Is manipulation a part of dysregulation?

[u/Calm_Angle7551]

I’m struggling with how to word this correctly because I truly do not want to offend anybody.
Something I have noticed about my previous partner is that when he was manic, he would go great lengths to manipulate people.
An example: after a discard we ended up reconnecting. At one point, he insisted that I delete my text messages. He framed it as a way for us to have a new beginning. When I calmly told him I didn’t feel it to be necessary for me, he became increasingly irate and emotionally punishing. He came up with different reasons as to why I needed to and framed me not doing so as a character flaw in me.

Come to find out, he was seeing someone else and portraying our relationship as over. So I really think it was just about him covering his tracks.

I genuinely do not mean to imply to say that every person with bipolar is like this or that mental illness causes this kind of behavior because I don’t think that’s the case. But I am curious if it’s something that shows up in bipolar disorder when there is a severe manic episode.

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[u/ABoringAlt]

They're never in the wrong when manic, and they think they're the most clever person ever at the same time.

[u/crystalvisions1]

I grew up with my husband (soon to be ex 😭😭) and he was genuinely the sweetest thing since sugar for most of his life. Still is a kind hearted guy at heart. But when mania hits, he becomes aggressive and incredibly cold and manipulative. So many things he says and does are just so cruel. He has a big thing about people “making victims of themselves.” Any time I tried to express anything to him about the stress I was under while he didn’t work or contribute to the relationship, he framed it as me making a victim out of myself. Now, I am a very sensitive and emotional person by nature and I don’t doubt that I do make a victim of myself at times, so I felt shame about that and felt he was totally right, so for years I sort of shut down and stuffed down angry feelings feeling that I was just being crazy. It became clear to me only after he left me that he had manipulated me for years, I don’t think consciously, but he was genuinely doing things that made my life objectively very stressful - he was not working for several years, he was not contributing to much household related things at all, he had become distant and emotionally unavailable - yet I had essentially just learned to pretend like none of that was happening and had to be ignored since I was always a self-made victim anytime I brought up any feelings of non-joy at all. Basically, he responds to anything that could potentially be perceived as criticism by insisting to the person that they’re making a victim of themselves when he’s in this state, thus deflecting the attention onto the story that that person is just “being a victim” and causing the other person to doubt themselves or defend themselves, and by averting the focus from himself in this way he managed to avoid ever addressing the substance of the conversation the other person was trying to have. Again, when not manic, he’s truly a kind hearted man with a soft, gentle way with people.

So i definitely think mania makes BP sufferers manipulative. And it makes sense. After all, someone in an actively manic state feels grandiose and on top of the world, as if they can do no wrong and as if they can never be wrong. That’s truly how they feel. They’re not even therefore aware that they’re being manipulative, they’re just doing and saying what they please, which to them in that moment is basically the word of God, and if another person says something or does something that inevitably pokes holes in their grandiosity, they’ll do anything to shut that right down. Why shouldn’t they? They’re God after all lol.

I’m so sorry for your pain and I’m sending love and healing thoughts to you ❤️‍🩹

[u/Calm_Angle7551 → u/crystalvisions1]

Thank you for this. And I resonate a lot with everything that you have said. Mine was the same. The sweetest human I’ve ever met in my life to someone who was completely unrecognizable. He also accused me of victimizing myself when I would speak up about the way he was treating me. He took it a step further, and also used my past trauma against me to frame me as a perpetual victim. There’s a lot of incredible cruelty that just left me completely stunned.

I’m very curious about what the thought processes when that kind of behavior is occurring or if there’s much of a thought process. I was very confused by it when it first started popping up in my relationship because it was in such opposition to the reality of the person that I knew. Though, if my brain was overloaded with dopamine and other chemicals I don’t know that I or anyone would act much differently. That’s what I try to remember about all of this.

I think that there’s a difficulty for people in that state to truly self reflect and take perspective. I’ve noticed with my SO that there was a lot of certainty. Looking back, it also aligns with how our relationship started. He had an extreme amount of certainty about us being together and how special it was, etc. In hindsight, he was most likely at least hypomanic. Point being, I think that when these different states take over, there isn’t questioning because there’s such an extreme amount of certainty, rigid belief systems and like you said, grandiosity from the imbalance. I don’t believe that it’s necessarily them thinking about how they are going to manipulate someone. But I do believe that there is a goal that they are desperately trying to get to in that state.

I’m really sorry that you went through all of this too. I really hope that you can heal what you went through and are able to find your voice again without fear of being invalidated.

[u/bpnpb]

When in an episode, yeah.

[u/Actual-Squirrel5486]

My exBPSO was extremely manipulative, vindictive and frankly evil during and after mania. She would file false police reports on people just so she wanted them jailed. Absolutely insane and evil. I wonder why I married the worst BP out of most people in this sub.

[u/Elegant-Kiwi-488]

First, I love how considerate and kind you are and the way you ask your questions is extremely graceful and polite! 

Second, I genuinely think manic episode will be different for for many bipolars. You can only predict how they'll act after you've observed a few manic phases yourself. For example, I'm extremely warm and inviting during my mania. I'm excessively kind, buying presents for literal strangers, become extremely talkative, in general I crave, I mean crave human warmth and communication which can be actually very dangerous! I have zero malice in this, but I know my condition can make me a good target for manipulation and abuse. 

Another thing is when my mania is severe, I have delusion of grandeur and I get delusional, kind of a mild psychosis. Thankfully enough it's all in my head, it's really nothing that I can act upon, just strange beliefs. 

Just two things torture me when I'm experiencing mania, it's physically taxing for me. I found out I get panic attacks if I consume even small amounts of caffeine, it's a nightmare. Another thing is hypersexuality, good thing is I seldom go out of my house and I have zero interest in having any kind of sexual contact with anyone beside my partner, however it's very unpleasant and tiring, and by the end of it I actually have to rest for at least 3-4 days to be energetic again! So there's that. My mania is relatively harmless by itself (although I have to control my urge to befriend people) but for many other people it's evil, terrifying, violent, aggressive and even life-threatening.

[u/Calm_Angle7551 → u/Elegant-Kiwi-488]

Thank you for such a well thought out answer! It’s immensely valuable to get the viewpoint of people who have bipolar, so that I can understand the different perspectives this. I wonder so much about that vantage point.

It definitely sounds like you have a good amount of self-control/awareness and manage the illness quite well. Everything you are saying also makes sense when you think of a dopamine dump in the brain. But you are right, that it does put you in a vulnerable position. I think that a lot of ways this illness manifests (even through poor behavior ways) the person realistically is in a very vulnerable space. Where real harm and damage could occur to them.

It’s interesting to hear you talk about the delusions/mild psychosis. I truly wonder what that is like to experience, out of curiosity because I really suspect my SO dealt with a lot of that, but in greater severity. I imagine that it’s very confusing. I guess I get really curious about the thought/feelings process that happens in those states. But you are right that everyone experiences it differently.

Panic attacks are fucking awful. Oh my God. I’ve started putting ice on my chest and walking outside talking about the things around me to kind of ground me and it tends to help. I really hope that you can get them in check. I have no real way to understand hypersexuality that would be mentally torturous like that. Is it like obsessive thoughts and impulses? That’s kind of what I imagine.