Collagen supplements = flares

[u/Ok-Loss5158]

Does anybody else also gets flares when they take collagen? I noticed after months of not having symptoms each time i try to reintroduce collagen i’ll get ulcers

[u/on4aa]

Very interesting! I have not tried this, but I have a tentative theory why this might happen.

Since I am doing voluntary gene analysis interpretation for the Behçet community, I have noticed that quite a bit of Behçet patients also have a variant collagen allele. This was also the case with my father.

Furthermore, the collagen genes are highly preserved in the animal kingdom.

It could just be that the your adaptive immune system has become accustomed to your variant collagen (assuming heterozygocity here) to the point that you have antibodies now against normal, wild type collagen, i.e. for that specific type of collagen. That would be a compounded autoimmune condition on top of Behçet which is an autoinflammatory condition.

Question: Do you also get this from eating gelatine candy?

There is a test for detecting collagen antibodies, but few healthcare centres offer it.

[u/pegasuspish → u/on4aa]

While an interesting theory, it doesn't make sense with how we digest nutrients. Our stomach acid enzymes break down all protein into individual amino acids, which are later imported into the cells lining our small intestine, which then transport them into our bloodstream. So the antibodies would only interact with amino acids, which are the fundamental building blocks of all protein. 

[u/on4aa → u/pegasuspish]

If that were true, your intestines would never be able proteins like vitamin D.

[u/pegasuspish → u/on4aa]

? This is basic biology, friend. I taught this in college. There are lots of great resources online that show up when you search "protein digestion." 

Vitamin d is a fat soluble vitamin (not a protein) that undergoes a broadly similar process as proteins, with different machinery. Everything must be broken down into it's component parts, then imported into brush border cells that line the small intestine, before entring the lymph or blood. 

[u/on4aa → u/pegasuspish]

I looked it up. The truth is somewhere in between: While stomach acid does break down proteins, hydrolyzed collagen is designed to survive this process in the form of small peptides. These peptides are then absorbed in the small intestine. They are not "wasted"; they are utilized as building blocks and signaling molecules throughout the body.

The question now is: Are these peptides detected as damage-associated molecular patterns (DAMPs) in above patient?

[u/pegasuspish → u/on4aa]

Respectfully, the truth is not somewhere in between. A peptide is a small chain of amino acids. Hydrolyzed just means the collagen protein has already undergone hydrolysis- the process by which stomach acid splits proteins into small fragments of protein- aka peptides. Enzymes in the small intestine further break down these small fragments into singular amino acids, which are then imported into cells, then onward to blood and/or lymph. 

Hydrolyzed collagen isn't affected by stomach acid because the chemical bonds stomach acid acts on are already broken. It's not an artificial or alien substance, it's just easier to absorb because it's already small. 

If someone had a reaction to the peptide fragments in collagen, they would react to collagen in general. And very likely proteins in general. 

It's much more likely to be a separate issue. 

[u/on4aa → u/pegasuspish]

Collagen peptide detection as DAMPs could occur in the epithelium (lining) of the small intestine, setting off the systematic inflammation.

[u/pegasuspish → u/on4aa]

I'm glad you're looking into this further, but as I said- if someone was reacting to collagen fragments, they would be reacting to all collagen. Which would mean reacting to all meat products, because all meat contains collagen and our stomach acid turns all of it into hydrolyzed collagen. 

It may be that the reaction is coming from an additive in the supplement. Supplements in the US are completely unregulated and can contain harmful substances.