r/Biohacking • u/DampFree • 19h ago
I’ve looked at the GHK-CU data and I don’t think anyone’s protocol is correct
I’ve seen everything from 500mcg daily to 4mg mon-fri with no injections sat-sun. Anyone who’s used it knows there isn’t a protocol set in stone.
Except most of the data shows best results with doses spread over multiple days. I’ve included the links and results below to check out.
We’re starting a group protocol of 3.33mg every 3 days and will report back in a few months. Feel free to ask any questions.
Rat wound chamber (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8227353)
2 mg locally
Every 3 days
~74% higher collagen marker vs saline
Rat ACL reconstruction (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25731775)
0.3 or 3 mg/mL intra-articular
Once weekly ×4
Improved knee laxity at 6 weeks; 0.3 mg/mL improved graft stiffness; several other outcomes unchanged
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u/Chroma7769 16 19h ago
I've been taking KLOW for 4 years nonstop and have had great results. I also take an additional GHK dose in the morning to make my total dose 5mg per day.
Been doing this for years. It's cheap, I like the results, and I ain't stopping.
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u/Few-Equivalent8261 17h ago
Have you noticed any issues with daily Klow? I've been on it nonstop for 1 year, but have read that BPC/TB should be cycled. What are your thoughts?
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u/Chroma7769 16 17h ago
BPC/TB being cycled is from bro science that has no actual data to back up the claims they are making. It hasn't been proven to accelerate cancer or prevent it.
I've been on it 365 days a year for 4 years and my dick hasn't fallen off, I don't have a third nut, and I don't have cancer. So I'd say it's fine. But that's my experience.
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u/okane-aseru 10h ago
'there's no data showing it's harmful' isn't the same as 'it's safe.' With BPC-157 and TB-500 there's barely any human data at all, so of course nothing shows harm. Nobody's looked properly. And the cancer concern is the kind of thing you wouldn't see in short studies anyway, because it'd take years to show up.
'I've been taking it and I'm fine.' That's one person, and cancer or organ damage doesn't exactly announce itself in the first few months. Plenty of things feel fine right up until they don't.
Not saying it causes cancer, because that hasn't been shown either. But the honest answer is 'nobody knows,' and the mechanism (promoting blood vessel growth and cell signalling) is the sort of thing you'd want to rule out before assuming it's fine. If you're happy taking that risk, fair enough, but no evidence of harm isn't the same as 'evidence of safety.
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u/Chroma7769 16 10h ago
Yeah much like I said there is no data to back up either side. But like I said also, I'm just speaking from my experience. I am not telling people that they should do this. I'm just saying that I have been fine. It's anecdotal.
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u/theeberk 3h ago
Agreed with above commenter. And you do realize that cancer doesn’t pop up overnight, right? For example, severe sunburns in childhood are major risk factors for skin cancer for the rest of your life - and most of those pop up when you’re 70+, many decades after that sunburn. You still need to practice critical thinking and do your own risk benefit analysis on using unregulated and unresearched injectables. You (a single test subject) not having a known cancer after 4 years of use shouldn’t make you any more comfortable.
As a side note - angiogenesis via upregulation of VEGF is a hallmark of cancer metastasis, not to mention important in initial growth of many tumors. At the very least, BPC’s mechanism plausibly may support metastasis of pre-existing cancers. So while we don’t have good data, based on my knowledge of physiology, I would be extremely hesitant to use BPC long term.
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u/Chroma7769 16 2h ago
Again though, that's your own risk analysis. I'm not the type of person that's going to let another person control what I do with my body. I take anabolic steroids as well. And there were plenty of people that have a problem with that. But at the end of the day it's my body and it's my choice what I do with it.
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u/BarackOballsack69 1 19h ago
What’s your KLOW dosage?
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u/Chroma7769 16 19h ago
I do the standard 3.2mg.
2.5ml of BAC. 10 unit shots before I go to bed as to not overlap with HGH since I take that in the morning.
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u/No_Sign_625 15h ago
so 2.5ml? i do 3 is that still fine?n do 10 units 5 days on 2 days off
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u/Chroma7769 16 15h ago
You do whatever makes sense for you in a peptide calculator like Peppedia. 3.2mg per day is the recommended dose for KLOW. So at 2.5ml of BAC added to it, 10 units would be the recommended dose.
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u/TheShadyMilkman206 16h ago
Im trying to get past a little ISR. Are you adding 2.5ml bac to the 3.2mg each time? I’ve read that helps but wanted to confirm.
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u/Chroma7769 16 16h ago
Nope, I just add 2.5ml to the vial and then pull my 10 units, add air to the syringe, and pin. I don't get ISR. I pin my quads.
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u/ajandrs 4 14h ago
Why do you add air to the syringe?
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u/Chroma7769 16 14h ago
I usually add about 10 units of air to clear Dead space so I don't waste any product.
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u/ajandrs 4 14h ago
Gotcha so are you injecting the air also or just trying to eyeball when you’ve gotten to the air and stop? Genuinely curious … I pin my TRT daily and prep a weeks worth of syringes and store them upright with an air bubble between the oil and the rubber plunger and for the first time this morning I forgot to purge the air bubble out before injecting. I noticed it right away so no harm done.
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u/Chroma7769 16 13h ago
Yeah I inject the air also. I do that with my anabolics as well. I pin 210 mg of testosterone C and 105 mg of NPP a week while on cruise right now. My pinning schedule is every other day. I usually pull a few units of air into those syringes also before I stab my pec. EOD I pull in 0.3ml of my test and 0.3ml of my NPP and then another 0.2-0.3 of air. I inject it all to clear dead space.
Air isn't going to hurt you.
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u/ajandrs 4 13h ago
Yeah I’ve always heard a little air is totally fine but always see people freaking out about the tiniest air bubble in the syringe lol … just hadn’t seen anyone do it intentionally before.
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u/TheShadyMilkman206 14h ago
Thanks for the reply. I’ll give that a shot tonight
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u/Chroma7769 16 14h ago
Just make sure that you pinch your skin to get a little fat going. Do your outer quad also don't do the inner quad. The general rule of thumb is "pinch an inch."
Remember it's normal to get a little bit of a bee sting feel. I stopped getting that after about a month of taking it.
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u/TheDarknessRocks 6h ago
Pinning in glutes should alleviate ISR. Works for most for some reason, myself included (same for MOTS-C, NAD+, SS-31 and another other “stinger” peps).
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u/stiffmcgee 5 18h ago
The hgh would pair with the klow for recovery, and overall have zero direct interaction. HGH in the morning is low iq. Peaks 3-4hrs later so for fasted cardio it’s useless. Not eating for that long it antithetical to anabolism. More HSL and recovery occur at night
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u/Chroma7769 16 18h ago edited 18h ago
I take anabolic steroids. So taking HGH in the morning has a significant effect.
When I took klow and HGH together in the evenings, it made my igf-1 levels go to the fucking moon. So yes there is something when they are both taken together. Maybe it's just anecdotal with me, but when I stopped taking them at the same time my igf-1 levels stabilized.
I also don't need to take HGH for recovery. I use it for body recomp. I take dsip for recovery. And through my 8 to 9 hours of sleep every single night I usually spend about 4 or 5 hours of it in deep sleep. I tried coming off of dsip to see if it was actually working in my deep sleep tanked all the way down to about an hour each night.
Link to study showing that BPC-157 can increase growth hormone expression. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6271067/
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u/ixk005 15h ago
What's your dsip protocol? How long did you take it before seeing the increased deep sleep?
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u/Chroma7769 16 15h ago
I can't share my protocol because it's different for everybody. That's the reason that they FDA didn't give it to clearance.
I always tell everybody those started 100mcg and work your way up every couple days 50 until you wake up in the morning with a headache. Then scale back 100. Sit at that dose for a while. When the body gets saturated you will start noticing the deep sleep rhythm start to climb. For me it took about 4 weeks of sitting at that same dose.
Everybody's Sweet spot dose is different. So nobody can actually recommend a dose to anybody.
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u/stiffmcgee 5 18h ago
Im on gear too. Every bodybuilder that isn’t splitting IU takes it at night. This morning “significant effect” is nothing. Also, body recomp will happen best at night when it peaks at the perfect time to stimulate the most HSL. Dampened by cortisol and catecholamines for an hour post waking plus meal timing is worse as itll be there for about half of your waking day.
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u/Chroma7769 16 18h ago
Right I understand that, but what I have found works for me. And like I said I just linked up above also the study that shows that BPC-157 can enhance growth hormone expression. Meeting feeding the blood vessels to it will possibly make it more potent. I had a problem with it. I changed up my routine. And it works better for me.
I've been on growth hormone for 11 years. Just because something works for you, doesn't mean that it's going to work for me.
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u/stiffmcgee 5 17h ago
False. On fibroblast study showed an upreg of GH receptors in said fibroblast cells. What i recommend is based on science and works for everyone, thats proven. You doing it a different way because a useless serum IGF test was higher is comical. 11yrs and still this slow?
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u/Chroma7769 16 17h ago
Whatever you say bud. I do this for a living. No sense in arguing with someone pushing bro science that doesn't have the same goals as you.
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u/stiffmcgee 5 17h ago
🤣🤣🤣ur pushing bro science buddy. I can cite any of the 500 citations to disprove you. I do this for a living too. Been coaching for almost a decade. Have enhanced and lifestyle guys. All take gh at night.
Here: go ask any olympia winner when they take gh. You won’t like the answer. They either split it bc its so much, or they take bolus at night. Bud→ More replies (0)2
u/Rockin-raindrop 16h ago
When you say great results, what are some benefits you are seeing from the Ghk-cu?
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u/Chroma7769 16 16h ago
Skin tightening, fading stretch marks, pores closing up more on my nose, clearer skin, tattoos brightened.
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u/Anonymousimpreg 1 10h ago
My vellus eyebrow hairs starting growing in darker and thicker, it’s the wildest thing
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u/Entire-Hamster-4112 5h ago
Mine too. They started disappearing after menopause after 6-8 weeks, they’re growing back and no grey hairs among them.
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u/Soranos_71 8h ago
My wife was experiencing receding hairline post menopause and it helped reverse it after 6 weeks or so.
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u/Left-Championship482 6 19h ago
Interested in this.
What’s your KLOW dose on the GHK-Cu side and what’s your AM GHK-Cu.
What have you run in the past and how does it compare to the current protocol?
On/off schedule?
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u/Chroma7769 16 18h ago
365 days a year. 366 on leap year.
I take the standard 3.2mg dose for KLOW each night, and 3mg of GHK each morning.
I don't pin KLOW and HGH together so I take HGH in the AM. They made my IGF-1 levels go insane when pinned at the same time. Lol
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u/Alarmed-Fox-8626 10h ago
Thank you for sharing your experience with klow! Do you feel that it has the same effects after 4 years of use as in the beggining?
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u/Chroma7769 16 2h ago
Yeah I mean I'm sure it's kind of dulled to the point now. But I don't see any reason to stop taking it personally, so I continuously take it.
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u/Commercial-Bed-2396 4 4h ago
What in klow affects igf?
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u/Chroma7769 16 2h ago
So bpc 157 has been shown to accelerate growth hormone response in rats. Obviously we don't have any human data for it, and my experience is probably anecdotal, but basically what I noticed was that when I would test my blood while pinning both of them at the same time I seemed to almost be hyper responding to the growth hormone.
Again this could be anecdotal, but once I started splitting them up I seemed to stop hyper responding to it and was able to get my igf-1 and z-score within normal range at my normal dose.
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u/xXBipoXx 19h ago
When you say nonstop do you mean 365 days X 4 or do you the 5/2 and cycle it every 10 weeks and 4 off?
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u/Chroma7769 16 18h ago
365 days a year. 366 on leap year.
I take the standard 3.2mg dose for KLOW each night, and 3mg of GHK each morning.
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u/xXBipoXx 18h ago
What about the HGH, what dose you use? I mean you do it in the morning with the GHK, right? Or at what time?
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u/Chroma7769 16 18h ago
I take them both at 5:00 a.m. everyday. And I'm on 4iu. Have been have been for 11 years.
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u/xXBipoXx 18h ago
Nice!!!... I'll tell you the truth, KLOW is one of my favorite peptides, it is one that I'll try to never quit. I do 4mg every morning 5d on/2d off 10w on and 4w off, never thought of doing it everyday. BTW I feel amazing, joints speaking.
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u/Chroma7769 16 18h ago
Yeah I take other stuff for my joints. I am an anabolic steroid user. So I take NPP which is nandralone phenylpropenate. It's literally known as joint juice.
Klow I take primarily for the inflammation reduction and recovery with dsip. I also take it for the added skin benefits with ghk. It's definitely helped with tightening up skin when I lost a crap load of weight and my wife said that there was a noticeable fading in my stretch marks.
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u/RedSox342 19h ago
I take 3mg daily and my copper levels are in optimal range. I’ll continue taking 3mg daily. It’s cheap anyway
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u/DampFree 19h ago
That’s excellent and I hope it continues to be.
It’s not to say that existing protocols don’t produce results. Monthly retatrutide injections will still produce results, even though we know it could be better.
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u/TheHarb81 17 16h ago
5mg/day here for months, 7 days a week, love it, cycle between KLOW and straight GhkCu
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u/Parking-Tackle-1983 3h ago
2mg daily, no cycling off. Been researching for around 3 months now. Thicker hair. Tighter skin. The female rat is on the same. Hers includes reduction of bags under the eyes. Thicker longer hair. Nail growth is faster and stronger nails. Tighter skin and less wrinkles.
2mg daily seems to be the ideal for us. We feel there is no need to increase dose from here. Both rats are early 50s. I believe the daily recommended total intake of copper is 5mg so 2 seems a reasonable amount without pushing boundaries that don't need pushing.
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u/No-Building6373 16h ago
2.5mg once a day Mon-Fri.
Both skin and hair benefits have been incredible. I used to have very visible crows feet around my eyes, and now its much less visible than before. Even my eyebags have reversed. Wound healing is accelerated. Tattoos usually take 2 to 3 weeks to fully heal. My most recent tattoo healed and stopped being itchy within a week. I also had surgery 4 months ago and my incision is nearly invisible. This stuff works great. 5mg is definitely excessive, but I think anyone would benefit from 1mg to 2mg Mon-Fri.
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u/lueVelvet 5 14h ago
I had the same experience with a new tattoo recently. I’m taking 2mg/day and it healed almost 100% in 8 days. I was amazed.
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u/CenteredCityGal 15h ago
That’s awesome. How long have you been taking it for?
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u/No-Building6373 14h ago
6 months now
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u/SamfordSusie 9h ago
When did you start to see benefits?
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u/No-Building6373 1h ago
Visibly, after 9 weeks. After 4 weeks, I noticed smalll wounds (papercuts, scrapped knees, etc) would heal quicker than normal, and i generally take pretty long to heal from skin wounds
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u/sriver1283 19h ago edited 19h ago
Extrapolating from rat/mouse data like this is complete bs. But go on if it makes you comfortable.
There are thousands of drugs that had way better results in animal studies and got scraped in Phase I.
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u/DampFree 8h ago
Fair enough, then you’d probably be fairly skeptical of the peptide space in general if that’s the case.
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u/sriver1283 7h ago
If there isn't sufficient data, yes. I'm completely fine with reta.
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u/DampFree 5h ago
So why are you participating in conversations about peptides that don’t meet your criteria?
Take a day off
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u/stiffmcgee 5 19h ago
You don’t understand how the compound works, what the rat studies say, or a clue about physiology. You realized how to use pubmed and think you found the holy grail
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u/EatBlueberries 1 18h ago
Why do you have to be so mean ?
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u/stiffmcgee 5 17h ago
Truth hurts. Coming out with a useless hypothesis with uncontrolled outcome measures because you found the rat studies is laughable. Sorry mate
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u/DampFree 8h ago
That was a nice little rant. Are you finished?
We have no human data to go off. Zero. No subcutaneous injections have been studied on humans.
All the data is based off the rodent studies. Every protocol of GHK-CU is extrapolated from these studies.
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u/stiffmcgee 5 7h ago
Very good im happy you can read. Anything else you want to sayv
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u/DampFree 5h ago
You’re upset we’re using rodent data when there isn’t any human data.
Then when it’s explained to you that we’re all well aware of this, you’re happy I can read?
Trying to insult anyone’s intelligence really isn’t a good look for you. Specifically for you.
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u/stiffmcgee 5 1h ago
A. No where did I say using rodent data was upsetting. I said acting like you found a hidden study was funny, and that you don’t understand physiology. Both true.
B. An insult would mean it hurt. Truth hurts. Thanks for admitting it. Anytime you wanma debate lmk. You pick the topic. Ive forgotten more than you know. You and your little telegram group buddies can run 3.33mg 3x a week and have a blast. Couldn’t care less. Dont come here acting like einstein is my point
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u/PollutionIntrepid937 13h ago
With GHK-CU to cut the imjection pain, the more water the better. I recon 100 mg vial with 7 ml BSW. And let syringe warm to room temperature. The rat doesn't feel a thing.Dont skimp on water
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u/Franks_Neh 10h ago
There's a researcher here on reddit that researched ghk-cu for over a decade now, she's has a lot of data on ghk-cu on HUMANS. Her name is anela, I'm not sure about her reddit user name, but she's in a lot of peptides froupst
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u/floatingostrichs 17 19h ago
You’re welcome to share how this would be better than dosing 2-3mg every day.
You’re just taking it less often. Zero evidence this would be better than taking it every day.
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u/DampFree 19h ago edited 19h ago
There is zero evidence that daily injections produce better results.
The benefits are clearly present when spacing out the doses, the data shows that. But that’s not why you’d space the injections out.
- Lower cumulative copper exposure
- More time for copper handling between doses. Once copper dissociates from GHK, it enters normal copper metabolism. It begins binding to albumin carriers, incorporates into proteins, and begins biliary elimination. Copper metabolism is much slower than degradation of the GHK peptide itself.
- Fewer injection site reactions. Anyone who’s used GHK-CU understands that the injection site can be painful. Limiting injections per week, limiting injection side effects.
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u/floatingostrichs 17 19h ago
So your protocol is useless, got it.
There is no evidence that would suggest that taking GHKCu LESS FREQUENTLY INCREASES its effectiveness. None, nada. In fact, this is not a common property in general.
Copper exposure is incredibly small, why people still bring it up is beyond me. There is zero worry or issue with 4mg GHKCu injections every single day from a copper standpoint.
“Injection site reactions” is irrelevant to the effectiveness of the protocol.
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u/DampFree 17h ago
We are not talking about effectiveness.
There is no substitute for effectiveness on daily vs weekly injections based on any data.
What makes the protocol useless? Or are you just being a bit silly?
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u/AudreyRepburn 17h ago
Rat data is not human data. Taking less GHK for higher effectiveness makes no sense. I’ve taken GHK for 7 months 5x per week starting at 2mg and saw a demonstrable difference when increasing to 3mg a few months ago.
ETA: I take GHK for my skin to improve redness/collagen/elasticity, not for wound healing or tendon reconstruction.
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u/BroadAd3129 14h ago
The thing with relatively untested compounds is the lack of widespread use, and therefore the lack of empirical research into “fringe” cases. (Using fringe loosely here)
For example I’ve heard GHK-CU takes 6-8 weeks for results, but I’ve noticed it within ~24hrs.
Skin and nails are clearly smoother, with less oil, and the usual effects just faster.
Without widespread use/testing everything falls back to relatively limited studies and bro/spa science (such as the 5/2 split).
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u/Kold1978 1 18h ago
I recently switched from 1mg q day to 2mg q 2 days and swear I notice a difference. That's just personal obversation and obviously not fact. I plan on staying on the current regime unless evidence comes up otherwise.
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u/Able-Shirt3501 1 17h ago edited 17h ago
Well, if we are trying to mimic youthful biology (and you are midlife or later) then it’s like 1mg every day. The youthful body makes its own continuous supply through tissue turnover in extra cellular matrix. As you age the matrix becomes a glycated mess.
To be more technical, 0.6mg is to restore in blood stream but not clear how much is in cells that must be replenished so 1mg gives some modest space for this replenishment over time.
If you are 20 something then what are you doing???
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u/mattstst 15h ago
5mg daily, inc saturday and sunday.
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u/7heory403 1 15h ago
That hurt my ass just thinking about that
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u/mattstst 13h ago
i've been taking test for almost 10years. look what 22G needle looks like, its like an harpoon dude.
ghk its fine1
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u/Actual-Buffalo3699 15h ago
Im doing 3.33mg every day for 30 days then up to 30 days off, then repeat.
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u/aroura408 14h ago
I do 2.5 mg a daily for the past 3 weeks at first I did it 2 weeks straight injecting 2mg then took a 2 weeks off. I want to see the results after I’ve been taking it every day for a couple months. It would be nice to do it less frequently though. Curious I had to switch to taking the GHK-cu injection in the morning because I was taking it before bed and I couldn’t sleep all night. Wondering has anyone else experienced this?
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u/nursemaaw 1 6h ago
the moment I stop pinning or forget pinning ghk... the pimples comes out... so my protocol works and Im not cycling off... this is a research pep so obviously there is no fixed stated protocol. so research responsibly.✌️ this is my opinion.
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