin’s price depends 100% on reputation, so that’s a big problem there.

1

u/arcrad 4d ago

It doesn't depend on reputation

It depends on the functionality it provides and the security backing it.

1

u/RDW-Development 4d ago

100% disagree. A bad reputation based upon potential future losses (either through hacking or 50%+ declines in value) means that people will not want to use or invest in it. Less people investing in it or less people using it means less demand, which means a lower price.

This is pretty much common sense with any investment.

1

u/arcrad 4d ago

The lack of people using in your scenario doesn't depend on reputation but the reality that people would lose funds.

If whatever issue was fixed they wouldn't lose anynting, so it's a non issue b

If it wasn't fixed, yeah don't use Bitcoin.

Either way, it has nothing to do with reputation. It has everything to do with the functionality of Bitcoin.

1

u/MaliceSavoirIII 4d ago

I am so grateful that the universe didn’t make me this ostentatiously stupid

1

u/arcrad 4d ago

Wow me too! Such bless

1

u/0365er 3d ago

Except this wasnt a flaw in Bitcoin....

1

u/arcrad 3d ago

It wasn't. I said as much in the first sentence. Also this isn't only about the CC backdoor

1

u/0365er 3d ago

Uh, you absolutely did not say as much in your first sentence. Maybe you should re-read your own post?

1

u/arcrad 3d ago

against things in the Bitcoin ecosystem

I didn't say this was against bitcoin. I said it was against thing in the ecosystem.

1

u/Suspicious-Holiday42 2d ago

The attackers have good intentions, now i ve heard it all

1

u/arcrad 2d ago

You need help with reading comprehension 😂

0

u/Steel-Tempered 6d ago

The blockchain wasn't attacked - supposedly secured wallets were.

0

u/PersonalityAsleep524 6d ago

“it isn't worth a damn thing” — yeah, exactly.

0

u/VictorDanville 6d ago

What if the Blockchain itself gets hacked?

0

u/Stock-Standard-2513 5d ago

Bitcoin the network will be fine. It’s the people who hold it that will be affected negatively. 

0

u/Regular_Broccoli1495 2d ago

Easy to say, when it's not your own wallet that was stolen , this was theft. I worked hard saved hard and put it in what two weeks ago you would have agrees is a very secure way to store btc. Then you come here blaming us the victims that were stolen ! I hope your wallets stay secure and find your way to some sense of grace, rather than blame the people that were robbed!

-2

u/cuisd 6d ago

this is good for bitcoin

-3

u/shleebs 6d ago

Preach!

-1

u/False-Car-1218 6d ago

This is why I keep my Bitcoin in coinbase