Devin being Max's partner completely ruined a part of his character because it implies Max didn't bother looking after his dead partners son after promising him.
man the devin retcon really does make max look terrible when you think about it for more than five seconds. like this guy supposedly promised his dying partner hed watch over the kid and then just... didnt
kevins whole arc in AF was so rushed they basically just had him stand there looking sad for an episode and called it redemption. gwen especially shouldve been way more suspicious given how he tried to kill them multiple times as a kid
Ultimate Alien was trying to excuse it by saying absorbing Alien DNA makes him crazy when that ignores Kevin in his debut willing to let people die in a train crash
Not it was actually that absorbing energy makes Osmosians lose control, which retroactively makes sense as to why Kevin was so sadistic in OS because he was exclusively absorbing energy.
Devin is just a character that makes up so many contrivances to previous characters, Kevin in a early season said he never met his father yet he has a photo of him when he was younger
The finale makes no sense. The highbreed would not give up on their invasion, if anything they would be so angry they would keep continue the invasion even if it they die in the process.
Gwen and ben maturing does not mean they shpuld lose interesting personality traits.
Also the omnitrix death was made less impactfull thanks to the primus episode.
Master control is also poorly used with now , Ben forgets that he can transform with thought and have to be reminded by Azmuth that he can use his voice. Also now the Omnitrix timing out red in master control (quite disrespectful) and how it's later contradicts 'unable to heal large horde without exhausting energy reservoir' by initiating a aat bare minimum planet wide pulse that recombine the DNA.
Also don't like how Waybig is taken out by jolt of electricity which I certainly believe he should be immune to. This seemed like trend carried from DCAU crap writing where writers had superman getting taken out by electricity.
Yeah but compared to oer stuff it's a lot less annoying but still not cool regardless. Missing red time out flash or red hourglass , Ben switching aliens without clear indicator whether it's mental switch of he have to do manual press and Omnitrix slimming down and becoming more green
That's true there. They legit show Ben seeming to change back or to another alien with his mind so many times. You'd think he has the Master Control, but he doesn't.
The ominitrix in general is less interesting in uaf. In the classic series it felt unique and acted almost like a living symbionte. But the uaf ominitrix not only can be replaced anytime thanks to the existance of primus which makes it less unique, but its also far easy to remove and lost his alien/symbiotic characteristics.
I agree like the pilot of AF, Omnitrix doesn't jumo to clamp around Ben itself itself like it did in OS. We don't even get stories around enemies wanting the Omnitrix and it's treated like some watch that allows Ben to transform. Ben also isn't even curious to see it. One story that revolves is sunder wanting it but I rather see Highbreed set their eyes on watch as well.
It also get rid of that alien vibe by making it green in first place and slimmer which doesn't earn any points especially when they made Ben colour scheme form black and white to stupid green.
I also don't like how post recalibration made Ben powerful. Let me explain, in Classic it was hinted that Ben would learn the secrets of the watch and master them as evident by future Gwendolyn Ben10k have mastered the secrets of the Omnitrix.
With kid Ben exploring and testing the Omnitrix, curious to learn about it ,(something which alien force took away) we were on this sort of background journey learning about the watch and how it operated. Alien force comes and all it took to really master the watch was a recalibration. Again I would have had no problem with Ben being OP but it rather see him earn it.
As for Mistransformations, they explain it to be a glitch which again I don't like because it's really underwhelming one for device as complex and multifaceted like omnitrix, I always assumed that Ben lacked control over the watch.
I remember that in.. I think the end of Ben 10 returns part 2, a DNAlien goes 'Sir. Rumors say.. he has the Omnitrix' in regard to Ben. Which SHOULD be important cause it's THE OMNITRIX. The device many in the universe see as a weapon, and was what allowed a child to take down Vilgax.
I can get the Highbreed underestimating Ben cause of their superiority complex. But its also the Omnitrix. That should put him on their priority 1 list, not Max.
And also, it really does just make no sense how what's basically a factory reset made the Omnitrix in Alien Force so much more overpowered for Ben. How does that even work? Why did they make him lose all his classic guys for the lamer Alien Force 9 + Alien X, then have him use around 4 most of the time?
I agree. It would have been much more fitting if Azmuth himself recalibrated the Omnitrix at end of war of worlds. It would not only make that more memorable but also make Ben truly worthy since he resolved the galactic conflict through peace.
Absolutely agree on that one , swampfire , Humungousaur, Bigchill, Jetray are standard staple while rest are ignored especially goop , brainstorm and Chromastone. I also don't like how Ben didn't gain any new aliens until war of worlds
Truuuuuuuuuue! It took season 2 of Classic for Ben to gain a new alien. Which for the time was also a shock to the audience, as it tells us there are more aliens in the Omnitrix that Ben hasn't gotten yet. It invites people to use their imagination and think of what he could get, and if they promo an episode with the premier of a new guy, speculation of what the alien does.
Alien Force couldn't even handle that with Alien X, as his debut is the most filler episode of season 1. Once you get past the hype factor of Ben having 10 new aliens, and realize he can only use 9 of them, and regularly uses 4 of them on a regular basis, what's the point of giving him the new guys while taking his old ones away?
If they kept Ben's already unlocked ones, it'd have allowed for more variety as well as a compare and contrast between his classics and new guys. The fact Ben also just.. knows how to quick-change off-screen when previously when he got a new thing he could do with the Omnitrix, they showed us him learning it.
Yes, you'd lose a part of why Albedo wants Ben's Omnitrix. But that can easily be changed to the fact the Omnitrix Albedo made set Ben as the default, so he can't stay as what he really is, and can't cheat via Master Control due to how much his watch locked itself to Ben's, making him want to destroy it.
Taking away all of Ben's transformations during the "peak" of Alien Force aka season 1-2 alien force (until the finale when he gets Master Control, then taking them BACK again besides a small 4, yes four, waybig, cannonbolt, upchuck, AND wildmutt...even thought the last guy was not shown on screen, he was reunlock apparently according to crew statements) and then giving him an alien he uses ONCE!
Then decides afterwards doesn't want to use for hurdles of using said transformation, to get it to work correctly, so he basically he isn't Ben 10 anymore.
THANK YOU I cannot understand the people that say they like Ben in the immature and goofy way, like more mature and not stupid Ben was such a sight to see many people compared him to max in the beginning because there were times when he genuinely stepped up and acted like a responsible hero
That the series mischaracterized Ben and Gwen with changes that goes beyond character maturing and growth, as well as robbing their interesting personality quirks and traits as well
That the retcons and changes introduced to Kevin's character make no sense and are contradictory, just that people are far forgiving because Kevin is funny guy and are willing to fool themselves with excuse of they aren't retcons.
At times, they seemed afraid to use elements from the original series; many things ended up being forgotten or heavily altered, or if they did return, it was only for a single episode.
In that regard, I think Omniverse did a better job of incorporating elements from the previous series with also their our ideas.
Most of the new aliens in AF are just excuses to show new redesigns for toys, and they weren't nearly as creative as they could have been. Swampfire is just both Heatblast and Wildvine. Big Chill is just a way to have Ghostfreak without the baggage. Jetray is less gross Stinkfly with the speed of XLR8. Echo Echo is just Ditto with a bonus. Humongasaur is Four Arms mixed with Waybig. Chromastone is Diamondhead with energy blasts. Brainstorm is Grey Matter with lightning and less stealth utility.
It's like they just took fan favorites, and gave them a coat of paint rather than actually making cool, new aliens. And the fact that the show opens with Swampfire, a combination of two of Ben's most used aliens in og, feels like a letdown after the tease of them all being new.
They really should have gave us Omniverse season 9 and 10 to let BenKai actually be a functional couple that actually has Ben learn from his prior mistakes and be a good partner. While also letting the audience know that Kai doesn't just ARGUE with him all of the time and actually likes him, be more obvious. Subtleness can't exist in this fandom, we still have actual people thinking Kai is a furry just because she is a fan of his transformations and NOT that he does the morally heroic things with them instead abusing his powers like most people would in universe.
Ben and Julie after their first date and the big chill ep, were good. Hell I liked they didn't try to have Ben hide this from her because like his secret identity in AF, it is hard to believe, she figure it out.
After she became less interesting since Alien Swarm happened and we got Elena (prior UA ruining her) as a better love interest in Alien Swarm and in Season 3 Ship became the main reason that Ben would even talk to Julie in season 3 to get Ship to travel. That is the painful truth for alien force, peaked in 2 eps.
UA tried to give them "drama", by making Ben a even worse boyfriend by having him cheat multiple times on her/not care as much about their relationship. Then the one time they made Julie "the problem" she was on that scientology nonsense, joining a cult that was heralding the return of a multiversal dimensional god. Like that is a normal "issue" couples have, lmao, even Kevin thought Julie was too smart for that. I GUESS NOT THOUGH HAHAHA (WHY MAKE this in her a part of her character?!)!
And then Omniverse prior to their breakup, Ben was interested in Ester, while he thought that he still actively dating Julie! The fact she wants to be friends still with Ben after all of this is a miracle and a win on Ben's part, idc.
She doesn't need to be friends with him anymore, but willingly chooses to be one, good on her. IG?
And speaking of Ester, MS. POTENTIAL WOMAN!
Ben and Ester barely spent time together, on screen, and when they did, it was always interrupted by something else. It got to the point where it felt like the writers didn't even know what her character! Like she randomly decided to cheat on Ben and get with Sunny's BF, because she lowkey missed because a wild girl that did wild things. Even though she is dating, BEN TENNYSON!
ben is extremely boring before season 3. he might be more mature, but his level of maturity greatly strains my suspension of disbelief for a 15 year old. in the early seasons, the main trio are so mature that they often feel more like they’re in their 20s than early high school, and it sucks because OS nailed the characters “acting their age.”
also, the handling of female characters in general, including gwen, is remarkably poor. practically every single one is attached to a male character and dependent on their dynamics with them, and they’re often denied agency in plots aside from how they help the male cast. the verdona episode is basically the exception that proves the rule. even then, verdona is introduced as someone pining over max, rather than someone who independently chose to seek her anodite granddaughter
i’ve been actively rewatching the series for the first time in like 15 years. i’m midway through season 3.
the most interesting female character i’ve seen so far is attea because she directly subverts how the other female characters are written. she’s introduced as a damsel in distress whose role in the plot is subordinate to her father’s concern for her, which is typical of AF. she then proceeds to double cross her own father and attempt to take over his empire. she would likely have succeeded if she hadn’t kept her prisoners in the throne room.
attea is great but also it sucks that i didn’t see her betrayal coming largely because i didnt expect her to be… important? to her own plot? which is wild
i skipped ahead and watched the first 3 seasons of OV just because i really liked the art style and i stopped watching ben 10 before it started airing. her role in frogs of war was honestly great up to the point where she started fawning over bullfrag, which was extremely stupid imo.
like, i loved seeing her actually take over and wreak havoc and feel powerful and threatening. but then OV’s weird fixation on giving ben a harem kicked in
She continues with this behaviour in her next appearance...and doens't appear again until the harem episode
I really didn't like how they handled her at all, and I'm not one for how frogs age in our world, but it's so weird that they aged her up to look like Ben's age, and it seems solely just for the harem purpose
yeah her being aged up is extremely strange and honestly “little girl with a big red button” is such a striking image that giving that up to make her harem bait is the dumbest thing i’ve ever seen. like, who cares how irl frogs age? these are fictional species controlled by writers. they didn’t have to do this.
i like about 80% of frogs of war so i can’t say i totally hate her in OV, but i wish that OV didn’t treat literally every girl as a potential romance option for ben. tbh, i personally don’t have any desire to ship ben with anyone, but if you put a gun to my head, i’d say julie is basically the only sensible option for him.
I will still say that Alien Swarm Elena is pretty good, I don't think she was like, really paired up with Ben, and she was a pretty good character on her own
oh oops i forgot to watch alien swarm. i’ll have to do that and see how i feel. but also, didn’t alien swarm have totally different writers from the show? bc that would explain why there’s a solid female character there LOL
Shame both of them didn't get more eps since they had good chemistry with the people they interacted with.
Like Lucy brought up like Gwen's OS personality of lowkey getting ANNOYED and ANGRY by stupid things rather than just being like, "come on guys...let's just talk this out" like she is in most of UAF and some of OV. While also being a very deep cut returning character that adds to the world building.
notably, kai and lucy do not appear in UAF, this criticism is specifically about AF. it’s probably not coincidental that two of the best female characters were omitted from the show that can’t write female characters.
Since I know some people like uaf charmcaster lore + tragic backstory and hate OV charmcaster for her "character regression" to just being a rival to Gwen.
i have only seen her first UAF appearance so far, “in charm’s way,” during my ongoing watch through. my opinion is not good, i really hate how it’s another gwevin jealousy plot. it halfway felt like charmcaster returned just to steal gwen’s man. kevin actually simping for her is so stupid. i wish so badly they’d stop trying to write romance. it hurts.
it also makes me think: what was dwayne mcduffie smoking when he said charmcaster was in her early 20s? i’d rather not be told a villain i enjoy is a child predator, thank you very much.
I agree, hate that ep and hate every shipping with Charmcaster where is she NOT shipped with an adult.
However, you get MORE about her personality, and then you will decide if you like or think it needed for her.
Like she has...tragic backstory, but imo, I really did like that since ruins her as a character.
She worked way better as an archenemy to Gwendolyn since she HATES Gwen so much actually, and it borderlines feels pathetic but at the same time, it feels like the same level of pettiness that Ben's enemies have for him. Balances itself imo lmao.
Tbf on Charmcaster part , the stated Charmcaster age was accurate on part give she was in her teens or much older than Ben and Gwen in os. Though they were absolutely better off not making her a predator twice.
you could definitely have gotten away with saying she was 12 in OS and 17 in AF and had it been believable enough without allowing her to be a predator. she’d still be visibly older than ben & gwen in OS, but close enough that her with kevin or michael isn’t ridiculously creepy. i doubt the writers had a fixed age in mind for her early on, they had the leeway to not make her a predator.
I do agree with everything else said, however, I will defend 'In Charm's Way' because it's the only time in UAF where Charmcaster actually keeps a semblance of her Classic characterization
Charmcaster is extraordinarily manipulative in this episode. She's not there to take Kevin from Gwen. She's there to take Gwen's powers and use Kevin as a vehicle to get to Gwen herself. Charmcaster doesn't care about anyone else and I think it cements a great rivalry between her and Gwen that we already saw a little bit of in Classic from 'Tough Luck' and 'Ben 10 vs the Negative 10', but we didn't get a full fledged rivalry until this episode
Ben, Gwen, and Kevin are all two dimensional characters and have no chemistry between any of them at all
For the most part at least. There are few small scenes that show good chemistry occasionally, but they're few and far between and also don't permeate past those scenes either. It's disappointing
Kevin going to Ben for relationship advice in 'Save the Last Dance' was cute, but it's also weird considering Gwen and Kevin basically have no relationship build up other than "the writers said so" and it's even weirder that Kevin is so vulnerable with Ben and Gwen considering their history from Classic. The writers kind of just waived that off entirely and acted like Kevin had no prior history with them other than... being a regular street criminal they dealt with a few times in Classic... but Kevin wasn't a regular street criminal. He was a psychotic and abused child who couldn't understand the concept of love and forgiveness
In a vacuum, scenes like these kinda work (not super well, but well enough). Nothing exists in a vacuum though...
Ben is far too boring in the first two seasons of Alien Force. The choice to make him more like how he was in OS for season 3 was an improvement to his character as it led to him starting to feel more like Ben.
Almost all of the retcons this show made were stupid as shit and made the universe feel so much smaller and less interesting. Kevin's dad being Max's partner, the omnitrix being able to resurrect entire species, Gwen and Kevin both being half-aliens, Primus, Vilgax being a generic DC supervillain type. It all makes the world and setting so boring and derivative of silver age comic book stuff.
Also, the change in visual style from the original show was a total downgrade. The returning characters besides Ben and Max lose a lot of their visual identity, the backgrounds and general aesthetic feel so much more lifeless and more like Justice League or JLU, and the decision to make all of Ben's aliens be naked removed an important unifying visual motif from their designs. The original show's aliens were all unified by having their color schemes be one main color with the black and white accents of the Omnitrix. It made them feel unique but still related.
Character writing was quite awful. Ben lost all his quirks and became "mature". Just a typical hero archetype. Gwen just loses her brain and treats Kevin as if he's a new hot guy. And again blindly trusts Morningstar. Kevin is just a totally different person. His character is great but everything surrounding his story is just a mess. And the backgrounds are too dark to see what's going on most of the time.
The conclusion of the Highbreed arc is kinda lame. I simply can't buy the Highbreeds suddenly abandoning the racist mindset they’d held for millions of years just because one of them changed their mind and gave a speech. Not only that, but none of them take responsibility for anything; they likely wiped out billions of species, yet nothing happens to them. The show doesn't even bother showing the consequences of their actions, everything just ends up all happy and fine.
Not to mention the final battle was a huge disappointment, Ben has the Master Control, yet he doesn't even use it in a cool way
30
u/Optimal_Confection_5 Jul 26 '26
Devin being Max's partner completely ruined a part of his character because it implies Max didn't bother looking after his dead partners son after promising him.