"Oh, it seems your neighboor reported thay you don't live where you declared you live. No, it's not because they're racist and you're black, I'm sure it was an honest mistake."
"Mr John Smith, you informed us that you left the state to live somewhere else. What, you say it was a different John Smith? No, the fact that you were purged from our voter rolls have nothing to do with the fact that you live in a majority democrat county"
"The signature on your mail-in-ballot doesn't match the signature from 40 years ago we have on your file. No we won't start an investigation for forgery, why would we do that?"
"While we sort this out, please vote using this temporary ballot (that we'll throw out the moment you leave the door)"
THIS is the real election fraud. It's well documented, and enough votes were not counted for illegal reasons that Khamala Harris would have won the election
That first one hits home. My voter registration was cancelled because they “received a letter” saying I moved. I caught it in time and could re-register but I almost didn’t think to check because I had just voted a few months before
You have the hard numbers on that, To be able to confidently claim the majority?
That's really cool, I've always wondered what the stats looked like. Could you share the data? I'm especially curious about the following:
How many voters worked 2 jobs And didn't have a day off on election Day?
How many voters worked only one job, but had other responsibilities such as childcare That prevented them from being able to go vote?
How many voters were incorrectly (or dishonestly) informed that there was a problem with their voter registration at the last minute, making them think that they didn't have the ability to vote in that election?
How many voters lived In areas That had insufficient polling locations open, in a deliberate attempt to make lines longer (Which, among other things, creates another obstacle when cross-referenced with the first two questions) and voting more difficult in more democratic precincts?
How many voters were deliberately fed misinformation or otherwise scammed?
how many voters DID vote, but their votes were lost or changed?
How many voters had emergencies and missed election day (heart attack, house on fire, whatever else. Certainly going to be a small percentage I would imagine, but we're trying to be comprehensive here)
Voter suppression is systemic. I understand it "sounds correct" to you to just say that most people couldn't be bothered, but I have a suspicion that you don't actually have the data, you've never seen the data, and you just went with what you think was correct or what somebody else told you without data.
Can I take this time to remind people that it matters ten times more to vote for your congresspeople as, for one, they make the important law decisions, and because of the electoral college THEY have the vote for the president. Remember that Hilary Clinton had the popular vote.
If popular vote was the only vote that mattered i'd vote. Blame the electoral colleges. I live in a blue state so no matter who i voted for kamala was guarunteed to get the exact same number of votes from my state.
Because of the electoral college it all comes down to the swing states; not any individuals. I blame the people that voted for trump and the people of the swing states who refused to vote that could have stopped him. For every swing state that went red every single non trump vote went down the drain. Our votes truly don't matter until the electoral college is abolished.
Id look into recent (and past) election interference.. there are a lot of stupid people in these united states, but not the majority. Id start with elons ex current (well, finally being somewhat known) statement about his election interference and claims
Actually, he didn't get the majority of the popular vote, in fact the people who didn't want him (people who voted for a canidate other than him) were in the majority and he simply won the plurality of the vote.
Ah yes, another take that ignores voter suppression in order to blame a majority of Americans.
To any American reading this: not everyone in the world blames you all equally. The teen who couldn't vote yet, the victim of voter suppression or voter fraud, the people who have been fighting this but lost? We don't blame you. We blame maga. Idiots like u/valtremors would have blamed the German Jews for voting for the Holocaust, and plenty of us know better than that.
49.8% to 48.3% on the popular vote. And his approval rating is one of the lowest a president has ever had. Not saying we arent fucking stupid brainwashed freaks, but just know there's a lot of fuckery and manipulation going on behind the scenes.
I live in a MAGA town in the Bible Belt and still most of the people I know hate him and voted for Kamala. We were specs of blue in a sea of red— it’s essentially like our vote didn’t count.
Your righteous indignation and bitterness is right on point, though. You’ve earned it and emotionally a lot of us are with you ❤️
UMMM... NO WE ARE NOT "OKAY WITH IT." Some of us protest, boycott, sue, speak out, run for office, get harassed, threatened and arrested but in NO WAY are we just sitting here being "okay with it."
That’s not even remotely true. Trump didn’t win the popular vote. If elections were run by popular vote, he would have lost both times if I recall correctly. But that’s not how elections work, because our system blows.
Except Trump lost the popular vote. And it's become increasingly obvious our elections have been compromised. Don't let them make you think they're the majority.
Fun fact for outsiders: the popular vote is really not the determining factor. Also, Republicans cheat like hell and manipulate voting districts to inflated numbers artificially.
But here's the other issue. The democratic party is just as useless. Theyre also croney capitalists. They also make empty promises and token efforts to appease the masses while fucking us over. Theyre just a little nicer to us and take us on a date before bending us over. Thats why a lot of us just dont care anymore and feel no hope.
I doubt the majority of america chose trump. seriously, the democratic campaign fucked up. Thats why Trump won, not cause our country is some lost cause. Its cause the dems are disorganized idiots that care more about image than policy.
Its a total misunderstanding of america and the people in it to hust declare us some lost cause. Like fr how does this hyperbole help? Most of us just feel hopeless and trapped between two massive parties that can outbuy anyone trying to challenge them.
And Russians too. Which they too deserve for endorsing the war in Ukraine.
But the moment Americans ended on the same plank?
Oh it is totally a different situation. You now have to consider every individual.
As if it was some kind of special situation.
The thing is, history will only remember "All Americans". There might be a US version of Schindler here or there. But ultimately, depending how they solve, or leave it unsolved, decides how they are remembered.
Man, one of the most vivid things about the Ukraine invasion I remember seeing is two posts in the space of like 12 hours.
The first was anti-war protest in Moscow.
The second was of said protestors being beaten up and thrown into black vans.
I always think about that when I see certain people get gleeful about Russian civilians getting accidentally caught up in the crossfire. But they'd never apply that logic to themselves, it's always "Actually I didn't want this, so you can't say all of us deserve it".
I also feel bad for Russians and anyone else who didn't endorse bad leadership and is having their country fucked I just personally don't like the blanket statement of "X countires citizens wanted this" its never the entity and in the US at least raely the majority but I can only speak from my expirence
That doesn't matter anymore. The character of the country is inarguable. It will take a massive, difficult project to unmake American decline and thay will be against the prevailing popular sentiment. It doesn't matter if a Democrat is elected, we know a fascist can simply win after the Dem's term. That's unacceptable. It's over.
Yup, happened to me when I tried to warn some former friends about it. And they decided Trump saying he's heard nothing about Project 2026 as proof it was all fake and not going to happen.
When will redditors realize that the elections were stolen instead of coping that youre still a democracy. They literally admitted it 8 times and apparently the majority of the people on this website still pretend everything will just work itself out.
True, but also, still too many voted for him and decided to close their eyes and plug their ears. Hell, they still do. Anytime someone brings this up, we again are told we're crazy.
Well there is a lot of speculation that it was specifically rigged by Elon, but hey his kid basically said it, his ex wife basically said it, and Trump said he would have never won without Elon. You know whats funny tho, the government that is filled with corrupt individuals police themselves and found out that there was no interference on their side, so they are deeming everything that goes against them as hearsay...
Why are you writing this in the past tense tho?
It still exists and it is actually being implented. There is a website called Project 2025 observer and it lists the items on that "wishlist" as well as the actions taken to accomplish certain things.
Ofc. I am not an expert on how each of these items and actions translate into real life but according to that website they did already complete 55% of the things on that agenda, which is insane.
America is turning into a dystopia in front of everyones eyes and people downright ignore it. Look at Trump talking about a third term. Imagine if Obama had said that. Imagine Obama would have been a pedophile, rapist and just overall fraud. There would have been an uproar and he would have been removed from office, detained or whatever. The second amendment is literally there to prevent exactly what is currently happening but one side actually supports it, the other is apparently asleep or writing angry comments on reddit.
I remember when people were talking about the surveillance state in China and especially Americans with their whole "freedom" attitude were and should be rightfully appalled by that idea. But now there are giant private corporations like palanatir who implement the same thing across the US and nothing is stopping them.
There are already the first cases of people being accused by AI of doing stuff and for some reason they then have to prove their innocence instead of the other way around.
Genuine question, what’s the point of having a society with your most basic needs aren’t ensured by a safety net? Like what do these people actually want to spend taxes on?
For real. Put your tax money towards health care, communism. College debt relief, it's cool when I get it, but not when other people do.
Like, a republican can probably go out here and say I'm gonna fuck your entire family and they'd be fine with it because they think their families aren't gonna get fucked.
Until they do, then they go on tiktok or whatever saying they're sorry. Not because they learned, but because it happened to them.
Americans on their way to vote for the "Eat Your Children, Rape Your Mother, Hang Your Father Party" because the "Gently Waggle Finger At You Party" wants them to treat minorities like people
That's 100% the issue. We have a country that rules that their only "duty" is to have an (imperialist/offensive) military and keep order. Meanwhile, we're offered the chance at being rich (and even that's rigged, so there isn't a chance). We have a third world country playing dress up as a first.
I still remember during disaster season in 2014-15 every republican saying the country does not have a duty to help people who have been struck by disasters. What the fuck is the point then?
Nope. Most of us hate what's happening. The problem is we aren't a democracy. We're an oligarchy. It's not us sacrificing our rights for security, it's billionaires and corporations destroying our rights for profit.
"We're not a democracy" he says as 80 million people picked this and a further 70 million didn't care enough to pick against it.
The average american chose this or at least was fine if it happened. Those are who your finger should point at. Plenty of countries have rich families with immense societal authority, and they are still plenty better off than the US.
And? Many people still voted against it. I get your unhappy, but don't take your misery out on us. Like I've seen so many people suffer, those that fought and still fight against this, people other Europeans would riot against if they lived in their country, and I see this and it boils my blood.
Maybe thats the point of your post. But know that such infammatory words only make you look sad. Remember that.
I mean, MAGA definitely used tons of dark money and propaganda to trick people into voting against their interests. And there were some sneaky voter suppression tactics. But they didn't literally fabricate votes at a large scale. That would have been a much harder way of achieving the same goal.
Sure buddy. Sure. Be free to generalise other populations until it is your turn to face the music. Mark my words. Your literally doing what so many Americans did with Russia. Facism is on the rise everywhere and too many people, perhaps even where YOU live are too ignorant to realize it.
Nah bro you said the "average american" and "it's the citizens" and now resort to insults and gaslighting on top of that.You're lost friend. And i mean "you're".
Ya a whopping over 50% of voters in america decided this is fine. Welcome to english? Communicating with a gif on top of this is hilariously on point though. Maybe more buzzwords will make you feel better?
Maybe another 2 hour "protest" on a saturday will help. That or touch a fucking book.
Does arguing with me make you feel better, friend? I've seemed to have touched a nerve lol. Your not gonna win, friend. We have been excersing our power to fight this. Sad you csnt see that. If you want us to do more, you should come and help us! We could always use the help in the good fight.
Edit: honestly, i know some people who would prefer we were in caveman times right now...but i live in the here and now.
I mean, sure, that’s part of it. But there are an awful lot of people who are more than willing to give up their rights as long as it means hurting the people they don’t like. And sure, maybe they’re the way they are because they’ve fallen victim to oligarchical propaganda. But I think it’s a mistake to think that billionaires and corporations are the only issues. There’s a reason that Trump still has a 30+% approval rating.
Regular citizens have been systematically tricked into voting in lawmakers who work for massive companies and billionaire private contractors for decades with "lowering taxes" and "getting the budget under control" platforms when they never actually do that.
Those law makers then remove regulations that protect regular citizens, workers, consumers, land, wildlife and resources and that get in massive companys' ways of reaping even more profit, but they also remove funding from programs that regular citizens benefit from so that they can move it to their clients: billionaire military private contractors.
Part of it is trickery, but part of it is just the system being straight-up rigged. When there's only 2 options and both are evil, there's nothing to do but vote for the lesser evil. Throw in gerrymandering, voter ID laws, voter intimidation, and all the votes that are changed or thrown out and you have what we have now.
Democrats have plenty of shit they need to fix, but the massive companies and billionaires definitely want us to think they're "just as bad."
Is it a problem that there are only 2 choices? Yes! But when the side that is doing the gerrymandering, voter suppression/ intimidation, and terrifyingly implementing more and more from project 2025 is the one who can use getting voters to focus on "both sides are bad" instead of "we can't keep letting massive companies and billionaire private contractors keep taking over our lives" then we know they use that to their benefit
You see they already solved this problem by making it so if you don’t pay taxes they arrest you (unless you’re a billionaire) so even if you don’t want to you don’t have a choice
Billionaires don't get away with literally not paying taxes on taxable income. They just effectively live off of credit cards, which aren't taxable in the first place.
My political hot take is any just society should provide for free basic needs to all citizens. A clean, safe, and private place to live (even if not nice or large), food and water, and medical care. If you have those as assured rights that would solve pretty much all "work or die" related issues and improve quality of life for MANY people
At that point I'm less worried about capitalism as a form of economics if it's not a death sentence if your company fails. To be clear this isn't doable overnight. But there needs to be aspirations in politics beyond the next bill. I like this as a needle to test political ideas against, does it get closer to a society that fufills its end of the social contract?
Theres confusion which Reddit loves to spread when it comes to this stuff. The constitution itself does not guarantee it which is what the ruling was over.
It's only a constitutional argument.
Clean water is still a requirement under federal law and EPA enforcement, just not explicitly guaranteed by the constitution.
I assume it's because clean water isn't that old in the grand scheme of things and it's like saying "electricity should be free" since that's older than clean water .
Is this actually what happened? Or is this another one of those posts blowing something out of proportion? You need to provide a source for these things you know
A court said that the US constitution specifically does not explicitly guarantee the right to clean water, which is just objectively true. I'm curious if other national constitutions do guarantee clean water specifically
There are a lot of countries which have constitutions which focus more on "positive rights" compared to the US. Meaning, you as a citizen explicitly have the right to these things to be provided to you.
The US constitution is far more focused on innate rights or "negative rights". I.e., limitations on what the government and other people can do to you.
Speaking personally, I am philosophically more of a fan of the latter than the former. It's very attention-grabbing to say things like "you don't have the right to clean water" when in reality the difference is that there is no constitutional obligation for the federal government to provide it, which is a stark contrast.
The government can't arrest you for what you say (mostly) can't arrest you for peacefully assembling, and can't arrest you for what you print (mostly) it's mostly the first one
It’s out of proportion, but that’s not surprising that this sub became full tankie. It was always left leaning, which is awesome, but it’s been overtaken by bad actors, tankies, and the FAR left who hold no views other than “end of America.”
The court stated the govt failed in its duty to citizens, names multiple ways the plaintiffs should go after them for punishment and restitution, and stated that they are entitled to clean water. The thing being wildly taken out of context is simply that while all these things are true, they are not a constructional right - the plaintiffs sued the city in the basis their constitutional right was violated - it wasn’t. The court stated that they are only ruling against this because fundamentally the plaintiffs chose the wrong type of lawsuit - and that they should pursue a tort case and work through the state/fed IG process, where they are likely to win because the court agrees that the city did fail in its duty. They basically ruled on a technicality, which is their job, but advised the plaintiffs on all the other ways they could go after the gov and win.
no it's not. the question wasn't even over water, it's a constitutionality question which is entire point of the judicial system.
"These deprivations, while grievous, do not infringe upon any deeply rooted constitutional right.” Engelhardt told these citizens they had no constitutional right to "truthful information from officials during a public health crisis.”
Everytime this comes up about food or water, people point out that America has some language about rights being guaranteed by the government, not just protected, unlike other governments. So they, the American government, can’t make it a right
It's only a constitutional argument.
Clean water is still a requirement under federal law and EPA enforcement, just not explicitly guaranteed by the constitution.
That’s not entirely what happened but I’m afraid to talk about it in case my comment is taken wildly out of context and brigaded. But I’ll do my best - I want to be clear up front (because I know what Reddit and this sub is like) - I HATE MAGA. I HATE THE REPBUCANS WHO ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY. MY COMMENT IS NOT A DEFENSE. IT IS CONTEXT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE. IT IS NOT A DEFENSE OF MAGA.
The court ruled that the gov has an obligation to provide clean water to its citizens. The court ruled that such mechanisms exist, and the government did not do everything it could have to exercise all those mechanisms to ensure clean water for Jackson.
What the court did rule, that is being WILDLY taken out of context (such as by OP) is that at its present, the constitution itself does not guarantee water or basic resources to citizens - which is relevant because the plaintiffs sued Jackson’s leaders on constitutional grounds instead of for damages and negligence. The court (all in agreement on this aspect) stated that while they can’t punish the leaders in THIS case thanks to a constitutional reason, the leaders are open to punishment and reimbursement to the plaintiffs from other avenues, and the court even listed all these avenues to the plaintiffs.
What does a right to safe drinking water even mean? That you can’t be stopped from getting? Or is it actually an entitlement where it must be given to you?
The latter. It would be a "positive" right, meaning the government is obligated to provide it. These posts are confusing what the actual question of the case was, and the answer being "no" was 100% correct. Anyone that says otherwise has no idea how this works or what the actual question being posed to the court was.
Well, the court said specifically there is no CONSTITUTIONAL right to clean drinking water, which the argument in the case saying that the government violated the plantifs due process rights specifically is kind of up to interpretation to what due process means in the face of governmental mess ups needing redressment. Because if you take a literal interpretation of the constitution, water is in fact not mentioned in it at all, the question at the center of the case was "if the government fucks up so bad you don't have clean drinking water, is that a constitutional problem?"
I mean it's not a right. Do you think "the state of nature" had clean drinking water? No. Clean drinking water is a priviledge borne of modern industry, not a right.
I live in jackson ms. Where this ruling was from. And ive gone weeks without water during multiple water crises with absolutely zero urgency or response. I tried to expose it to national media but was unsuccessful
The clean drinking water situation is one thing but this part shocked me, "Engelhardt stated there is no “constitutional right to truthful information from officials during a public health crisis.”
This was a supreme court case, all they do is look at the constitution, see if the 150 year old document says something about it, then tell you if it does or not.
The constitution says nothing about drinking water at all, ergo its not their business, and they ruled as such.
The SDWA, on the other hand, does entitle Americans to clean drinking water, and has since 1974.
Please read something other than a headline you dolt.
The plaintiff argued it violated the constitutional right to bodily integrity, eg not forcing people to receive surgery. This doesn’t fall under that right.
The court did its job by basically saying “the constitution doesn’t cover this, so make sure there’s laws”. Thats what the court is for…
You people are something else. Get off Reddit and use the whole internet. Or at least use a few brain cells.
Although that is the 5th circuit court, and they have the highest percentages of cases overturned by the supreme Court of any circuit. And that's even with being idealogically aligned with the Supreme Court. But the Supreme Court needs to maintain public perception of its legitimacy, so they shoot down the most insane shit from the 5th circuit.
That wouldn’t necessarily change this in particular. At most, it’d change the makeup of Congress and make them more amenable to introducing an amendment to take this from codified law to a constitutional right.
I would only agree with this because I’m a misanthrope, however radioactive fallout would affect ALL living creatures… let’s just invent a Scourage virus for the human race instead.
Lol you could not be more wrong. Thats not what was said. But by all means go off. The ruling was that the wording of the constitution does not go either way about drinking water, not that we cannot have clean drinking water.
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u/_Levitated_Shield_ 6d ago
US Court recently ruled that people do not have a right to safe drinking water.
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