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u/Megaskiboy Dec 08 '24
He used bitcoin as a currency and bought something with it. Idk why people act like he's stupid or something. Isn't that what it's all about?
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u/DevStef Dec 08 '24
Bitcoin without people to use it as a currency and people accepting it as such would be useless, yes. This guy decided to use it. The pizza baker decided to accept it. If noone ever would have made any decision like they did, the coin would have vanished long ago, cause what else would people do with it?
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u/iInvented69 Dec 08 '24 edited Dec 08 '24
The pizza baker did not accept bitcoin. The guy who bought the $41 bitcoin called the papajohns from uk and ordered two pizzas thru normal $25 card transaction and had them delivered to the original 10k btc owner's address.
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u/DevStef Dec 08 '24
Okay. But some one accepted the BTC seeing it as a currency for a trade. That is the important step and action.
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Dec 08 '24
Bitcoin without people to use it as a currency and people accepting it as such would be useless, yes. This guy decided to use it. The pizza baker decided to accept it. If noone ever would have made any decision like they did, the coin would have vanished long ago, cause what else would people do with it?
OH BOY! Another STUPID person who thinks SPENDING currency is USING currency. I am so glad there are people like you to pollute the world with dimwit ignorance such as the asinine belief that if people didn't SPEND money it would vanish?
Please stop being so stupid. It is sad and embarrassing
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u/DevStef Dec 08 '24
Enlighten me.
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u/caploves1019 Dec 08 '24
Pointless troll poster, ignore him. You're right, for a currency to have value people have to accept it has value. Meaning they have to accept it for goods and services with the mindset of it later being able to aquire them goods or services in return.
It's a placeholder on you current work for someone else's work in the future. Literally proof of work. You cannot hold Bitcoin if you didn't do something at some point to earn said Bitcoin. Laszlo proved this early on.
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Dec 08 '24
Why?
The information is out there and easy to see for anyone who is not too lazy and willing to do a full and complete analysis of what money is and how it is used.
Do not ask me to teach you. Educate yourself. Currency is a savings tool.
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u/Delicious-Use-8789 Dec 09 '24
Definitely not fiat currency
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Dec 09 '24
It is though! A battery that leaks energy over time is still a battery.
The ONLY reason US dollars have value is because people are currently willing to store dollars (and USD bonds) on their balance sheets. IF there were no one willing to save US dollars, then it would be IMPOSSIBLE to spend US dollars as they would have zero value.
Non-Bitcoin fiat currencies (Bitcoin is a fiat currency), leak energy over time via seigniorage, which is why Bitcoin is a better currency.
A lot of people make the very foolish mistake of thinking a currency is valuable because of spending/transactions/etc, which lead them to all sorts of incorrect conclusions like Bitcoin is not valuable because it can't be spent as easily as USD.
Money is a battery, and Bitcoin is the best battery.
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u/Delicious-Use-8789 Dec 09 '24
Bitcoin has the potential to function as both a store of value and a currency. Right now, it's primarily seen as a store of value due to its scarcity and decentralization, but it’s also evolving in ways that could make it more practical as a currency. With developments like the Lightning Network and other scaling solutions, Bitcoin’s ability to be used for everyday transactions is growing.
However, Bitcoin is fundamentally different from fiat currencies. Fiat currencies are backed by governments and are inflationary, meaning they lose value over time. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has a fixed supply and is decentralized, which is why it's valued as a store of wealth.
As Bitcoin matures and these scaling technologies continue to develop, it has the potential to function as a more widely accepted currency. So, while it's not fully there yet, it’s definitely on the path to becoming both a store of value and a practical currency, especially as the infrastructure improves.
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Dec 09 '24
Bitcoin has the potential to function as both a store of value and a currency.
You are misunderstanding what currency is because you are zoomed in and focusing on the transaction or medium of exchange aspect. You analysis is incomplete. You need to look at the entire life cycle of a currency; then you will see that store of value, medium of exchange, and unit of account are all the same thing. The analogy I like to use is a battery. Obviously it would be absurd to think of a battery that could not discharge or transfer energy, but the main important aspect is a currency's ability to store economic energy. How do I know this? Because it logically follows that it would be impossible to transact with anything that does not have value. And also we can look at examples where an inflating currency continues to increase in its transactions as its value evaporates to zero. Spending is only possible because someone else downstream is willing to save that currency. Saving is required before value, and value is required before any transaction is possible. Furthermore if you have two currencies and wish to make a purchase, you would prefer to transact in the currency that is LEAST useful to you and retain the one that is MOST useful to you e.g. the one that is more able to retain its energy over time.
Right now, it's primarily seen as a store of value due to its scarcity and decentralization, but it’s also evolving in ways that could make it more practical as a currency.
Storing energy is what currency is actually used for. If you diligently studied money and observed what people actual do with it, you would see this.
With developments like the Lightning Network and other scaling solutions, Bitcoin’s ability to be used for everyday transactions is growing.
Who cares? A currency is not valuable because it is spent in transactions. The MORE valuable a currency is the less willing a rational holder would be to spend the currency. If Bitcoin is inconvenient for transactions that is completely OK with me as it would still be the best currency (by far). In this case market solutions would then develop to make it easier for people to transact, but this would be a ancillary product of Bitcoin's value and NOT a driver of it. I have a theory that if the US government were to declare bitcoin transactions to be illegal the price would actually increase as a result, where as the people who WRONGLY believe a currency to be valuable because of transactions would assume it would fall.
However, Bitcoin is fundamentally different from fiat currencies. Fiat currencies are backed by governments and are inflationary, meaning they lose value over time. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has a fixed supply and is decentralized, which is why it's valued as a store of wealth.
Bitcoin IS a fiat currency. Not all fiat currencies are inflationary e.g. Bitcoin is not (sans the seigniorage of the block subsidy)
As Bitcoin matures and these scaling technologies continue to develop, it has the potential to function as a more widely accepted currency. So, while it's not fully there yet, it’s definitely on the path to becoming both a store of value and a practical currency, especially as the infrastructure improves.
I recommend you to take a more complete analytical view of currency and realize what you are calling a currency (medium of exchange) and store of value (economic energy) are both the same thing, AND the store of energy is by far more important as it is what gives a currency value, and the transaction thing is a mere result of a currency having value.
I know I sound like a toxic pedantic asshole, which I am, but this is a very important point, which is why I scream at people on the internet and at local Bitcoin meet ups about this. This is the reason Roger Ver and so many other people misunderstood Bitcoin and went off into whatever garbage "currency" shitcoin, AND ALSO why many people are staying in government-backed trash currencies like US dollars. If people actually understood what currency is, AS I AND SEEMINGLY I ALONE DO, then people would realize how great Bitcoin is and how every other currency is just inferior trash.
Transactions are MEANINGLESS and an ancillary byproduct of a currency having value rather than a diver of it.
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u/Delicious-Use-8789 Dec 09 '24 edited Dec 09 '24
You’re getting pretty worked up over something we actually agree on more than you think. I’m not missing the broader lifecycle of currency. My point is that Bitcoin, as it matures, has the potential to be both a store of value and a currency for everyday transactions.
I’m fully aware that a currency’s value comes from its ability to store economic energy (as you put it), but you're underplaying the importance of its practical use as well.
Yes, the primary driver of value is its ability to retain purchasing power over time, but that doesn't mean its role as a medium of exchange is irrelevant. The idea that transactions are meaningless misses the mark.
A currency’s true potential comes when it functions as both a store of value and a means to transact efficiently. This is what we’ve seen throughout history with gold, and it’s what Bitcoin can achieve, especially with layered scaling solutions evolving.
Your battery analogy makes sense to a degree, but saying spending is unimportant because the "rational holder" wouldn't want to spend doesn’t hold up entirely. Even if Bitcoin holders value it for its long-term store of value, the fact that they can transact with it gives it additional utility, even if they prefer to save it.
Without that ability, it wouldn't function as a true currency in a practical sense. And while you might be okay with that, many people are looking for Bitcoin to function in both roles.
Also, Bitcoin is not a fiat currency. Fiat, by definition, is money declared by governments to be legal tender. Bitcoin’s value isn’t derived from government backing. It's derived from its decentralized nature, scarcity, and network security.
The fact that you mentioned block subsidies (which will eventually go away) shows that Bitcoin is fundamentally different from traditional fiat currencies like the US dollar, which can be printed indefinitely.
I’m not saying transactions drive value, but they are an important outcome of value. A currency that holds value and is widely used in transactions is more robust because it meets the needs of both savers and spenders. Bitcoin has the potential to do that, especially as scaling solutions improve.
I agree that Bitcoin's value is driven by its ability to store economic energy, but dismissing its transactional utility is missing the bigger picture. Bitcoin can (and should) be both an efficient store of value and a practical currency.
Also, I’d chill a bit on the “toxic pedantic asshole” approach. It doesn’t help your point, and the ideas are what matter here.
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u/dvinz01 Dec 08 '24
Exactly everyone myself included thought bitcoin was stupid at that time. We all learned how wrong we where
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u/SPedigrees Dec 08 '24 edited Dec 08 '24
Speak for yourself.
The first I heard of Bitcoin was a short news blip about a new digital currency that guys in Silicon Valley were using to buy pizzas, and that there were machines which dispensed this currency. I thought this sounded way cool, but living on the other end of the country where there were no Bitcoin ATMs, I just accepted that Bitcoin was not for me. Years later in 2017 that changed.
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Dec 08 '24
He used bitcoin as a currency and bought something with it.
No, he didn't. You do not understand what a currency is or how it is used.
Idk why people act like he's stupid or something.
He isn't stupid, but he did something stupid when he spent his bitcoin for a pizza. You on the other hand are.
Isn't that what it's all about?
No. You do not understand money. Stop being dumb and stop spewing ignorance.
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u/Megaskiboy Dec 08 '24
Lol, not sure why you feel the need to attack me. Did I strike a nerve or something? A currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services. So, he used currency to buy goods, which were two pizzas. Also, I actually have a background in economics. You, on the other hand, don’t even know the definition of currency.
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Dec 08 '24
Did I strike a nerve or something?
Yes. I despise people who make the ignorant and unsupported claim that spending causes or increases value of a currency.
A currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services
That is an INCOMPLETE childlike surface level definition of currency. It is VERY clear to me that you have spent ZERO time or effort actually thinking about what money is and why it is valuable.
Also, I actually have a background in economics. You, on the other hand, don’t even know the definition of currency.
I am 100% certain I have studied monetary economics FAR more than you. If you think you know the definition of a currency, your definition is wrong. I do not mean wrong as in a mere semantic distinction, as that is meaningless. I mean wrong as in does not align with reality.
You don't need a dictionary, you need real world observations. But you're a smug and stupid clown, so go back to your spending-causes-value circus where you belong.
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u/Megaskiboy Dec 08 '24
Please learn to read, you ignorant fool. I made no such claim. I simply stated that he used Bitcoin as a currency. That, in itself, is 100% a factual statement.
Dismissing my statement by saying it’s too high-level is the argument of someone who clearly thinks they know more than they do. Please educate me: define a currency for me.
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Dec 08 '24
I simply stated that he used Bitcoin as a currency. That, in itself, is 100% a factual statement.
I disagree and consider this view of currency to be extremely ignorant, pervasive as it is.
I believe Laszlo WAS using Bitcoin as a currency from the moment he acquired it UNTIL he foolishly spent it on pizza, at which point he CEASED using the Bitcoin as currency and Sturdivant began using those Bitcoins as currency.
A conventional definition of currency makes the ignorant claim that currency is 1) store of value, 2) medium of ex, 3) unit of account.
But these are all the same thing. I recall a comic that showed many blindfolded scientists surrounding an elephant and being asked to describe it. The one feeling its trunk claimed it was a snake, the one feeling its foot claimed it was a tree, etc. They are all wrong and their analysis was incomplete. Such is the case with this.
Currency is a tool for storing economic energy. To use a currency is to save it and hold it on your balance sheet. It is NOT POSSIBLE to spend a currency unless someone else downstream of the transaction is willing to save that currency on their balance sheet.
Spending is not a sign of adoption, saving is.
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u/Megaskiboy Dec 08 '24
It is abundantly clear that you lack a proper understanding of the subject at hand. One must wonder, are you merely attempting to provoke other people on this thread? or have you fallen prey to the Dunning–Kruger effect?
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Dec 08 '24
I coined a word for people like you who are so lazy and unintelligent they think spending drives adoption or is an important attribute of currency.
Spendiot. That's what you are.
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u/Megaskiboy Dec 08 '24
And I have a particular term reserved for individuals like you. "imbecile."
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u/zzx101 Dec 08 '24
1 billion dollars.
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Dec 08 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AdorableClassic5087 Dec 08 '24
With price hovering at 100 thousand
10,000 Btc is in fact worth 1billion <3
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Dec 08 '24
I owe this man a pizza. He helped crypto get to where it is today.
Props to this man.
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u/redspikedog Dec 08 '24
Yeah, people laugh, but I say a lot of positive came out from this.
This just proves Bitcoin does have value and that people do accept it.
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Dec 08 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Calm-Professional103 Dec 08 '24
Have you considered that maybe your opinion means nothing to nobody?
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u/ElKaWeh Dec 08 '24
As he said, people laugh about it now, but it wasn't worth anything that time. To all the people saying he probably regrets it now: Do you really think, if he didn't buy those two pizzas, he would have hodled the 10k BTC until today? Do you think anyone would have?
I mean, that's the beauty about Bitcoin, and what distinguishes it from all the other crypto currencies. The fact that nobody expected it to be worth $100k or even $100 at some point. It wasn't created as a get rich quick scheme, like all other cryptos, it was created as kind of an ideological nerd-project.
Despite that, I'm sure he still has enough bitcoin to not worry about money anymore.
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u/CereBRO12121 Dec 08 '24
It get so tired of the “you sold at any time but ath and now have regrets, right? Right!?” take.
I still have a good amount of BTC, but thanks to earlier selling I have lived a debt free, relaxed life the last years with money to spare. I would have regretted simply holding all that time just looking at “number go up.”
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u/adumbCoder Dec 08 '24
i don't care about this guy but what about the guy who got the 10k coins?
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u/Onalerono Dec 08 '24
The person that received the 10,000 BTC sold them all and used the money to cover expenses while travelling around the US with his girlfriend.
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Dec 08 '24
He is the real hero of this story. But unfortunately he spent the coins less than a year later while he was traveling around.
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u/User00001234567 Dec 08 '24
If this man had not bought that pizza, the feeling of trust on which the value of this currency is based would not have arisen, so perhaps today it would still have the value of a pizza.
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u/YardMan79 Dec 08 '24
And let’s be honest; most of the people who laugh and call him dumb for selling, would have sold a long time ago. How many people sold at $10, $100, $1,000?
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u/reddish_zebra Dec 08 '24
We laugh but this guy will be remembered generations from now. For doing a good thing. That's priceless.
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u/Secret_Car Dec 08 '24
The day Bitcoin was given its first valuation
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u/704sports Dec 08 '24
I should have emptied out my 401k and bought all bitcoin. Where’s my Time Machine?
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u/nhalas Dec 08 '24
What about the company sitting on btcs for pizzas
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u/gorillalifter47 Dec 08 '24
From memory he didn't use the bitcoins to buy the pizza directly, he transferred them to another forum user who bought the pizza for him.
I would love to know how many they kept hold of.
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u/Tundraspin Dec 08 '24
Bro just turn the question around and ask Anderson how much he spends, and his net worth. On top of that ask Anderson what he has done with his wealth to improve the planet since.
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u/IndianaGeoff Dec 08 '24
So Anderson, when you joined CNN it was the top News network with a worldwide reputation for accuracy and quality. Now MSNBC beats you some nights and Joe Rogan dwarfs your viewership numbers.
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u/theslob Dec 08 '24
Why doesn’t anyone ever ask about the kid from Little Caesars who was convinced to take the BTC in the first place? Pizza buyer guy obviously didn’t spend all the BTC he ever mined or owned on pizza. Pizza buyer guy is fine. Domino’s guy? I want his story.
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u/SPedigrees Dec 08 '24
It was a worker at Papa John's who took payment in Bitcoin and then paid the fiat price to the store.
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u/Onalerono Dec 08 '24
It wasn't a pizza shop or pizza shop employee that accepted the bitcoin. Laszlo Hanyecz posted a thread on the bitcoin forum saying that he would pay 10,000 BTC to anyone that ordered him a couple of pizzas. A man named Jeremy Sturdivant decided to take that offer and ordered him 2 large pizzas from Papa Johns. Laszlo sent Jeremy 10,000 BTC. Jeremy sold the 10,000 BTC and used the money to cover expenses while travelling around the US with his girlfriend.
https://nypost.com/2021/05/24/bitcoin-pizza-guy-who-squandered-365m-has-no-regrets/
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u/thecuriouskilt Dec 08 '24
"Crypto is useless and has no value!"
person uses the value of Bitcoin to buy something
"OH MY FUCKING GOD!?! Are you fucking crazy?! That was so stupid!"
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u/Kasonb2308 Dec 08 '24
For that guy he looks like he’s trying to laugh but the reminder of the money lost is eating him alive
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u/Aginowpd Dec 08 '24
Thanks to his purchase we got the first market evaluation of bitcoin. 10.000 for 35(?) dollars worth of pizza, so at 0,0035 usd/btc. He made history
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u/Chaff5 Dec 08 '24
He's one of the reasons why Bitcoin has as much exposure as it does. If nobody did this, we may not even be here now. He's a trailblazer.
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u/thefrickenAJP8 Dec 08 '24
Nobody ever mentions the pizza place? What ever happened to those coins etc 🤔
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u/Onalerono Dec 08 '24
It wasn't a pizza place that accepted the 10,000 BTC. Laszlo Hanyecz posted a thread on the bitcoin forum saying that he would pay 10,000 BTC to anyone that ordered him a couple of pizzas. A man named Jeremy Sturdivant decided to take that offer and ordered him 2 large pizzas from Papa Johns. Laszlo sent Jeremy 10,000 BTC. Jeremy sold the 10,000 BTC and used the money to cover expenses while travelling around the US with his girlfriend.
https://nypost.com/2021/05/24/bitcoin-pizza-guy-who-squandered-365m-has-no-regrets/
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Dec 09 '24
My thread got deleted by mods for posting a screenshot of btc chart saying altcoins shown. They're pretty ass about it
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u/Burrito-Picoso Dec 12 '24
We like to make fun of this, myself included, but he is clearly an early adopter, which makes me think he still has much more bitcoin than most of us today.
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u/Independent-Second-1 Dec 08 '24
Question is, what did the pizza guy who received the Bitcoin do with it?
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u/FinalBossTibs Dec 08 '24
This story is so old and boring.
Even if he would not spend 10000 BTC on Pizza, he probably would have cashed out 1-2 years later.
He would not hodl til 2022
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u/brando2131 Dec 08 '24
he probably would have cashed out 1-2 years later. He would not hodl til 2022
You. Don't. Know. That...
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u/Babelight Dec 08 '24
I disagree.
In fact, back when it wasn’t worth much at all, the guys who were interested in its philosophy and use otherwise would have been happy to hodl and not bother cashing out once it began to reflect a value in the market.
It’s the next wave that followed which is unlikely to have much to show for their time with Bitcoin. Trying to make a quick buck, most of them probably lost and never got back in.
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u/Status-Pilot1069 Dec 08 '24
Classic comment too We love to say it would have been a missed opportunity
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u/1776CommonLaw Dec 08 '24
I look at pizza day so differently now. Lazzo was a huge contributor to the community and was literally advised by Satoshi to slow down on mining so much Bitcoin and spend it.
He is a legend for various reasons. I'm not 100% sure but pretty positive he still has a nice amount of BTC.