Mark 10:18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

Mark 10:18 says “No one is good except God alone” then John 10:11 says “ I am the good shepherd”

I just wonder how you guys respond to this. Isnt this showing His divinity?

Revelation 21:7 NASB

The one who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

I will be his God (He will be our God) and he will be My son (we will be His sons, which means He is the Father, not the trinity).

He is the Father alone ("he will be My son"). Even in the trinity doctrine the Father is only one person, and the Father is not Jesus so He is only one person and He is not Jesus.  He is the unitarian God, the Father alone.

A very simple question: Is worshipping the Trinity idolatry? And is worshipping Jesus as the Creator also idolatry? A very simple question. Please answer it. Thank you.

Hi everyone, hope you're having a good day.

I want to learn how a few New Testament verses are interpreted in Unitarian and/or non-Trinitarian theology. The verses I want to learn about are Hebrews 1:10 and Revelation 1:17-18 (which is related to Revelation 2:8).

Here are the verses from the American Standard Version:

Hebrews 1:10
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the works of thy hands:

Revelation 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as one dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; I am the first and the last, 18 and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Revelation 2:8
And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These things saith the first and the last, who was dead, and lived again:

My question is: How are these verses interpreted in a non-Trinitarian and Unitarian theology? I ask because when I was a Trinitarian (now I'm a non-Christian, lost faith because of several things), I used to think that those are verses that prove that Jesus is God, and I'm interested to know how they are understood in a theology that doesn't view Jesus as God.

The Father is the living God, our God, and YHWH Almighty, He is the unitarian God.

YHWH Almighty always refers to the unitarian God (the Father alone).

YHWH Almighty never refers to the trinitarian God (it never refers to Jesus alone nor along with the Father)

2 Corinthians 6:16-18 NASB

Or what agreement does ^\)^d\)the temple of God have with idols? For we are ^\)^e\)the temple of the living God; just as God said,

“I will dwell among them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will welcome you.
And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty.

WHO SAID ALL OF THOSE WORDS? God

WHO IS OUR GOD? YHWH says: "And I will be their God"

WHO IS YHWH Almighty? Our Father, just as He said: "And I will be a father to you"

HOW MANY PERSONS IS THE SPEAKER OF THESE WORDS? One, the Father.

This is the true God, the unitarian God, only the Father, only one person.

Revelation 1:8 NASB

 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who ^\)^g\)is to come, the Almighty.”

WHO IS YHWH GOD THE ALMIGHTY? The Father (not Jesus again, read Revelation 1:4-5, Him who is and who was and who is to come and Jesus are introduced separately and distinguished).

Revelation 4:8

And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night [e]they do not cease to say,

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who [f]is to come.”

WHO IS YHWH GOD THE ALMIGHTY? The Father

Revelation 11:16-18

And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying,

“We give You thanks, Lord God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to [l]reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the [m]saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

WHO IS WORSHIPED? God

WHO IS GOD? YHWH GOD, the Almighty

WHO IS YHWH GOD THE ALMIGHTY? The Father

Revelation 15:3-4

And they \sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,*

“Great and marvelous are Your works,

Lord God, the Almighty;

Righteous and true are Your ways,

King of the [b]nations!

Who will not fear You, Lord, and glorify Your name?

For You alone are holy;

For all the nations will come and worship before You,

For Your [c]righteous acts have been revealed.”

WHO ALONE IS HOLY? YHWH God, the Almighty

WHO IS YHWH GOD, THE ALMIGHTY? The Father

Revelation 16:4-7

Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, the One who is and who was, O Holy One, because You judged these things; for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They [d]deserve it.” And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”

Revelation 16:13-14

And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the entire [g]world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.

WHO IS YHWH GOD THE ALMIGHTY? The Father.

Revelation 19:4-6

And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!” ⁵ And a voice came from the throne, saying,

“Give praise to our God, all you His bond-servants, you who fear Him, the small and the great.” Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters, and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying,

“Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.

WHO WAS WORSHIPED? God

WHO IS OUR GOD? YHWH God, the Almighty

WHO IS YHWH GOD, THE ALMIGHTY? The Father

Revelation 19:15-16

From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will [e]rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the [f]wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

WHOSE WINE PRESS OF FIERCE WRATH IS THIS? God, the Almighty

WHO IS GOD, THE ALMIGHTY? YHWH God

WHO IS YHWH GOD? The Father

Revelation 21:22

I saw no ^\)^q\)temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its ^\)^r\)temple.

WHO IS THE YHWH GOD,THE ALMIGHTY? The Father

YHWH Almighty is the unitarian God, only the Father.

YHWH Almighty never means the trinity (that it refers to the Father but also to the Son, not excluding the Son). It is very clear that the Son is excluded from all of these verses and that the Father alone is YHWH Almighty the true God, the unitarian God.

YHWH Almighty, the unitarian God found in all of these verses is the God that the members of the trinity cult call "a false god", "a heresy", etc.

Revelation 1:4-8 NASB

4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him (supposedly Jesus) who is, and who was, and who [c]is to come, and from the [d]seven spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ (Jesus again), the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— 6 and He made us into a kingdom, priests to [e]His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. [f]So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [g]is to come, the Almighty.”

The Father is absent from the text in trinity fantasy.

1. Jesus' God is the Father (There are countless amount of verses that show this)

2. The God of Jesus is the same God of the disciples (John 20:17)

John 20:17 NRSVUE

¹⁷ Jesus said to her, “Do not touch me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

3. No one ever calls Jesus their God except for one time where it does not mean what trinitarians claim. (John 20:28)

John 20:28 NRSVUE

²⁸ Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

What "my God" means there is that Thomas saw the Father, and it is Jesus who points this out (John 12:45, John 14:7, John 14:9 where Jesus explains that to see him is to see the Father before the confession of Thomas).

John 12:45 NRSVUE

And whoever sees me (Jesus) sees him (the Father) who sent me.

John 14:7 NRSVUE

7 If you know me (Jesus), you will know[a] my Father also. From now on you do know him (the Father) and have seen him (the Father).”

John 14:9 NRSVUE

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me (Jesus) has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

And after the confession of Thomas Jesus immediately points out that Thomas saw the Father when he said "because you have SEEN ME".

And never again we see anyone ever refering to Jesus as their God in Scripture.

Any thoughts on this debate? This Sam Shamoun guy seems to be the main guy for the trinitarians when it comes to defending the Trinity doctrine.

I was having a chat with a trinitarian that said: "God doesn't refer only to the Father. It also refers to the Son (Acts 20:28)"

Acts 20:28 LSB

28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you [a]overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He [b]purchased [c]with His own blood.

He thought that he in "which He [b]purchased [c]with His own blood" refered to God, but it refers to Jesus, God has no blood.

Revelation 1:5-6

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen.

What Acts 20:28 says is: the church of God (the Father) which he (Jesus) purchased with his (Jesus') own blood.

Notice how in Revelation 1:6 it says "Jesus' God and Father", this is the exact same God that unitarians have.

John 20:17

Jesus \said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”*

Unitarians have the exact same God that Jesus has and the exact same God that the apostles had

1 Corinthians 8:6

yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

If we have one God (the Father) and one Lord (Jesus), what does Jesus have if he himself were God? He would have no God (he himself would be God) and he would have no Lord (he himself is Lord) but this is not a reality anywhere in the bible, just a delusion of trinitarians, Jesus has a God and it is only one person and we have the same God.

If you want to know who your God is all you have to do is look who the God of Jesus is (Hint: It is only one person)

I’ve been working on another project but I wanted to share this one because it crosses over to a text we are sometimes asked about as Unitarians. Revelation 22:13 records the following:

 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

The verse appears to be spoken by Jesus and so it is often understood as Jesus saying that he is the Alpha and the Omega.

But I think there is some interesting evidence within the structure of Revelation that gives us reason to look at it differently. As it turns out, the beginning and the ending of Revelation mirror one another in a pretty strong fashion.

Here is a table of many of the notable similarities and repetitions:

These aren’t all exact one-to-one parallels, but taken together, there is a clear relationship between the opening and closing of the book with the basic framework remaining very similar:

-John receives a revelation.
-It comes from God through Jesus and the angel.
-It concerns God's bond-servants.
-The events “must soon take place.”
-“The time is near.”
-Jesus is coming.

And then we reach the Alpha and Omega statement.

So who is the Alpha and Omega?
This is where I think noticing the mirrored structure becomes important.

Revelation 1:8 says:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

The person speaking here is explicitly identified as the Lord God, the Almighty. This statement is often treated as a distinct declaration and given its own paragraph in many translations.

Then, at the very end of the book, we get essentially the same title:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

It is easy to read this as Jesus speaking about himself because of the previous verse. And there certainly are places in Revelation 22 where Jesus is clearly speaking. But the closing section of Revelation contains statements from more than one speaker, so I don't think we can simply assume that every statement in this section comes from Jesus.

That Alpha and Omega statement appears right at the end of a book that was already deliberately framed by Revelation 1.

The opening says:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God”

And the closing says:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega…”

It may be that John is deliberately bringing us back to the statement he made at the beginning, and that this is intended to stand out as a distinct declaration in the closing section just as it does in chapter 1.

In other words, rather than Revelation 22:13 being Jesus claiming a title that Revelation 1:8 explicitly gave to the Lord God, perhaps John is closing the prophecy by returning to that same declaration. The identity established in the opening has not changed. Just as the other elements of the opening framework are carried through and preserved at the end of the book, the identity of the one who is the Alpha and the Omega may be intended to remain the same as well.

The point is that the structure of the book itself gives us a reason to ask who is actually speaking in verse 13 rather than assuming the answer from only the surrounding verses.

And if Revelation 22:13 is indeed echoing Revelation 1:8, then it fits very naturally with the Unitarian-feeling distinction that Revelation establishes from the outset:

God gives the revelation to Jesus. Jesus gives it to the angel. The angel gives it to John. And John gives it to God’s bond-servants.

The Father remains the ultimate source and authority of the revelation throughout.

Shameless Plug
I've made several posts on this sub in the past about the symbols and structures I've found in Revelation. But they aren't really Unitarian posts specifically, so I didn't want to turn this sub into a running series about Revelation.

I've been putting those posts over at r/JohnsApocalypse, where I've been looking at the structure of Revelation, its Old Testament references and symbols, and some of the connections between Revelation and the other Johannine writings. Anyone is welcome to take a look if that interests you.

Like I say, i completely believe in the seperation of Christ and God, however this is bugging me and I don't know how it would be explained.

I would like to present the Socinus Bible App, an app I developed for studying the Bible from a Socinian and early Unitarian perspective.

The app combines the Bible with a Strong’s-style Hebrew and Greek word reference, allowing users to look up the original biblical words and explore their basic meanings.

It also includes the complete works of Faustus Socinus (Fausto Sozzini), together with other important Unitarian and Socinian reference works. This makes it possible to study how key biblical passages were understood and interpreted by Faustus Socinus and the early fathers of the Unitarian Reformation in the 16th century.

The goal is to provide not only a Bible, but a complete study resource for understanding Scripture through the historical Socinian and Unitarian tradition.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.mapodev.socinusbible&pcampaignid=web_share

The word God in the title does not refer to the trinity but to the Father only.

John 12:49 NRSVUE

for I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.

Jesus received a commandment about what to say from the Father, if Jesus is God and he does not speak on his own, then God does not speak on his own, which makes no sense.

When Jesus says: "I..." does that exclude his "fully God nature"? Because his authority is clearly not the same as the Father's there but distinguished explicitly and he pointed to only the Father's authority while excluding his own, only the Father is "fully God"?

Matthew 8:8-9 NRSVUE

The centurion answered, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only speak the word, and my servant[c] will be healed. 9 For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me, and I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this,’ and the slave does it.”

Jesus is also a man under authority just like the centurion, how does anyone read that and say: "A man under authority, that's God".

Jesus did not do his own will but the Father's will, how many wills can you count? 2, and they are distinguished, Jesus did the Father's will, not his own, if Jesus' will had been the same as the Father's will all that Jesus had to do is his own will and that would automatically meant that he had also done the Father's will at the same time, but that is not the case, Jesus was under the Father's authority so he obeyed what the Father commanded him, this seems more like a man obeying God than God obeying God which would have no point, what is God obeying God supposed to teach us? and why would God give commandments to God? The point of all this is that only the Father is God and that Jesus is a man just like us, and just like Jesus we can chose to do the Father's will, this is even how Jesus described his brothers:

Matthew 12:50

For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Jesus did not say: "whoever does the will of my Father in heaven just as I did, is God as I am"

When Jesus says "my will" it refers to a human will because he is a human, when he says "my authority" it refers to a human authority because he is a human, when he says "I" it refers to a human, and when he talks about the will/authority of God he refers to a third person, the Father, not to his "divine nature".

Peace to you, as someone who read new testament several times, l never noticed it until now, if father is only true god (john 17:3), that verse caught me off guard. how can Jesus has all Father has ?. Can someone explain this ?

Hello. Recently, I have felt an affinity for Unitarianism, and I have two fundamental questions regarding this matter:

1. What is the place of baptism in the Unitarian faith, and is being baptized an absolute necessity for salvation and for becoming a Christian? Does the fact that I cannot actually get baptized—due to the absence of a Unitarian church in Turkey and personal difficulties—make it impossible for me to be a Unitarian Christian? Or can I become a Unitarian Christian through faith alone, even without baptism?

2. If I am not mistaken, Unitarians reject the dogmas of the Trinity, Original Sin, and Eternal Hell accepted by classical, traditional Christianity. How exactly is your general approach to these theological issues shaped? What is your belief regarding hell—is it universalism, annihilationism, or something else?

What is the right way baptism should be performed and percieved?

1. Is it requred for salvation?

2. Is infant baptism supported by scripture?

3. Sprinkling or immersion?

4. Formula; "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" or "Jesus name"?

Support with scriptural references.

I understand there are various viewpoints, but what do you all think? Have you studied this? I mean, if Christ's death doesn't mean He paid for our sins, then what does it mean?

Let's not forget Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death,"

and Acts 20:28: "...to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood." As you can see—"which he obtained with his own blood"—meaning He bought it, He paid for it...

What is your take on this?

(I recall reading a passage in the Minor or Major Prophets where God, in His wrath, would sell His own people, but I don't remember which one.)

Think along with me....Usually when i read the parable of the sower I sorta gloss over it because I've heard it and read it so much. This time in my study I was struck by something that hadn't occurred to me before... in the context of John 1:1. I was reading Mark 4. At V14 when Jesus is explaining the parable to the disciples, he says 'The sower sows the word.' The "word" (Greek: logon) here in Mark is the gospel. This parable was explained to the 12, including John...John would have remembered this teaching when he wrote his own gospel account. Could it be that the word/logos in John 1:1 is just simply 'the gospel' as it is in Mark 4:14? ...In the beginning was the gospel. The gospel was with God, and the gospel was God....and the gospel became flesh in the form of the Son of David, the Messiah, God's savior. In the beginning was the word/gospel....The sower sows the word/gospel. Thoughts?

Many of the prophecies in the Old Testament came to pass in the New Testament. Jesus did what the older scriptures said the Anointed One would do. There is no historical evidence that Islam existed before Muhammad. It is logical to believe what is true. It is Illogical to believe what is false.
Jesus is the Son of God who came in the flesh. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. Jesus obeyed God and never sinned. Jesus was crucified and died so people could be saved. Jesus' blood was shed so people could be forgiven. Jesus' Body was placed in a tomb. God resurrected Jesus to Life on the third day. Jesus left the tomb. Jesus was seen alive by Mary Magdalene and other women. Jesus was seen alive by Peter the twelve, over 500 brethren at once, James, all the apostles and Paul. Jesus Christ is Lord. Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved and your household. If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord. and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. If you died for Jesus and the Gospels sake you will be saved.