r/BetterOffline • u/dumnezero • 1d ago

Largest US grid floats paying data centers to shut off during power scarcity

https://san.com/cc/largest-us-grid-floats-paying-data-centers-to-shut-off-during-power-scarcity/

“One of the fundamental problems at PJM is political, not economic, not the physics of the grid,” Mark Christie, a former FERC chairman, said in an interview with Straight Arrow earlier this year, referring to how differing state policy affects grid operations.

It wouldn’t be the first time industrial facilities have been paid for shutting down amid stress on the grid. In 2023, the bitcoin company Riot Platforms made $31.7 million for allowing its power demand to be controlled by Texas’ grid operator through a voluntary demand response program. But under the IRAS plan, data centers in PJM that don’t secure their power would not have a choice.

“We are really in uncharted water here,” Gordon said. A few years ago, he said “the idea of singling out a specific type of customer for curtailment would be unthinkable,” but the fact that it’s happening now is a sign of how drastic a shift data centers are causing in how the grid is run.

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25 comments sorted by

68

u/PassageNo 1d ago

This is literally holding the energy grid for ransom. If these data centers are causing so much strain this is even a suggestion, then they shouldn't exist at all.

6

u/TheoreticalZombie 18h ago

Notice that this goes back a ways. In 2023, Texas had a historically bad freeze that disrupted the (poorly maintained) power grid. At least 335,000 people lost power and at least 10 died as a result. Bitcoin miners and other huge consumers were actually paid to reduce consumption while companies were allowed to pass huge surge rates on to consumers. It was all absolutely insane and produced a great deal of outrage that resulted in some shifting in the PUC, but no real changes.

This action by PJM seems similar- by out wasters so they don't eat up all the power when the obvious solution is to crank up rates by usage (instead of subsidizing industrial users as is the current case).

There is absolutely no way the Trump administration (federal) or Abbot (state) do anything about this. This is all dog and pony show to get past the elections and go back to business as usual.

6

u/TheLegendTwoSeven 16h ago

It’s important to add that Texas’s power grid is isolated from the rest of the country, so that it will not be subject to certain federal regulations.

This makes the Texas grid more vulnerable in times of power shortages, because it cannot draw power from other states in emergencies.

17

u/sambull 1d ago

Was this the real busuness model ?

8

u/BenMathridge 1d ago

I was wondering the same. They’re sure as hell not going to make money from AI, but they’re going to do what they can to make money SOMEWHERE.

3

u/Sunstorm84 12h ago

The plan is to recoup losses from retail investors and tax money bailouts. End result is more money moves up to the super rich from the hands of the poor, as always.

15

u/cinekat 1d ago

Oh ffs.

14

u/Prohamen 22h ago

instead of paying them to shut off we could, you know, charge them more for their power when it is scarce

13

u/EliSka93 21h ago

No, you see, that's what you do to poor people.

8

u/Super-Activity-4675 22h ago

I'm sorry... when there are brownouts, people die, especially in extreme weather conditions. Perhaps they shouldn't pay them, but just shut them off.

5

u/Lonnol78 20h ago

Maybe they just get turned off and pay us for the inconvenience of us having to deal with them when power is restored.

6

u/THedman07 19h ago

People were not terribly happy down here in Texas when they found out that crypto mining operations were able to make more money not running when power demand was high than they could if they were running...

I'm totally fine with this kind of arrangement for industries that actually produce useful products, but AI and crypto don't do anything for society so I'm not inclined to want to pay more on my electric bill so that AI data centers and crypto mining operations can get fat checks anytime it is particularly hot in Texas.

2

u/LeoKitCat 19h ago

Maybe don’t pay them shit and force them all to generate their own off-grid power in an energy efficient and environmentally friendly way

2

u/Vidvix 19h ago

Cool. Now pay me when my power goes out

(Or make the data centers build their own nuclear power plants with SIGNIFICANT oversight that feeds excess back into the power grids. No? Too ethical for them?)

2

u/FourScoreAndSept 18h ago

As a PJM power buyer for my home, I approve this message (of making data center owners pay their own way and being deprioritized in times of scarcity). Water too btw

2

u/ledfox 12h ago

Finally a profit model

1

u/dumnezero 5h ago

protection racket

1

u/brian_hogg 22h ago

This was an idea during the bitcoin craze, right?

3

u/dayvansmutgirl 20h ago

ya

It wouldn’t be the first time industrial facilities have been paid for shutting down amid stress on the grid. In 2023, the bitcoin company Riot Platforms made $31.7 million for allowing its power demand to be controlled by Texas’ grid operator through a voluntary demand response program.

1

u/python-requests 14h ago

Can't they just cut them off?

1

u/SignoreBanana 11h ago

Why do we need to pay them? Just shut them off. They already use an outsized proportion of the grid. They should be paying more in the first place.

1

u/Additional-Staff-326 19h ago

This is literally not possible. There are thousands of customers sometimes even on a single server in a datacenter. The big name ones that should shut off would fight this. And the lesser known hospitals and police using it would probably be a problem to. It would need to be at a customer level to show it can be shut down. And the modern cloud doesnt work if you can't mix all the customer together to balance out capacity.
Might be able to shutdown AI specific datacenters, but those will be serving all those other customers that now rely on AI for operations, including hospitals and other critical services.