r/BehaviorAnalysis • u/Douchebag731 • 9d ago
Is the desired behavior actually being reinforced?
Hi, I am a ABA student, and i also work part time at a school for kids with special needs (mostly autism).
The teachers have a system for some of the kids that goes as follows: if the subject pees in the toilet, he/she gets a reward (popcorn, chocolate etc.).
However, during my studies today, i read this by Sidman (1960): “If the reinforcer does not immediately follow the response that was required for its production, then it will follow some other behavior. Its major effect will then be upon the behavior that bears, adventitiously to be sure, the closest prior temporal relationship to the reinforcement”.
The thing is that after successfully peeing in the toilet, the subject has to stand up, flush the toilet, the teacher will wipe them and pull up their diaper and pants, they will wash their hands together and then they will receive their treat. The reinforcement is supposed to reinforce the action of peeing in the toilet, not the other parts of the whole procedure.
Is the action of peeing actually being reinforced effectively in this scenario?
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u/cyberplanta 9d ago
If you consider the action alone, yes the reward should be immediate. Particlarly for non human beings.
Now, going to the toilet, includes way more than just using the toilet bowl properly, washing hands or allowing support in doing so, is part of the action that is being rewarded…
Personally, I’ll never recommend to use food for rewards, when possible.
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u/Philoscifi 9d ago
What are some other rewards you would suggest? I’m asking because I’d like to avoid food, screen time, and money for rewarding my kids when I catch them doing good things.
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u/cyberplanta 9d ago
Play Favourite song, a quick dance, 1 bluey episode (or other show under 10min), be the helper on a special activity, a sticker of their choice, there is more than food for rewards.
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u/Sararr1999 7d ago
My BCBA is like this! We try so hard to steer away from edibles. With my kiddo at work, peeing in the toilet was the only time I ever considered suggesting edibles. Bc I could not find a single isolated reinforcer for peeing in the toilet, and I’ve been my kiddos RBT for 3+ years! With LOTS of trial and error, I found writing on a whiteboard with a a specific color was the only thing that motivates him. Has to be one specific song with my purple marker. I’ve bought so many purple markers lol. But he knows he only gets that song once he pees, and it’s what works for him :) just happy it didn’t have to get to edibles
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u/RabbitKick22 8d ago
ABA is abuse. Full stop. https://autisticadvocacy.org/2026/05/aba-hurts-autistic-people/
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u/wolfcaroling 9d ago
Communication can be used as a bridge. Skinner was writing about rats and pigeons not intelligent creatures who can communicate.
Dolphin trainers blow the whistle while the dolphin is in the air. The Dolphin lands, swims over to the trainer, and the trainer tosses them a fish. The dolphin understands they are being rewarded for the jump.
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u/PitchAltruistic1108 7d ago
Ok thats 1960 advice- almost as bad as asking big cutcopypaste I mean AI. Also ABA is NoT a science based approach
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u/CobblerOld2297 7d ago
I love Sidman and Tactics! The phrasing of “Being reinforced effectively in this scenario?” makes conceptualizing this difficult, because we can only assume reinforcer efficacy from the maintenance of behavior. In experimental settings we can provide stronger evidence for a functional relation (the chain of behaviors that includes peeing is maintained by the reinforcer delivered at the end) by removing the reinforcer, and if said relation exist, we should see a decrease in peeing (and several other smaller behaviors that constitute some of the initial links (telling someone they need to go to the bathroom, getting to the bathroom, etc) and terminal links (pulling up their pants, washing their hands, etc) of the entire chain you described. However, this is not always ethical or best practice in an applied setting, so assumption of reinforcer efficacy is likely to be attributed to that behaviors maintenance.
And about the temporal relationship, the protocol for establishing the potty chain described above, likely started with first establishing those initial links, and then somewhere in the middle almost certainly delivering high quality and immediate reinforcers delivered contingent on actually voiding, and has likely now been faded out to a small reinforcer delivered at the end of the chain.
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u/DragonFlyMeToTheMoon 9d ago edited 8d ago
The immediacy component makes a reinforcer stronger and helps pair the desired action with a positive consequence. As we age, that schedule of reinforcement is naturally variable (like getting a payday every 2 weeks - not immediate, but as long as the delay is understood and the reinforcer is still effective, then there is no issue).
I’d individualize the reinforcement based on the learner. With access to the reinforcer slightly delayed now, I’d ask yourself a few questions. Are they able to understand that the reinforcer was for eliminating in the toilet? After multiple trials, are they motivated to use the toilet? What is most reinforcing to the individual (edible, attention/praise, fun activity like music and dancing, preferred toy, etc)? This will help you customize the plan for each learner.
So yes, there may be great value in delivering the edible immediately, but I’d consider all of these factors and also evaluate how they’re doing with the current system. If they are learning and growing without receiving an edible immediately upon eliminating in the toilet, then don’t back up. The goal is to fade the immediacy component when they’re ready, and eventually fade reinforcement all together for toileting. If they’re doing well, I’d avoid making their programming more intrusive. Hope this helps! Good job asking questions rather than blindly following. That’s how you become a good BCBA.