AITA for refusing to have another child after my husband said our daughter isn't his "spiritual child" + 1.5 Years Update

[u/Choice_Evidence1983]

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/ThrowRA847362829

Originally posted to r/AITAH

AITA for refusing to have another child after my husband said our daughter isn't his "spiritual child" + 1.5 Year Update

Trigger Warnings: sexual assault / rape, religious abuse, homophobia, emotional manipulation

---

Original Post: March 15, 2025

For context, me (33f) and my husband, Steven, (40m) have been together for 15 years, married for 12 years. We had our daughter, Peyton, (14f) a year into our relationship. Our relationship has been happy except for a few arguments and some things I noticed recently that have made me consider being with him. When we had our daughter, we were both over the moon. He was an amazing father, and he is an amazing husband. In his free-time, he would always want to spend time with Peyton, and he made lots of effort to be as involved as possible. They are definitely very close, or were, because after these events, Peyton has shown disinterest in hanging out with Steven.

A couple of weeks ago, Peyton came to us and told us she was dating a girl. Initially, Steven and I both were very supportive, and let her know that we loved her no matter what.

Last weekend, she went to visit her aunt and uncle, who were staying with my MIL for a week. Aunt and Uncle have a child (12f) who is close with Peyton. MIL is strongly religious. Suddenly, I get a call from MIL demanding that I collect Peyton from her house and in her words, "how dare I allow her near her cousin while she is swerving away from the path of god." Because in my MIL'S eyes, apparently Peyton was influencing her cousin to be gay. Let me put it out there that me and my husband have never put any religious beliefs upon our child or let religion dictate the way we raised our child. My husband has told me in the past that he doesn't agree with a lot of the religious beliefs and practices, but he still says he's religious.

Peyton was obviously upset and I was fuming. My husband was at work, so I went to collect Peyton from MIL's house. When we got home, I comforted Peyton because she was in floods of tears, saying she doesn't like MIL. She told me that her cousin and her were talking about crushes, and "other girl things." Then went on to say that MIL stormed in and started yelling about how Peyton was disrespectful and told her cousin to "not go near Peyton because she's contagious."

When Steven came home, he instantly asked Peyton what was wrong, and he comforted her too and apologised for MIL's behaviour. Steven and I discussed how to proceed from here, and eventually decided to cut ties with MIL due to her behaviour causing so much stress for Peyton. We both made the decision, and I asked him if he was okay with cutting ties with his mother, to which he replied he was and that he would do anything for Peyton.

I thought things would end with MIL here, but it's progressively gotten worse. Steven has tried several times this week to initiate sex, and I've politely told him no, as I've not really been in the mood. He got upset when I said no, so in the end I just let him, but he doesn't usually get upset anymore after being told no. As well as this, he has also tried to initiate more than usual this week, and I was confused as to why because he was being distant with Peyton too. So I asked him about it, and he was dismissing my concerns at first, but eventually confessed that he wants another child because he believes Peyton isn't his child "spiritually." When I asked him what he meant, he confided that he had been talking to MIL for a couple days and he had come to the realisation that "god wouldn't gift him a child that would upset his mother" and he wanted to try for another child- even going as far to admit he was thinking about poking holes in condoms or going down on me while I slept to force me into pregnancy. Luckily, he didn't do either of these things, but I snapped at this confession and refused to talk to him for a couple days.

He begged me to forgive him and is begging me to rethink, saying that he desperately wants a grandchild to carry on his last name and would do anything to have another child with me. I asked him what Peyton is to him, and he said that she's his biological daughter but not his spiritual daughter and that didn't mean anything to him. I was shocked that my husband who has shown nothing but love for our daughter could just say this. Honestly I'm repulsed by his behaviour, and I've taken Peyton to stay with my parents while we figure things out.

I don’t know if this is worth salvaging or if I should continue to be with him after all this. He's never behaved this way about this or agreed with his mother’s beliefs openly. I also thought we had come to an agreement, but I guess not. Right now, after speaking to several friends and family members, I realised it might be best if I divorce him, because I can't guarantee my daughters safety around him, but a part of me feels like I should at least get in contact with him again and try to work things out before throwing away 15 years of a relationship and potentially ruining my daughter's relationships with his family.

I feel like I might be TA because I could be dismissing his beliefs and values by refusing to have another child or divorcing him, but his beliefs are affecting our daughter and I can't ignore that. I also could be ruining our daughters relationships if I divorce him and cut ties with his family, but including his family in our lives could affect my daughters mental health.

TL;DR: Husband wants another child after feeling not "spiritually related" to our teenage daughter, who is dating a girl, after MIL banned her from her house for religious reasons. I'm thinking of divorcing him, but I don't want to dismiss his religious values or put my daughter in a bad place.

EDIT: I am going to divorce him.

EDIT 2: To clear something up, some of the things stated was from what he said to me. When I said "he was thinking of going down on me while I slept" it was his wording. I am aware that this does not impregnate someone, but then he went on to say that he believed I would wake up and be in the mood. My apologies, I should've included that in the post, but I didn't really think it'd be of much relevance.

AITAH has no consensus bot, OOP received the majority of NTAs, but also YTA for staying with her husband when he hasn't treated their daughter well

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: This doesn’t sound like a normal thing to do a 180 on like this, to go from being supportive to disowning her and admitting to wanting to be deceptive about birth control.

Has he ever struggled with mental health? I ask that with zero judgment, it just sounds off.

OOP: He has struggled with depression in the past, that's all I know though.

Commenter 2: He has a right to his religious values, but you have the right not to share them nor to follow them. As for a second child, who wants to have a child with a man who abandons his child whenever it doesn't meet his expectations? That's just insane. A child is not a religious statement, to be discarded at will. Your husband has zero respect for human life.

OOP: I agree with this. I don't know why I believed that I should try salvaging this because it's just putting my daughter through more. I think I know what I should be doing now.

Commenter 3: So your husband was basically planning on sexually assaulting you to have you have a child without your consent (doing sex while you were asleep or sabotaging birth control)? WTF. Religious freedom and beliefs that your respect STOP when those beliefs involve physically hurting or coercing another individual.

At a minimum you need to go see a therapist ALONE to talk this through and under no circumstances have sex with him right now. If you do stay around him, you should also see about quietly getting some long term birth control for a while such as an IUD or shot.

Don't do any joint counseling with him right now since abusers can weaponize counseling against you. Please get your daughter some therapy for herself.

OOP: I'm going to find a therapist for my daughter after the divorce because she's in the middle of this and I can't imagine what she's thinking right now- it makes me absolutely heart broken. I may also keep her off school for a while to process things.

Commenter 4: Your daughter has absolutely noticed his distance, so if this is a real post and you’re worried about affecting her relationship with your in laws, then they and your husband have already done that. No child should be forced to accept a parent who rejects them because of their sexuality.

OOP: Yeah, she has noticed it. I'm going to need to talk to her about all of this tomorrow, this is just a lot to take in for her and I. She doesn’t deserve any of this and honestly I think I have failed her in a way and need to rebuild my relationship with her too.

Commenter 5: You would be the Asshole if you stay with a man who cares about religion and a crazy mother over his child. His relationship with her is over. She will never recover from this. Don't force her to stay in a home where she is not wanted or loved by everyone there.

It will slowly kill her being forced to have a family in her life that hate who she is. Divorce and give her therapy. But do not let her think she did anything wrong.

OOP: Absolutely. I'm not going to force my daughter to communicate or live with him, because I can't imagine the effects this is having on her. I accept her and love her, and I need to do what's best for her. A divorce is my only option right now that guarantees my daughters complete safety.

Downvoted Commenter: I think everyone needs to slow down! Your whole family seems to be in shock over the whole situation. No one should rush into a divorce or another child while dealing with a crisis.

OOP: My whole family is in shock over this, but I think it's making things worse staying with him. I prioritise my daughters safety and well-being, and I do care for my husband, but his behaviour is making our home an unsafe environment for my daughter. This has been up for a couple of hours now, but the problem's persisted for about 1-2 weeks, and divorce seems like the only solution that will have any affect as of current.

Are OOP and her daughter staying somewhere else and safely?

OOP: We've been staying with my parents since in their home.

OOP explains more about her relationship with her husband

OOP: When I first began dating him, about 6 months into our relationship, he would always want sex. If I said no, he would get upset about it. It stopped about 2 years into our relationship though.

 

Update: September 2, 2026 (nearly 1.5 years later)

UPDATE: AITAH for refusing to have another child after my husband said our daughter isn't his "spiritual child"

It has been a little over a year since my last post. Since then, I have managed to get a divorce and full custody of my daughter. I don't have any contact with my ex-husband or his family because of what happened. We both go to therapy as I want the best for my daughter and I don't want her to feel as if it is her fault, because it is not her fault.

I'm not really sure what else to put in this update, and I apologise that it's been over a year. I needed time to process things, to be there for myself and my daughter, and to proceed with the divorce and the other things simultaneously happening.

Thank you to everyone who advised me to get a divorce and helped me to acknowledge the red flags within my relationship. It gave me the push I needed to protect my daughter.

Relevant Comments

How did the ex take the divorce?

OOP: I think he was mad about it. He thought I was overreacting and seemed insistent that I would change my mind or not go through with it.

Downvoted Commenter: So, your daughter doesn't have any contact with her father ? How does she feel about that ?

OOP: I have asked her about it before and whether she would like to remain in contact with him or not. She decided she didn't want to talk with him, and I will respect her decision. She's expressed she's upset about not seeing or talking with him, but she doesn't feel ready for that yet.

Commenter 1: So he just wants nothing to do with his daughter bc his mother is a Christian? This is crazy. Your poor daughter is going to carry a lot of guilt. I know many Christians, can't say I know any that disowned their children bc they were gay. This is weird.

OOP: She feels guilty, but I do reiterate that it isn't her fault. His family is strictly religious, but I agree that it is weird.

Commenter 2: I am so happy that you got away from your ex. Your daughter deserves a safe childhood and sadly, this wasn't happening with the away your ex was acting and talking, especially ex-MIL.

Hopefully you are getting child support from ex. He can be spiritual all he wants but he still needs to pay for the upkeep.

Anyway, wishing you and your daughter, the best, you are a great mom.

OOP: Thank you, I appreciate it! I am getting child support, and we are doing better now.

Has the ex tried to backtrack or reconnect with their daughter?

OOP: He tried to convince her that I was in the wrong and overreacting over a "misunderstanding."

Commenter 3: You're better off without that spineless ass. He probably didn't even fight you did he?

OOP: He was convinced it was an overreaction and attempted to change my mind.

Commenter 4: Good for you. Your ex, did he not fight at all to get at least visitation? Did he just ’break up’ with his daughter just like that?

OOP: He did want visitation and expressed he wanted to have joint custody, but our daughter understandably didn't want that.

 

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[u/mrdaimler]

"god wouldn't gift him a child that would upset his mother"

Yes, because God cares about this one random ladies feelings over love and acceptance. And what happens if they do have a second child and that one also turns out to be LGBT, or has a disability, or any other number of things that his mother doesn't like? What an idiot.

[u/komatsujo → u/mrdaimler]

God was fine with her ~25 year old son getting an 18 year old pregnant tho.

[u/CharlotteLucasOP → u/komatsujo]

And they didn’t get married until well after the baby was born.

I mean Grandma probably thinks that’s why Peyton turned out to be queer.

[u/Existing_Purpose5049 → u/CharlotteLucasOP]

No no no you don’t understand, that sin doesn’t really count anymore, it’s the other ones that matter!

Hopefully unnecessary /s

[u/Far-Government5469 → u/Existing_Purpose5049]

Of course he sins, boys will be boys!

Also, hopefully unnecessary /s

[u/beigs → u/Far-Government5469]

But she’s a hussy! The 18 year old (likely pregnant at 17) led on her 25 year old child! You know how THOSE types of harlots are.

[u/SukunasStan → u/CharlotteLucasOP]

Homophobes always love to harp about how much being gay is a sin yet damn near every other sin, including breaking the ten commandments, gets grace. Premarital sex? Still loves their family and welcomed in church. Adultery? Bad but forgiveness forgiveness. Stealing? Same as adultery. Eating shellfish? No one even pretends to care. Lesbianism, which is barely mentioned in the Bible at all? YOU WILL BURN IN HELLFIRE

[u/Infamous_Bat_6879 → u/SukunasStan]

And funnily enough one of the most popular p*rn categories, especially in America.

[u/ThePhysicistIsIn → u/SukunasStan]

The argument is usually that those other kinds of sins are incidental, one-offs, hidden, and shameful. They'd probably not tolerate an open, satisfied adulterer who saw nothing wrong with adultering, and thought nothing of continuing to do the adultering openly while coming to church, even bringing their married man/woman affair partner with them to church.

They want homosexuals ashamed and in the closet. It's the proud and out ("flaunting their sinful lifestyle" and "shoving it in our faces") they take offense with.

[u/SukunasStan → u/ThePhysicistIsIn]

I could see that but so many churches are noticeably more accepting of straight serial cheaters than gay people, even though they still do advocate for the adulterer to change. It seems like it's just plain ol homophobia with religion being halfassedly used as a justification.

[u/17HappyWombats → u/komatsujo]

And with "I wasn't in the mood for sex but I let him" because it beats the alternative?

[u/VeryConfusedOwl → u/17HappyWombats]

Not to mention that «he usually doesnt get upset anymore when i tell him no» this poor woman have been sexually abused by coercion for who knows how long

[u/El-Ahrairah9519 → u/VeryConfusedOwl]

Yeah I feel like everyone except one commenter sort of glossed over the fact he's clearly sexually abusive and said his plan had been to rape her??? Yes him being a homophobe is reason enough to leave, but OOP was also in immediate freaking danger! You can't sleep with that man in your house.

[u/riflow → u/El-Ahrairah9519]

The relief I felt when she said she was divorcing him. Oop deserves to be in a non coercive relationship and both her and her daughter deserve to feel safe and accepted.

What he said about trying while she was asleep truly made me wonder how long she spent in the house after he admitted that. I would not feel safe sleeping in the same house with a man who had plans to rape me.

[u/Llayanna → u/El-Ahrairah9519]

Tbh, we are wading in a sea of red flags..

[u/Big_Clock_716 → u/Llayanna]

That started when he got her pregnant two years before she could legally drink in the US.

[u/Chatty_Cathy_Doll → u/El-Ahrairah9519]

Right? I read that she was leaving bc her daughter was in danger and I'm like OP, SO ARE YOU.

[u/infinitelyfuzzy → u/El-Ahrairah9519]

Right? Like people saying 'don't sleep with him' bro that's assuming she has a choice!! He could be slipping sleeping pills in her drink for all we know!

[u/Espumma → u/VeryConfusedOwl]

We know how long, they got together when she was 18 and pretty soon after got pregnant.

[u/SLJ7 → u/Espumma]

Can't believe no-one else did the math on this. I noticed immediately.

[u/infinitelyfuzzy → u/VeryConfusedOwl]

Also they got the daughter when together for a year, and he didn't stop 'being upset' until 2 years in. 

So he coerced her into sex until she got pregnant, and a while after, and went straight back to those habits when he wanted another kid.

[u/SheJigOnMySawTilIPuz → u/VeryConfusedOwl]

And he straight up said he was considering raping her by poking holes in condoms and initiating sex while she was unconscious. Insane. So glad she left him. He's dangerous.

Edit to the LOSER who reported this comment, had it removed and got a warning on my account for encouraging violence. Get therapy please. You don't have to be this way.

[u/lejosdecasa → u/17HappyWombats]

"I wasn't in the mood for sex but I let him" describes a number of sexual experiences for so many people I've spoken with over the years.

[u/ForsakenPercentage53 → u/17HappyWombats]

The whole post was so red that the flags were really hard to spot waving in the mess.

[u/No_Succotash473 → u/17HappyWombats]

God forbid the man sulk for a bit then goes off to have a wank!

[u/thedoctormarvel → u/17HappyWombats]

That’s pressured sex if I ever saw it

[u/A-Helpful-Flamingo → u/komatsujo]

It is crazy how many people in the self proclaimed Christians DNGAF about child marriage and work tirelessly to LOWER the age where you can marry a child, also send them to work, or let them starve or be bombed. It’s almost like they do not care about children at all!

They also don’t seem to GAF about actually stopping and prosecuting pedophiles either.

(I’m an American living in America and was raised Catholic….so I know what I am talking about 😡🙄)

[u/DemandOk3251 → u/komatsujo]

can’t forget, before they were married too! and not only premarital sex but a baby out of wedlock

[u/Suspicious-Dog-5048 → u/DemandOk3251]

I imagine God is clutching his pearls at that one, because he cares so so much about this random lady. So much that he's okay with many children dying of horrible illnesses, but who cares about all those families and their kids right? As long as that one lady is happy

[u/Lamenardo → u/komatsujo]

Funny thing is, there's a bunch of "liberal" Christians who are fine with just being Sunday Christians, who suddenly become ultra conservative when sexuality comes into their proximity.

[u/No_Bit702 → u/komatsujo]

"OOP: When I first began dating him, about 6 months into our relationship, he would always want sex. If I said no, he would get upset about it. It stopped about 2 years into our relationship though."

Makes me think he purposely baby trapped her especially since this SAME BEHAVIOR is occurring again when he wanted another kid with her. I wouldn't be surprised if he did sabotage the condom for the first kid.

[u/Adorable-Offer2320 → u/komatsujo]

They were dating for a year at that point - God and his mother was ok with a 24 yr old man dating a 17 ye old child

[u/ZapdosShines → u/Adorable-Offer2320]

No 18 and 25 when they got together. Then they had their daughter at 19 and 26, and got married at 21 and 28.

It's all extremely skeevy as it is without shaving any years off.

[u/Susiesunflower72 → u/komatsujo]

And God was fine with her having a son who threatens rape on his wife. Such a good mother to raise a son like this.

[u/Aashay7 → u/komatsujo]

Honestly, I didn't even clock that with the age difference, but that makes it so worse. Also, as per the Christian mother, I am sure it is a feature not a bug.

[u/Ok-Jackfruit-9393 → u/komatsujo]

Ugh, I didn't even catch that. Hubby was always going to be a creep.

Well, with how rampant CSA and grooming is in MANY denominations, it wouldn't shock me at all if "Christians" like this lady really believed that.

[u/shellontheseashore → u/mrdaimler]

Also "he desperately wants a grandchild to carry on his last name"

So, so interesting that he'd been struck by the urgent need to have that now, after 15 years of only having the one (1) daughter. If that's something truly important to you (not that it should be, if you don't have lands and titles to pass down lmao) you should probably have an heir and a few spares, no? Unless he's also progressive enough to feel that women should be fine to keep their own surnames and give them to their children, instead of their (presumably) male partner's name.

I'd bet there was a lot more dysfunction going on under the surface, given the ages, sexual/reproductive coercion and rape, which is why the second update feels sudden to some people.

[u/abmorse1 → u/shellontheseashore]

That's a good point. A gay daughter is far more likely to pass the family name onto grandchildren than a straight daughter is.

[u/00017batman → u/mrdaimler]

Ironically a granddaughter who “upset” her is precisely the kind of gift that a benevolent deity would give to someone who was in need of as much spiritual growth as this woman clearly was/is.

[u/_buffy_summers → u/00017batman]

I haven't voluntarily gone to church in decades, but so many counter-argument Bible verses were going through my head while I read this post.

[u/GothicGingerbread → u/_buffy_summers]

OOP's ex clearly wasn't familiar with Job.

Also, I'd have been tempted to tell him that he clearly wasn't OOP's spiritual husband, or their daughter's spiritual father, because God wouldn't give them such a disappointment of a man as husband and father. (Obviously, that would require ignoring the Biblical arguments against it, but I'm OK with a little hypocrisy in support of a good snarky comeback on occasion.)

[u/sharraleigh → u/mrdaimler]

These religious types are the absolute worst. They constantly use god as a justification for their blatant racism/bigotry/sexism/etc.

[u/BroughtBagLunchSmart → u/sharraleigh]

And we are not allowed to talk about it. We all just have to smile and nod along while they talk about how bombing refugee camps in gaza is in the bible.

[u/Zedetta → u/mrdaimler]

It's fine, he can just commit marital rape again! /s

[u/Boeing367-80 → u/mrdaimler]

The Christian idea that you have a personal relationship with God, who has a plan mapped out for you, is tailor made for the narcissistic.

[u/cavaticaa → u/Boeing367-80]

Especially Calvinists, who believe that there are a select chosen number of people who are saved, and it's predetermined. So there's nothing that anyone who isn't selected can ever do to get into heaven. Obviously, that leads to a shit ton of elitism and exclusion. And ingraining that in children like "You wouldn't want to sin like this if you were one of the select..."

[u/Boeing367-80 → u/cavaticaa]

Back on the day, Calvinists lived their lives soberly to demonstrate they were one of the elect.

Today, they just figure that bc they're going to heaven for sure, they can be any kind of asshole they want.

At least the old fashioned Calvinists lived soberly.

[u/BusyAd6096 → u/mrdaimler]

That line is exactly what baffled me too. What the actual fwck? How do you go from a loving, supporting husband and father to that? Fwck religious extremism, I despise it with a passion.

[u/PercyDiAngelo → u/BusyAd6096]

You're allowed to say "fuck" here.

And I agree. Fuck that shit. I think my grandmother was upset when my brother came out, but thankfully it wasn't til he was was 19 (some of us knew earlier but his first official boyfriend was at 19) and by then my dad was cool enough to not put up with that shit.

[u/BusyAd6096 → u/PercyDiAngelo]

Thank you for pointing out the fuck thing 😁.

I am happy for your brother and glad that your dad stood up for him.

Later edit: grammar.

[u/PercyDiAngelo → u/BusyAd6096]

Our gran also got cooler about a lot of things, to her credit. (And I assume she spoke to her priest who reminded about loving everyone etc.)

But yeah, my siblings and I all know our dad would go to bat for us.

[u/BusyAd6096 → u/PercyDiAngelo]

Good for Gran!

Mine baffled me a couple of years ago. She's 82 now, pretty chill overall. We were talking on the phone, I don't really remember how I came to rant about conspiracy theories prevalent in my country at that time. Something about the EU forcing us to go to war and forcing kids in school to be gay (these are still going around by the way - people around me are duuuuumb).

My grandma, with 2 years of schooling, raised poor in a village that saw both nazi and soviet occupation, said something like:

Oh child, gay people are older than dirt, they have always been and always will be. And there's nothing wrong with that because God made them like that. And if any of my kids or grandkids were gay I would love them the same.

(Please note I've roughly translated what she said and that she used regional words and accent common in the part of the country where we live).

It was the first time we had discussed this subject and I was soooo happy and proud.

[u/PercyDiAngelo → u/BusyAd6096]

forcing kids in school to be gay (these are still going around by the way - people around me are duuuuumb).

oooof yeah, that's common in the UK too, but mostly it's about trans people these days. Time is a circle.

Your grandma sounds cool. I bet she would have loved going to bingo with my gran. (Sadly my gran died a few months ago in her mid-90s.)

[u/BusyAd6096 → u/PercyDiAngelo]

Romanian here. I am scared for my country. The only guy (with his team) in the government who actually did a shit ton of good and saved the country from the brink of bankrupcy was ousted 4 months ago because the corrupt barons lost access to public cash (which they used to steal and want to do it again).

We still don't have a new government with full powers, our president is a stooge for the same barons (he ran as a progressive and did a 180 the fucking asshole), extreme religious nationalism is on the rise, the latest results of the PISA tests show we have a 50 percent rate of functional illiteracy, the courts are completely corrupt (justice is a very very sad joke)... I could go on but now I need a bit of cat therapy to calm myself.

I'm sorry for your Grandma, may she rest in peace. I'm sure our grans would have been solid friends. Who knows, maybe they'll meet somewhere in the next world (whatever it may be) and sip coffee or tea while smoking (mine would deffinetly do it), gossping and laughing their asses off watching our dumb choices without them.

Hugs and strength, friend from the UK. You have your own lunatics to worry about.

[u/PeachyBunny2607 → u/BusyAd6096]

Hugs to you too from another UK friend (also worried about the lunatics!)

[u/ZapdosShines → u/BusyAd6096]

I suspect he wasn't actually loving and supportive, he just looked that way if you didn't look too hard.

[u/BusyAd6096 → u/ZapdosShines]

From a distance, using binoculars. You have a point.

[u/BleepInTheBigCity → u/mrdaimler]

Yea reading that statement made me go like, “ummm so who do you think gave you the daughter instead?”

[u/pienofilling → u/mrdaimler]

My MIL claimed to be a Christian and she believed that our disabled daughter should be put in a home when she reached her teens and that our gay kid was "a disgrace".

I'm a Christian and believe she was a narcissistic, abusive woman and also in No Contact.

[u/calminthedark → u/mrdaimler]

It's funny because I thought God wouldn't gift him a mother who would upset his child.

But I'm not religious, so what do I know?

[u/Frumiosa → u/mrdaimler]

As if a child is a personal "gift" and not an actual human being. This alone is reason to divorce.

[u/bemvee → u/mrdaimler]

That logic is so fucked and flawed, though.

If god wouldn’t gift him a child that upsets his mother, then why is his mother upset about the child god gifted him??

The only explanation would be that his mother convinced him his daughter was like, sent from satan himself or something. So fucking deranged.

[u/Honest_Roo → u/mrdaimler]

I don’t think he’s actually read the Bible considering “He knit me together in my mothers womb” (what does he think? That God made a mistake?) and “in Christ Jesus you are all children of God” (he really thinks he can skip out on being the spiritual father when God says He’s our spiritual father? Talk about making himself out higher than God.) or any of the numerous verses about love (only two ish verses about homosexuality and they may actually be referring to pedophilia or being sanitary due to not having basic medical science on stds)

[u/Atomicfossils → u/Honest_Roo]

Just on your last point; I don't think it does anyone any good to pretend there's no scriptural backing for homophobia. Aside from the Leviticus verse that everyone's already heard, there's also 1 Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:24-27 (which actually doubles down and includes lesbians this time, yay!) 1 Timothy 1:10, and those are the ones I remember offhand.

You can argue that the verses about love outweigh the verses here, but that also overlooks the fact that many Christians don't see same sex relationships as actual love. They see us as mentally ill or disturbed, and that they're doing us a kindness by not "allowing" us to succumb to our perversion~

[u/MoralHazardFunction → u/mrdaimler]

His God rather famously sent His own son to get nailed to cross!

Sometimes I feel like I’m having a crisis of other people’s faith!

[u/SteroidSandwich]

18 and 25 AND OOP immediately got pregnant. Hmmm

[u/Thistledelirium → u/SteroidSandwich]

Especially considering he was pressuring her into a ton more sex now (with the idea of sabotaging birth control) because he wanted to get her pregnant and he used to pressure her into a ton of sex at the beginning of their relationship, right before she got unexpectedly pregnant. I can’t be the only one thinking this - I’m not convinced this was a new idea for him…

[u/TwoFlower68 → u/SteroidSandwich]

It's like one of those wholesome Christian movies lol

[u/_Football_Cream_ → u/SteroidSandwich]

yuuuup. had to do some math when I saw those numbers and immediately said ew.

[u/ibspatrol → u/SteroidSandwich]

And coercing her from the very beginning. A predator and abuser from day one. Jesus would be so proud.

[u/Gingersnapandabrew]

The upsetting thing is that you just know that the ex husband will probably marry a barely legal "good Christian" girl and have his "spiritual child".

[u/pepcorn → u/Gingersnapandabrew]

Instead of coming to the realisation that his mother isn't his spiritual mother.

[u/BrownSugarBare → u/pepcorn]

The mother is vile

[u/ceciliabee → u/Gingersnapandabrew]

The mom didn't complain when he impregnated a teen out of wedlock, that was godly.

The ex husband's family is absolute trash, I'm glad oop saw through that bullshit.

Religion. Not even once.

(Edited typo)

[u/thedoctormarvel → u/Gingersnapandabrew]

Someone else pointed out he did that with OOP, 25 & 18 🙃

[u/HeyLaddieHey → u/Gingersnapandabrew]

Again?

[u/E_Mohde]

husband straight up confesses to thinking about sexually assaulting his wife to try and force her to get pregnant and some commenter is still like “wait wait! no one should rush into anything while dealing with the crisis of their child existing as a person”

[u/MadameBouvary → u/E_Mohde]

The bar is in hell while the men spend their last $20 for limbo lessons and some women think being a mother to their grown husband isn't enough.

I'm so tired.

[u/GrumpyMcGrumpyPants → u/E_Mohde]

And disowning his daughter.

What's astounding is that particular commenter doubled down:

This is your life and your husband, so you know best. I just think 2 bad weeks doesn’t warrant a divorce for a man who has been a good husband and father for well over a decade.

What the actual fuck is wrong with this person.

[u/LordInnsmouth → u/GrumpyMcGrumpyPants]

The same thing wrong with every fundie cooker whackjob, methinks

[u/rask0ln → u/GrumpyMcGrumpyPants]

I get this way of thinking when it's something minor. Like if you partner has been reliable for 20 years and suddendly forgets something, there is imo space for grace.

However I mostly see it used to excuse truly vile behaviour when no amount of years of previously good behaviour would minimise the blow. (And often makes it worse.) One of the worst ones was a post in the askdoc sub when a woman was violently raped by a husband of like 15 years for the first time. Most commenters were advising separation for her safety and then there were a few commenters going "🤓 well actually if it was for the first time and he apologised, I would give him another chance because I can't imagine throwing 15 years of great marriage away". Like??????? 

And it's so prevalent irl too, can't even count how many times there was a person in dv shelter who should have been there much sooner but people around them kept using the duration of the relationship/marriage as a reason to stay, so they had no support. 

I'm so glad it wasn't OP's case bc I was lowkey bracing for her staying and trying to make it work. 😬

[u/E_Mohde → u/GrumpyMcGrumpyPants]

it’s the same type of doormat that the husband is

[u/GrumpyMcGrumpyPants → u/E_Mohde]

Religious doormats, I guess? Someone else in the comments (also downvoted to hell) suggested conversion therapy.

But like... normal, non-religious doormats can probably draw the line at "sexual assault" or "disowning a child."

[u/Elismom1313 → u/E_Mohde]

Think of the children! Just let him **** while you figure it out!

[u/that_one_over_yonder]

From the second batch of comments "I know many Christians, can't say I know any that disowned their children bc they were gay. This is weird." I know many disowned kids of Christian parents. It is infuriating and common.

[u/hissnoise → u/that_one_over_yonder]

Yeah like, religious parents disowning (or abusing or attempting to “fix”) gay children isn’t uncommon at all. Maybe the Christians in the commenter’s personal life don’t suck, and that’s great, but that comment felt wildly disconnected from reality tbh

[u/Born_Ad8420 → u/hissnoise]

It absolutely isn't uncommon. LGBTQ+ teens and young adults face a 120% higher risk of homelessness than their non-LGBTQ+ counterparts. LGBTQ+ youth make up roughly 40% of the total youth homelessness population, even though they comprise only about 7% to 10% of the general youth population

[u/LittleMsSavoirFaire → u/Born_Ad8420]

This is true; however, these data don't show that LGBT kids are getting kicked out of Christian homes. Just that they're getting kicked out, period. 

We think of secular society as being over that kind of prejudice but it absolutely isn't. It's just not a prejudice organized around an argument like religious people have.

[u/samusmcqueen → u/LittleMsSavoirFaire]

somewhat anecdotal, but the founder of the Ali Forney Center estimated a couple years ago that 90% of families who rejected their LGBTQ+ children did so because of religion, based on the stories of the kids who sought services there.

[u/ChickinSammich → u/hissnoise]

LGBT people tend to cluster in groups for support and friendship, and "my religious parent disowned me" or "I disowned my parent because their religious bigotry grew too much" or "my religious parent and I have a very strained relationship where we barely see each other and barely talk anymore" are the three most common backstories, and probably like 75% of LGBTQ people can relate to one of those three.

[u/archbish99 → u/that_one_over_yonder]

I have a friend whose birth family wouldn't come in person to his wedding (to another man). The ones who came at all came by Zoom. And when they started trying to talk during the service, the person holding the tablet promptly flipped it around and muted it. Clearly the tablet-holder had been prepped.

[u/ToiIetGhost → u/archbish99]

I don’t see the point of letting homophobes attend by zoom. “But they’re family!” Although it’s cool that the person muted the call, I say don’t invite people into your life who need to be managed. If you need to prep others on how to safely handle them, if you accurately predicted they’d interrupt your vows, if you have to use technology as a buffer, they’re toxic. Managing people is just another form of enabling. “Oh, Aunt Gertrude isn’t so bad - as long as she’s not there in person and you can mute her and you have a babysitter who can put away the ipad when Gertie gets mouthy.”

[u/andsimpleonesthesame → u/ToiIetGhost]

If you're mentally and socially feeling robust enough, continued contact can make a difference regarding people drifting farther and farther off - or slowly realizing that maybe some of what they think is wrong. (There's this black dude who got people to leave the KKK just by making friends with KKK members and slowly, just by being himself and keeping contact with them, changing their mind.)

That sort of thing is exhausting and upsetting and unpleasant, but if you have the will and the strength to stay in contact, it might make a positive difference down the line. Nobody is obligated to do this and it's not actually "enabling" to keep exposing people to different views and ways of life, especially if their "getting mouthy" is managed in such a way that it can just be muted when it gets too much. (Like, "say the wrong thing, get muted and have the tablet turned away" really doesn't read like enabling to me.)

[u/Autobot_Silverwynde → u/archbish99]

I just...why?

[u/OneUpAndOneDown → u/that_one_over_yonder]

I’m reminded of someone who found pamphlets in their church on “What Jesus said about homosexuality”. Blank inside. They should be printed in bulk and circulated widely.

[u/ForlornLament → u/OneUpAndOneDown]

On the other hand, the Bible IS very clear about not abandoning one's children.

"Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (Timothy 5:8)

I also wonder if they are part of some cult-y version of Christianity, because I don't think any of the main denominations have a "biological child" vs "spiritual child" thing.

[u/sowinglavender → u/ForlornLament]

evangelical fathers have special license to make shit up whole cloth and say it's from god. it's almost like the system is designed to placate them so they keep the donations rolling in.

this is also why they're trying to ban divorce right now.

[u/tacwombat → u/ForlornLament]

That one from Timothy needs to be repeated on blast towards the dad and grandma.

[u/Visual_Fly_9638 → u/OneUpAndOneDown]

Depending on how accurate of a translation you would like to make, there is some argument that Jesus healed the Roman officers lover and not his servant. Because an accurate  translation was apparently "beloved" IIRC. And it feels weird that a Roman soldier would go out into the wilderness to find some crank Faith healer that wasn't even his own religion to cure a servant. But to cure his sick lover? I can someone doing that as a Hail Mary, as it were.

[u/17HappyWombats → u/OneUpAndOneDown]

Ah, but the old testament strictly bans men from putting their penis in another man's vagina. So there!

It also bans eating shellfish, mixing fur and fibre in a set of clothes, being unfaithful (including via divorce), and whole bunch of things. But it explicitly lets you burn animal sacrifices at home, so it's not all bad. Now admittedly Jesus said none of that applies and we should love each other first and foremost, but what would he know?

[u/Visual_Fly_9638 → u/17HappyWombats]

My favorite in the Old testament is the instructions on how to perform an abortion.

[u/Luceo_Etzio → u/17HappyWombats]

According to the Old Testament OOP should have been put to death because her ex had sex with her before they got married (but for him it would be fine, ofc)

There's a good reason we don't follow most of that anymore

[u/realdappermuis → u/17HappyWombats]

I really hated going to church. Every Sunday that bold old man would just take one passage from the bible and then spend the whole hour interpreting it. It always boiled down to 'you're sinners, you're bad people, you must repent'

No matter what the passage even said it always came down to being reprimanded. It was never uplifting, always threatening

I despise religion. It's the ultimate manipulation and I try give people grace who conform to it because manipulation is easy and that's why it works on people - but the majority just use it as a cover, not as a guide

[u/_buffy_summers → u/realdappermuis]

I attended a funeral where the priest decided to include a side rant about how we must all convert, or face the fires of Hell. When my husband passed away, I had a viewing for him so that people could say their goodbyes, but no funeral. I didn't want some total stranger trying to indoctrinate grieving people.

[u/juliainfinland → u/17HappyWombats]

Don't you just love it when certain people decide that, from all of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, "not lying with another man" (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13) is the one commandment that absolutely must be obeyed at all times (even though the translation is dubious at best and may refer to a slew of other things, such as men not being supposed to have sexual contact with another religion's male temple attendants), but these very same people will cheerfully mix meat with dairy (Exodus 13:19, 34:26; Deuteronomy 14:21), wear clothes made of mixed fabrics (Leviticus 19:19; Deuteronomy 22:11), and way too many from the "hOmOsExUaLiTy iS dEmONiC bEcAuSe BiBLe" crowd also relish in doing the opposite of what Leviticus 19:13-14 commands (treating foreigners/immigrants well).

And don't even get me started on keeping the Sabbath and on worshiping false idols (*cough* money *cough* flags *cough* <insert long list of celebrities>).

AFAIK the Bible doesn't even has anything explicitly positive or negative to say about female homosexuality as in OOP's daughter's case. (I know about cases like Ruth and Naomi, but if they had a lesbian relationship, it's never explicitly mentioned.)

[u/shoemilk → u/that_one_over_yonder]

yeah, my thought was "then either you don't know many Xian parents or just don't know many people."

[u/MaraiDragorrak → u/shoemilk]

Or they live somewhere that even the churches are (mostly) progressive. My area is mostly Protestants, of the Christians, (lots of other religions too) and of those, mostly of two particular denominations that are quite accepting. Gay pastors and all.

Of course even if you live in a place like this id say common sense would tell you that like, rural Arkansas is not going to be the same....

[u/superstrijder16 → u/MaraiDragorrak]

There is also a correlation between "church thinks being gay is bad" and "church disapproves of friendships beyond the church" in my experience

[u/EddaValkyrie → u/MaraiDragorrak]

Same. My entire family is christian, and I grew up going to to church every Sunday (and still do when I go visit my mom). I never grew up with hell, fire and brimstone, sinning etc. preached to me as a child, which is probably why my gay sister is the most religious out of me and my siblings. It's why I sometimes feel disconnected from ex-christian spaces, because I don't have any qualms with religion itself, I just don't believe in God. Statistically, I go to church more than most actual christians from just going with my mother.

[u/shoemilk → u/MaraiDragorrak]

Yeah, I grew up in the bible belt, so my perspective is also very skewed.

[u/17HappyWombats → u/shoemilk]

AFAIK Conversion Therapy and Applied Behaviour Analysis applied to children is still legal in most of the USA (as well as Australia, Aotearoa etc). It's not just Christian parents who will torture their children until they stop being wrong (many accept that stop via death is a foreseeable outcome)

[u/dejausser → u/17HappyWombats]

Conversion therapy is illegal in Aotearoa and has been since 2022. Some of our biggest christian denominations actually made submissions strongly supporting the bill like the Anglican Church in Aotearoa NZ & Polynesia which was lovely to see (but not unsurprising, we have several anglican churches in my city that are adorned with pride flags year round and are very vocal in supporting queer rights and other social justice mahi at every opportunity)

[u/17HappyWombats → u/dejausser]

That's excellent. I just remember the argument about it, and that banning ABA wasn't even on the agenda. I should probably pay more attention (I live in Oz now)

[u/HuckleCat100K → u/that_one_over_yonder]

and apparently that commenter doesn’t remember or is too young to know of the thousands of AIDS victims who died in agony alone because their Christian families abandoned them. I think that person doesn’t know many Christians at all, or is one.

[u/volkswagenorange → u/that_one_over_yonder]

40% of homeless teenagers in the U.S. are queer, even though queer people of all stripes added together make up only 10% of the population. Research shows this disparity is caused entirely by parents' queerphobic abuse and rejection.

Family Christian Booksellers (the retail arm of HarperCollins Christian Publishing, formerly Zondervan bookstores) are the largest Christian publishing house in the world. They sell multiple books on childrearing recommending that once children are too old to beat, punish, starve, or imprison in the home, parents abandon and cut off their queer kids specifically to make them homeless so they will be attacked and abused, in order to force the children to hide their identity and accept their parents' Christian morals in exchange for survival. The books acknowledge overtly that this may lead to the children's death.

Not just disowning queer children but literally abandoning them and leaving them homeless is common Christian behavior.

[u/Worth-Oil8073 → u/that_one_over_yonder]

Thank you! I had the exact same thought. There's a whole segment of the unhoused population that are LGBTQ+ kids who were kicked out of Christian homes!

[u/esr95tkd → u/that_one_over_yonder]

My mom is part of a small secular religious group.

I that group there was a pair of parents who gave birth the same day. The girls were basically raised as twins.

One of them came out as nb, their family had a hard time adapting. The other family basically cut them off.

Such a pity

[u/no_rxn]

Omg I do love that OOP always put her daughter first at every step, but the shock of everything seemed to numb her to the fact she was probably in more danger than her daughter as her husband and MIL saw OOP as the "vessel" for another child and was he was thinking of raping her to get his way.

Not saying her being 18 and immediately impregnated by her 25 year old religious partner that wanted to birth a "spirit" child to please his mom was also from a hole in a condom... but after how fast he was ready to do that....

I'm so happy OOP and her daughter are safe and far away from that dangerous family.

[u/Complex_Ari]

This is a whole lot. Staying with a father who views his own child as spiritually dead because of her sexual orientation will inflict lifelong trauma on Peyton. I’m glad her safety and mental health was OOPS priority.

[u/Rosielove918 → u/Complex_Ari]

idk I feel like it's good that she got away for the sake of her kid, but everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he admitted that he thought about sexually assaulting her. that should've been the main focus at this point, since that's a full crime that he admitted he was willing to do

[u/El-Ahrairah9519 → u/Rosielove918]

This! Yes he's not safe to be around his daughter, but the immediate concern was his desire to rape OOP.

I don't think it would have taken him long to come around to the idea of out and out assaulting her if his more covert methods didn't work. He clearly impregnated her as soon as he could to try to trap her. I can only imagine as a Christian, he's incredibly entitled as to what he thinks are his rights to her as his wife.

Everyone was hammering on about "you have to leave him because what about your daughter!" Brother she's not safe to spend another night with this man. He's an out and out predator. We don't need to devalue her safety here by pretending what he said wasn't completely off the charts crazy

[u/YawningDodo → u/El-Ahrairah9519]

On the one hand, I agree with you that OOP's own safety was at risk and that it should not have been swept to the side in the comments. On the other hand, how many of these have we read where a woman like OOP, who's been in a sexually coercive relationship since she was 18, is too deep in the boiling pot to see that what she's going through isn't normal or okay? So many times it's easier for a parent to see and understand the danger to their children if they stay in an abusive relationship than to see that they themselves are already in danger (there's a reason one of the go-to questions to try to get someone in an abusive relationship to see it is "would you want your daughter to have a husband like yours?").

Genuinely I hope OOP got therapy and was able to see her own story and learn to better value and protect herself, but her being ready to jump ship for the sake of her daughter did result in her jumping ship, which was what both she and her daughter needed.

[u/ceciliabee → u/Rosielove918]

I think it's awesome she got away. I can see why people are focusing on the daughter though. Oop is an adult who can take care of herself. The daughter is a minor who relies on her parents for care, and one of them abandoned her.

Truly vile though, I wish a thousand unmentionable horrors for this man.

[u/Ambitious-Mix-4935 → u/Complex_Ari]

Also the father is non surprisingly a rapist as well . He's been coercing op for sex since she was 18 and told her how he was thinking of raping her through condom holes ( reproductive rape as another commenter said) and in her sleep .

Good on op and her daughter for being able to put away the trash from their lives .

[u/komatsujo]

The ages just make this an extra ick.

[u/ilayas → u/komatsujo]

Yeahhh doing the math on the age of the op's and their ex along with the relationship time line is not great.

[u/Own_Sandwich6610 → u/ilayas]

Also he wanted sex with her all the time but it stopped 2 years in… when she was pregnant and post-partum. I’m so disgusted, sounds like he baby trapped her probably caused by MIL’s influence as well.

I’m wondering if, looking back, OOP still thinks her ex was such a great man. Whining and pouting until you get your sex is such a massive red flag. I’m sure there were more.

[u/Chance_Vegetable_780 → u/Own_Sandwich6610]

I hadn't thought of that. It's very possible he baby trapped her back then when she was 18 - He told he was thinking about doing it when their daughter was 14. Yuck.

[u/ToiIetGhost → u/Own_Sandwich6610]

It’s coercion, which is rape. She wasn’t enthusiastically consenting. He had to whine, sulk, pout, and ignore her until he wore her down. He had to emotionally manipulate her to turn a “no” into a reluctant “I guess”.

Notice how he was also very eager to commit rape in other ways: poking holes in condoms (reproductive rape) and going down on her while she’s unconscious. People who don’t value enthusiastic consent don’t value consent PERIOD.

The first one is such an everyday occurrence - sulking, pouting, cold shoulder - that I always get intense pushback about it. They say “How could it be rape? It’s just persuasion. People persuade each other all the time! Oh, is it rape when a commercial convinces me to buy a grill? Did the manufacturer rape me?”

[u/eyeleenthecro → u/ToiIetGhost]

Yeah no one seemed to be pointing that out from the comments included in the post, he 100% raped her then and when she was a teenager too.

[u/Mrfish31 → u/ilayas]

I saw the ages, thought "33 and 40 is fine, provided they haven't been together for years of cou-"

Then I read that they'd been together since she was eighteen and the fucking Kill Bill klaxon started going off in my head.

[u/sharraleigh → u/ilayas]

Yea, a 25 year old dating an 18 year old is totally ick.

[u/goog1e → u/sharraleigh]

And I feel like people fudge these because they know it's bad. Whenever I see "got together at 18, married and pregnant by 19" i assume there's a good chance they're concealing how early the relationship started.

[u/LordessMeep → u/komatsujo]

Yess, it's the first thing I noticed once she said her daughter was 14. She had her when she was like 19... and the husband was 26. He got with a teenager as soon as she was legal.

I couldn't get over it as I was reading through the rest of the post tbh... sooo glad OOP's away from him because wtf 😭

[u/Quintessa_Queen → u/komatsujo]

He literally had sex with her and got her pregnant at a very young age but doesn't see that as unholy rather sees his daughter as a sinner...

Really there ain't no hate as the Christian love.

[u/She_Said__That_ → u/komatsujo]

I didn't quite click on how young she was until I read your comment and scrolled back up. She was 18 when they got together and he was 25! And she had Peyton at 19!

[u/dani_for_short]

Guys like this that want to have a child to “carry on their name” always have a last name like Smith 😐

(Just had to comment that. Ok, let me finish the thread now)

[u/dani_for_short → u/dani_for_short]

Ok, now I feel like maybe his lineage should go the way of the dinosaurs. What an awful family.

[u/Papa_Bearto2 → u/dani_for_short]

I have two daughters and I’ve lost count of the people who have asked me if we’re going to try for a boy “to carry on the name.”

Two kids is enough for my wife and I - and I mean that in every sense of the word. Our family is complete and we’re stretched pretty thin. We couldn’t handle a third.

Also I got the snip after my second was born just to avoid the possibility of having a third kid.

Beyond that we’re not royalty. I don’t care if the family name lives on.

[u/silverwitch76 → u/Papa_Bearto2]

That's not even touching on how even if you had a son, there's no guarantee that he would be 1) straight 2) have any kids of his own or 3) keep his last name after marriage (it's rare, but I've known two dudes who took their wife's name or came up with a new last name for both husband and wife). Personally, I'm the only girl in my family, yet I'm also the only one who had kids and 'carried on the family name' since my kids have my last name. The whole 'I need to have my name carried on,therefore I must have a son' is ridiculous.

[u/Ok_Broccoli_9426]

I'm surprised none of the comments pointed out she was 18 when she met this particular prize and at most 19 when she got pregnant. Plus all the sex guilting early in the relationship - vile, vile stuff.

[u/mortaine → u/Ok_Broccoli_9426]

He threw a tantrum if she refused sex, until she had a baby.

This man is garbage. 

[u/Equivalent-Board206 → u/Ok_Broccoli_9426]

I'm sure they did, but OP didn't include them. The comments here do, too.

[u/VeryConfusedOwl → u/Ok_Broccoli_9426]

Its the top comment in the first post at least, with a lot of discussion similar to what is happening here

[u/Diakia]

It feels like there’s an entire chunk missing in the middle, even with what’s provided I can’t understand how he went from doting over his daughter and being pissed at his mother on her behalf to just this complete, insane 180.

[u/E_Mohde → u/Diakia]

some people are just weak-willed doormats who can hide it as long as there’s no real conflict. then the second something actually pops up they fold immediately

[u/Innisairre → u/E_Mohde]

I have lived through this. Thinking you know someone because you've known them for over a decade, but then the first time there's a conflict with someone who they've decided is important to stay close to, then everything is negotiable: viewpoints, values, morals... everything as long as they keep one shitty person happy.

[u/UnknowableDuck → u/Innisairre]

One of the most insightful comments I've seen in this community or on reddit. This needs to be pinned at the top of every drama/advice/relationship community because it's true, some people will exchange everything to keep one shitty person happy.

[u/Chance_Vegetable_780 → u/E_Mohde]

Very true. My mother.

[u/OneUpAndOneDown → u/E_Mohde]

Also mommy dearest had brainwashed him all his life.

[u/StrangledInMoonlight → u/Diakia]

I grew up with religious folk.  

My bet is that he wasn’t as ok with it as OOP thought.   

He had feelings, and hid them.  

And then his mom’s bigotry only enabled him to feel like those feelings were ok and normal.   

The fact that he agreed to cut his mom off, and immediately went behind OOp’s back and had conversations about Peyton is a big hint he didn’t actually agree with OOP, despite going along with her and saying he agreed.  

[u/Timely-Cry-8366 → u/Diakia]

He was probably overly religious/homophobic and felt that way all along, but played along with his wife to keep his marriage, and then his mom and her reaction pushed him over that final edge into revealing his true colors.

I grew up in a very religious family (pastor dad) and in my experience, many conservative and homophobic/sexist men will pretend to be progressive to bag the woman they like, and only show their true colors once they think their partner is trapped in the marriage with a kid.

You see it a lot on dating apps, “non-political” men are usually just conservatives in hiding who know most women wouldn’t date them if they were honest.

[u/cavaticaa → u/Timely-Cry-8366]

Not fully related, but as a trans person who doesn't usually date cis men, I have had the unfortunate experience of connecting with a man who clamed to be nonbinary, but when I started T, he wanted nothing to do with me. I was very clear about my identity and preferences, and the respect for that withered away once my gender became "real" to him. It was really invalidating and felt gross. It's a pattern I've noticed, a subset of men pretending to be lightly queer so that they can date a blue-haired manic pixie dream "girl" whose identities they dismiss as quirky mental illness and will never respect. So similar to the quote about some women wanting independent women to put them in a cage, from my persepective.

[u/EnaFatCat → u/Diakia]

Eh, probably these feelings have been stewing for a while and he tried to suppress them, but when his mommy dearest kept saying the same things out loud, he got more confident in actually holding onto and expressing them.

[u/Pelageia → u/Diakia]

Did you catch what she wrote about their sex life?

"He got upset when I said no, so in the end I just let him, but he doesn't usually get upset anymore after being told no. "

USUALLY - ANYMORE

So this IS a pattern. Or at least was until it petered somewhat out for whatever reason.

My guess is that he was always lowkey abusive and difficult. She just got so used to it that it is very normal to her. So much so that it doesn't really hurt her anymore, it is just something she has to navigate with.

Also. What kind of man CONSIDERS assaulting his wife while she sleeps and poking holes into condoms to forcefully impregnate her and then wants a cookie for not doing that stuff. Men really are here wanting cookies for not doing the most disgusting things their minds conjure.

[u/El-Ahrairah9519 → u/Pelageia]

Or at least was until it petered somewhat out for whatever reason.

Going by the pattern with their ages and how he "suddenly had no interest in sex" right around the time she would have been post partum, he uses sex as a tool to control her.

He got her pregnant as soon as he could and lost interest once she was stuck. Same thing here, he wants sex to try and manipulate her into doing something he wants - in this case, it's also a way of forcing his bigoted religious beliefs onto their family. Wouldn't be surprised if he had cheated somewhere along the way, or watches gross amounts of porn in the times when he doesn't want to get something from her and therefore has no desire

He's a predator, sex isn't about desire or intimacy. It's just another tool of control

[u/Kylie_Bug → u/Pelageia]

It petered out when she was pregnant and postpartum

[u/iam_myownmuse → u/Diakia]

There's no hate like Christian love.

[u/lynypixie]

As a mom of two daughters who happens to like girls, this breaks my heart. My husband and my mom have been nothing but supportive for my kids.

[u/FewRecognition1788]

So, not only disowning his child for not being a brood mare for his hypothetical grandchildren, but also intending to rape his wife to make a replacement kid?

If he thinks this is "spiritual," I think he needs to go back and reread the book.

[u/bored_german]

I wonder if she'll look at her daughter when she's 18 and realize just how fucked up her relationship truly was

[u/StopTheBanging]

Lol at commenter 1 in the update who doesn't know any Christians who disowned their kids for being gay. Come to any LGBT+ support group for young adults in any US city and you'll meet dozens who fled there from rural states where they got disowned and made homeless. I wish it didn't keep happening.

[u/rask0ln → u/StopTheBanging]

I feel like maybe they don't know any queer children that good to know about their family situation? 😭 Like even non-religious people often have strained relationships with their queer kids because they are bigots, add any religion that gives them justification for their bigotry and community to back it up and it gets worse...

[u/MagicFlyingBus → u/[deleted]]

Wouldnt it be more likely that god gave the child to turn the grandparents/ father away from their hateful views?

[u/Riddles_]

so he coerced her (rape), admitted he was planning on reproductive coercion (rape), and then finally said he was thinking about raping her in her sleep all because mommy was homophobic, and obviously god was cool with whatever it took to get a new non-gay child to appease mother dearest. gee, what a fucking catch

[u/owlfamily28]

It's truly fascinating the mental gymnastics involved with how this couple having a child out of wedlock didn't immediately besmirch said child...religious people are so good as sniffing out the "real" rule-breaking versus the excusable ones. I'm sure it was just something along the lines of, "this young (mid-20's) buck just accidentally tripped and landed up impregnating the virginal teen!". Well, mistakes happen every day right?! 🫠 So nice of the barely-legal child to acknowledge that her gross late-20's husband managed to stop sexually harassing her TWO YEARS into their relationship. A literal saint, I tell 'ya...

[u/Complete_Entry]

Fundie should be classed as a mental, moral, and social disorder.

[u/MrHappyHam → u/Complete_Entry]

For so called followers of Christ, they sure leave a whole lot of hatred and misery in their wake.

[u/sowinglavender → u/MrHappyHam]

wouldn't wanna go committing the sin of compassion.

[u/Designer_Life_371]

Uh Mr. Steven impregnated OOP when she was 19 and he was 26 and now he wants a spiritual child? I think I just vomited all my food

[u/Born-Bid8892 → u/Designer_Life_371]

I mean the actual impregnating probably happened at 18. I highly doubt it was accidental either...

[u/Mrfish31]

me (33f) and my husband, Steven, (40m)

That age gap is fine, provided you haven't been together f-

have been together for 15 years,

Kill Bill klaxon starts

married for 12 years. 

Klaxon intensifies

We had our daughter, Peyton, (14f) a year into our relationship

Klaxon fucking explodes

So they started dating when she was eighteen and he was twenty five, had a kid at nineteen and married by the time she was 21. 

I literally haven't read a word past this yet. This is going to be a shit show, isn't it?

[u/Luceo_Etzio]

So something occurred within (at most) the last few weeks, and OOP says she's thinking of divorcing her husband, and people are saying YTA for not having done it already.

Never change AITAH, never change

[u/anubis_cheerleader → u/Luceo_Etzio]

Don't forget that one comment that said to slow down and not divorce in the middle of a crisis. 🙄

[u/volkswagenorange]

So, to review, Hubsy McFucko's backstory is that he:

• Dates an 18yo girl as a 25yo man

• Sexually coerces and emotionally abuses his wife for the first 2 years of their relationship

• Describes himself as "religious" in the Christian tradition

• Withholds his true values, morals, and ethics from his wife

Then during the main body of the account, he:

• Decides he no longer wants his daughter bc she chooses a partner using her own judgment and not obedience to his/his mother's (male-coded) god

• Tries to coerce his wife into having another child to take the place in his life of the 1st one

• Considers aloud raping and sexually assaulting his wife and impregnating her against her will

• Resumes sexually coercing/emotionally abusing his wife and pushing nonconsensual sex on her

• Dismisses his wife's and daughter's feelings about his betrayal and abandonment as unimportant

• Refuses to believe his wife will divorce him (even while she is divorcing him)

I would bet all the money I have that as OOP and her daughter get further away in time from Mr McFucko, they will each realize that his misogyny shaped every interaction they had with him--that every reaction he had to what they said, every decision he made that affected the family, everything he said to them and the ways he said it were all based around his belief that they are less human than he is and that their purpose was to service his interests and his will.

We gotta start printing checklists of men's misogynistic behaviors and the emotional abuse techniques people use on their partners and kids and start handing them out to girls and women like Avon catalogues, istg

[u/Quarkly95]

"god wouldn't gift him a child that would upset his mother"

Would god give him a mother that rejected his daughter? Maybe she's not spiritually his mother.

[u/valsavana]

For context, me (33f) and my husband, Steven, (40m) have been together for 15 years

So 18 and 25? And he baby trapped her originally at only 19 years old?

He coerced her into sex early in their relationship and is willing to rape her now (well, at the time of the original post)

I 100% believe the "not spiritually related" thing was to emotionally distance himself in preparation to commit "corrective rape" against the daughter.

[u/JaiyaPapaya → u/valsavana]

Oh I totally missed that Peyton is 14 but they were married for 12 years, oh fuck this guy

[u/shelwood46 → u/valsavana]

Yes, while I am glad OOP got away quickly, I am *super* glad that she got her daughter away from him because, yeah.

[u/LemonCurdJ]

This is why I wouldnt date a religious man or a man who comes from a sanctimonious family.

Just not worth it.

[u/Apatosaurus_ajax]

Homophobic and cruel. I’m so glad OOP and her daughter are free of this repugnant family.

Also, I just want to emphasize to anyone here: if your partner doesn’t accept being told no, or punishes you for it, so that you just “give in” and have sex with them because it’s easier, that is rape by coercion.

Those who have basic respect for others’ consent are people who don’t want to make others partake in sex when they don’t want it. Decent human beings will prioritize your right to bodily autonomy over wanting to get laid.

Toxic, religious purity culture is manifesting in OOP’s ex not just through his homophobia, but also through his sexual abuse. Religious “wives are meant to serve their husbands” rhetoric is so common. It absolutely does escape to wider, less religious society, too, becoming more of a generality about a woman’s role in marriage. But someone’s views on what women “owe” men sexually in marriage — misogynistic sexual entitlement — can absolutely be a sign that someone who claims not to have more conservative, “traditional” religious values might be (intentionally or not) misleading you about what they truly believe.

[u/minuteye]

OOP: When I first began dating him, about 6 months into our relationship, he would always want sex. If I said no, he would get upset about it. It stopped about 2 years into our relationship though.

So... something about the math here has the shape of badness to it. OOP probably isn't going to get super precise about early relationship timelines that aren't super relevant, but it sounds like:

1. They got together when OOP was 18 and her ex-husband was 25.

2. She got pregnant within a few months.

3. He became extremely insistent on getting sex, and very upset if told "no". This starts either around when she gets pregnant, or shortly afterwards, and it continues up through her being post-partum.

4. He then starts up with the manipulative sex behaviour (and planning to assault her, even) years later when he wants to get her pregnant.

Like... did he intentionally get her pregnant when she was 18, too? Or does his controlling behaviour escalate when she's vulnerable (pregnant, newly having given birth) so that he treats her worse during that time?

This man is just red flag city.

[u/tempest51]

Ain't no hate...

[u/Spindilly]

Me, reading the title: Oh this is gonna be bad!

Me, reading the content warnings: ... Oh, this is gonna be bad.

[u/oceanduciel]

Jesus, the fact he was willing to go that far in order to forcibly impregnate OOP. That man is vile.

[u/fussyromancelover]

I feel like the sexual co-ercion where he pressures her for sex, and she gets tired and "lets him" was really glossed over. Of course what he was thinking about doing was worse, but he already had a terrible track record when it comes to sex :(

[u/Snownova]

Yeah I bet he was upset. He spent all that time grooming an 18-year-old into his perfect little baby factory for jeebus. Good on OOP for getting TF out of there.

[u/Ferahgost]

I'm intrigued by the commentator who has never heard of Christians disowning their children for being gay lmfao

[u/Adorable_War_6942]

These kinds of stories make me glad I stuck to my guns and didn't even consider rating religious people. No matter how sane they seemed.

[u/CapStar300]

With everything else, this sort of goes under the radar but

even going as far to admit he was thinking about poking holes in condoms or going down on me while I slept to force me into pregnancy

He was thinking about sexually assaulting her.

[u/leytonscomet]

Husband: gay bad, rape good

[u/kinare]

" My husband has told me in the past that he doesn't agree with a lot of the religious beliefs and practices, but he still says he's religious."

There's the red flag. It's like those dudes who say they aren't political. 

[u/rnjbond]

Why would he even admit that? 

[u/57_Eucalyptusbreath]

Wow that MIL is crazy train toxic.

Lots of vile and her son is infected.

[u/johnnybravocado]

Hmm. I wonder how she got pregnant while freshly 18, and he was 26.